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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:14:00 -
[1]
The great ôjovianö mining laser scandal
Though I am somewhat loath to post out of character on the issue, itÆs clear that a problem has arisen in this item becoming available to players. The devchat log widely publicised elsewhere reveals the way this happened, and from the sequence of events described therein I can not see any attempt to exploit or cheat. The circumstance which led to this was the presence of a GM mining ship in the game universe equipped with an item not intended for play, whilst being vulnerable to damage capable of placing the item into play.
The destruction of said ship, the salvage of said item, and the fencing of said item all appear to be valid actions spurred by main chance and opportunistic play.
Now my involvement in this is limited to writing in-character press releases for TTI/Venal and thus in-character I was given certain information and asked to make a press release on the basis of what I had been told.
The fictional piece ôVenal at Duskö was my source material.
The press release ôVenal Alliance sees the early benefits of Jovian tradeö was my own in character work.
Clearly this is not a great PR triumph for TTI, and not one of my great moments either, but in public relations you have to work with what you are given and in this case the raw material was a bit poor!
But I donÆt think it was an exploit though, merely a chance acquisition of tech that shouldnÆt have been in the game. In the future I think TTI will have learned a lesson which is valuable to the entire player base about checking legitimacy of finds before going full tilt with publicity campaigns.
At the time of writing that press release I personally believed the story of jovian agents and tech trade à more fool me perhaps à but hey, it was an honest mistake, I was thinking that perhaps the devs had decided to let an example hitech item into the game as a taster of future jovian relevations.
Anyhow à once the GMÆs remove the item from the game I will write another IC press release in the Intergalactic Summit forum to cover the unfortunate event and hopefully try to salvage something from the fiasco à ce la vie!
All IÆd ask is that people calm down a bit, read the devlog, and realise what happened. It has been a rotten stinking fiasco à but it was a relatively honest rotten stinking fiasco!
All the best à
JF Public Forum |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:18:00 -
[2]
I think the item should be deleted if it was never ment to be in game.
I do not understand the reasoning of the GM for using this illegal item in the first place. And he should probably be talked to about do such things in the future.
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Stavros
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:19:00 -
[3]
dont bother rp'ing it. This item is and this incident is clearly ooc in terms of rp and to try and cover it is to make yourself look stupid.
Stav
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"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Lonewulf
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:27:00 -
[4]
Why would a GM be mining anyway?  And why once his ship was so conveniently destroyed in proximity to TTI didn't he simply make sure the tech was recovered if he was worried about game balance. Sure a lot of people are ****ed off that such obvious favoritism is being displayed by GM's.. but if you really think about it TTI probably benefitted very very little from it in the grand scheme of things. I mean.. any corp that has mass mining ops with apocs doesn't really benefit much from having a single laser with uber stats.
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PussyCat
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:31:00 -
[5]
I Think It's bull****. Roark that Produces bs wanted 2 buy minerals from me SO why buy minerals from me when he easly could mine all that ****.
2003.08.03 01:48:00
*****cat I could not help but notice I have not received that shipment of around 20 mil in minerals I requested.ØØSince then, my inventory has changed (of course), so I need something differentØØ20 million Trit (at 1.4)Ø4 million Pyrite (at 5)Ø250K Isogen (at 64)ØØ
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:32:00 -
[6]
Well i just want to know what hes doing flying around on Tranq with that kinda ship period.
If they cant interfere with the game world like they keep saying... well, they are either lying, or this GM was major breaking the rules.
If hes testing, he should be on Chaos. Thats what its for isnt it?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:38:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the personal update Jade.
As good in RL as in RP.
For the "sake" of continuity and the awkward naming of a dev in the piece might it not be best for all concerned if the entirety of the Press Releases be removed?
Certainly I think this would retain the "integrity" of the RP forum more than adding to the obvious RL-scandal of the incident.
Ive already stated elsewhere that ive no intention of raising it in MDW as it crosses the boundary of game-politics and eve-politics.
A small, discreet burial might better serve us all?
A suggestion only.
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Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:39:00 -
[8]
Just how many lasers was it anyway? I was under the impression it was only one.. but from the dev chat they said it was multiple lasers. And how long did they use them?
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:48:00 -
[9]
Jade, don't let anyone make you feel bad about having a little fun with your press release. :) I liked it.
I cannot believe there are people who actually make a fuss over a single stinking mining laser! It's amazing that people were actually jealous enough to throw fits about something so utterly insignificant to them.
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Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:56:00 -
[10]
I think it is only pretty god damned fair that I as all of you get to use mining lasers like that one for the same friggin time as TTI, if the rich only gets richer because of some friggin cheating GM then f$%k you ccp, it was favoritism and you bloody well know it, I would like to have 40 million isk transfered to my wallet since I think that would sum up to the amount I would mine for with lasers like that, or just for selling the lasers.
Spawn of the Devil
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 07/08/2003 03:02:26
 Quote:
Thanks for the personal update Jade.
No problem m'dear; this has all been dreadfully embarrassing ;)
Quote:
As good in RL as in RP.
You constant flatterer sir!
Quote:
For the "sake" of continuity and the awkward naming of a dev in the piece might it not be best for all concerned if the entirety of the Press Releases be removed?
I'm in two minds ... on the one hand yes, its been a fiasco and has crossed into ooc realms due to the intervention of GMs (both in the accidental release of the item, and the recent disappearence of the item from theTTI hanger)
But, on the other, fiction has been written and in-game actions were taken. The item did enter the game universe, it was looted, it was fenced and it was tested by TTI.
Now I might have been lied too in game by TTI on the number of beams and the significance of
the find, but it was an in-game lie, and I produced an in-game release on the basis. Now the disappearence of the item will create another in-game circumstance to be handled by a dauntless mercenary public relations guerilla ... so ... dunno ... I'm not decided as to the best course.
Quote:
Certainly I think this would retain the "integrity" of the RP forum more than adding to the obvious RL-scandal of the incident.
Like I say, maybe so, maybe not ... all this does stem from something that actually happened after all.
Quote:
Ive already stated elsewhere that ive no intention of raising it in MDW as it crosses the boundary of game-politics and eve-politics.
I appreciate the thought, really, its nice to know you are prepared to make discerning choices in such matters m'dear - sensible and adult approach.
Quote:
A small, discreet burial might better serve us all?
I just don't know really, can't make my mind up ...
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:02:00 -
[12]
Its not a fuss when GMs start doing stuff like this, its a genuine concern
I dont care about a miner 1, but what if it was a Heavy Beam laser 5? or a Neurton blaster cannon 5?
Thinks like this start, and it becomes a major exploitable offense.
How would you like to die from 4 shots of a cruiser?
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:05:00 -
[13]
I thought the same thing, that maybe the game developers had thought of a way to ease a new piece of equipment into the game by letting someone get lucky. Oh well.
Anyway, your press releases were creative and interesting Jade. No harm done and keep up the good work.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:12:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Jade, don't let anyone make you feel bad about having a little fun with your press release. :) I liked it.
Thankyou Setec, its cool. All a bit of storm in a teacup ... I can see why people got worked up (the potentially cheating exploit-driven acquisition of hitech items is a concern) But in this case a lot of people jumped to quite hostile conclusions ... and it seemed something of a witchhunt.
Still I'm sure we'll wake up wiser in the morning ;)
JF Public Forum |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:17:00 -
[15]
Well, i dont know about other people, but i never had a problem with TTI, or your press releases.
In fact, i think your RP'n is great Jade, and i hope you keep it up.
People i guess just dont like the idea of someone getting something they cant get.
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Indesin
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:24:00 -
[16]
This is the Days of Our Lives.
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Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:25:00 -
[17]
HOW MANT TIMES MUST I SAY THIS--
Someone logged onto the game, a noob, with nothing. Not in TTi.
Instead of a basic miner, there was a Nibelung Particle Bore V.
This person kept it secret for a while. Then he decided to sell it to make a quick buck which anyone would do if they had nothing.
They sold it and it has probably been through a few hands.
Nobody has cheated and nobody has been given it off a GM AND nobody has got it off a Jove.
Thats if there is ONLY one.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 07/08/2003 03:34:58
Sorry this is all a bit Off-Topic really:
Quote:
I thought the same thing, that maybe the game developers had thought of a way to ease a new piece of equipment into the game by letting someone get lucky. Oh well.
The whole MOG industry is well aware of the pitfalls associated with introducing items into the game "directly" - its a nightmare scenario.
Certainly other games i have been "associated with" worked on a general principle that "an item can only go to "anybody" if "anybody" could have gotten it"
This essentially means you do it through an event which "anybody" can attend, or in EVE utilise the Agent system.
You never, ever, give items to players directly - indeed its generally a sacking offense for GMs and even DEVs to do so. Fortuantley in this case it was a simple mistake not a deliberate act (As I understand it).
The entire "kerfuffle", which Setec is apaprently immune to seeing, is the inherent problem of "implied favouritism" associated with anything like this - that's why its such a "no-no".
The itme itself is almost entirely irrelvant, one only need imagien the furore if m0o or Sinister had "obtained" a single TECH 5 laser and blown up a few of Setecs corp for fun, RP-ing it as a Jovian Secret Agent.
Instant banning and much outrage no doubts. Ironically the potential for "inbalance" is probably greater though a bottom-end item such as a mining laser than a single top-end gun... as the "piece" highlighted have you seen how much ore you can mine with it?
Its part jealousy, its part favouritism, its always stupid, it should never happen.
When a player with a level 5 agent and ultra-high faction with some corp with jove access gets a jove item - then believe it.
Anybody who tells you they got an obviously aberant item "from a GM" or even "as loot" report.
If its innocently there and not "wrong" there is no harm done. A simple rule and a fundamental one for experienced MOG gamers.
No MOG games company will ever "give" an item to a player and say "RP this into the game for us".
Unless they want to watch half their playerbase desert the game overnight and the rest in the morning.
Its no "Little thing" its about the biggest thing you will ever see in any MOG - and its caused irrepairable damage to the reputations of GMs, Companies, Guilds and individuals in other games so that every MOG company knows to avoid it like the plague... and that started way back with MUDs.
As one designer put it:
"You cannot build a community based on favouritism, but you can ruin one."
Its been associated with a "law" of online gaming for a long time also.
(Can you tell i manage "The History of Online Gaming"?)
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Brian Hissa
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:35:00 -
[19]
Well, however the item entered the game and however it leaves the game, it made for an interesting day. Perhaps the mechanics and the laws of the EVE universe will be changed because of this one mining laser, perhaps not.
The Human Factor played it's role today, and what the future holds, not even Hari Seldon can see. But I still look forward to it.
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Absinthe Addict
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:47:00 -
[20]
*smiling a knowing smile, sipping a wonderful Pernot 68 absinth*
Never ceasing, incredulous amazement (or amusement) do I find at how most of these technological conundrums happen to one corporation in the Eve universe. Taggart Transdimensional, the "first loved" corporation of CCP.
*winks, chuckles and sips absithe*
C'est la vie ma petit cher Jade, non? Absolument non! Assez fait qui fortune passe, et plus encor qui putain chasse.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:52:00 -
[21]
Quote:
HOW MANT TIMES MUST I SAY THIS--
Someone logged onto the game, a noob, with nothing. Not in TTi.
Instead of a basic miner, there was a Nibelung Particle Bore V.
This person kept it secret for a while. Then he decided to sell it to make a quick buck which anyone would do if they had nothing.
They sold it and it has probably been through a few hands.
Nobody has cheated and nobody has been given it off a GM AND nobody has got it off a Jove.
Thats if there is ONLY one.
Quote:
TomB > reason was a ship that is not used by players and had this mining laser as starting equipment, ship exploded and player looted it
Interpret how you will. The way I read it was the ship in question was never in player hands and was somehow destroyed. Some player looted the ship and run from there...
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Apostle
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:58:00 -
[22]
 I want to see some blood
We shall kill you |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 04:46:00 -
[23]
What the heck are you talking about Mission?
As posted above, CCP even said themselves thats not what happened.
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.08.07 04:48:00 -
[24]
I guess an important thing to note is we didn't obtain the item from "loot" or salvage. It was sold to us. The ship, if it indeed exploded, did so no where near us.
What I'm finding interesting is in talking to the person who sold this item to us he is very insistent in claiming his Jovian story is TRUE. He has provided exact details about the system and location in the system. He insists this is how it happend.
It will be very interesting to see what CCP does in this situation. I for one have some doubts as to the "exploding GM ship" story given this sellers continued insistence on how it happend. Since TTI provided his name to CCP I'm sure they've already contacted him?
We need a formal statement CCP!
Calladen Nimitz
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 04:51:00 -
[25]
Maybe he just doesnt want to get banned
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.08.07 04:53:00 -
[26]
... and as any exemplar player, you promptly warned CCP about the item, that can mine 3.5 times faster than the best mining laser in the game.
Sorry, I could not resist 
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Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.07 04:58:00 -
[27]
WTF am I talking about?
read it again if you don't understand.
It happened to a real life friend.
the ss i've posted 5times is what he took :-
http://www.lyndalou.btinternet.co.uk/nebilung.jpg
6times.
Maybe there is more than 1..
Personally i believe it is the same one.
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2003.08.07 05:29:00 -
[28]
Well Mission
CCP seems to disagree with you
And i think ill take the word of a CCP developer over that of your RL friend.
The quote is posted above if you missed it
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.08.07 05:31:00 -
[29]
I said it in another thread, will say it again here.
Look that screenshot. Pay attention to the news date. Thats almost 2 months!! Someone is using a tech lvl5 2 months now.
Again, we need an official statement from CCP asap.
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Maxx Headroom
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Posted - 2003.08.07 05:48:00 -
[30]
Quote:
... and as any exemplar player, you promptly warned CCP about the item, that can mine 3.5 times faster than the best mining laser in the game.
If one didn't want to tell CCP, wouldn't one NOT post a big press release about it?
From what I've read, the following occurred:
Some guy gets a mining laser he shouldn't have. Call him X.
X offers the laser to CEO of TTI, probably for a lot of isk. X tells TTI CEO "Hey, I got this from an in-character play with a GM about cool new Jovian stuff!" TTI CEO whips out his wallet and lays big green on X.
TTI CEO thinks it is a really cool item, writes up some fan fiction, and relays it to Jade, who writes up a pretty cool press release.
CCP finds out, says item never belonged in game, buh bye item.
Even if one thinks TTI is full of it, all the other facts corroborate the story that Jade put forth - CCP says the item got into game by mistake, TTI makes noise about having the item instead of quietly exploiting it, etc. If GM favoritism was involved, or even any knowledge that the item was not supposed to be in game, shouting it from the rooftops would have been the last thing TTI would have done! |
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