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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Agartha
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Posted - 2005.11.07 21:44:00 -
[1]
I was looking at the Apocalypse Battleship in the Item Database and saw they increased the armor to 6000 ...from somewhere near 4800? Other ships seems to have this boost as well.....
Is this for the upcoming patch?
Or am I daydreaming?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.11.07 21:46:00 -
[2]
+25% all ship shield/armor/hull HP next patch.
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.07 21:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:02:25
Has NOT been confirmed, and is hopefully cancelled, as it'd require a full balance pass. Again. (since other details in the database are obvious incorrect)
(There are problems ranging from sustainable tanks to blaster setups with it)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:03:00 -
[4]
It sounds good to me, that along with the dmg mod stacking effectiveness reduction should help survivability overall.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:19:00 -
[5]
Except it won't, in the vast majority of sotuations.
25% is insufficient to make a difference in almost any situation where 4-5 playrs focus fire on one, except for powerful sustainable tanks (which are allready very potent), and it really REALLY screws over fights with a few players on each side, especially at the frigate level where capacitor can run out in moments.
It also devalues smaller ships to a serious degree in wolfpacks, especially when combined with things like the new drones which cannot be used by smaller ships.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:23:00 -
[6]
But smaller ships are also getting this boost. I fail to see your point.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:34:00 -
[7]
100*1.25 = 125. Boost of 25.
1000*1.25=1250. Boost of 250.
Next.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:40:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Maya Rkell
100*1.25 = 125. Boost of 25.
1000*1.25=1250. Boost of 250.
Next.
and it screws over matari 
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Subscription canceled |
DarkAng3l
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:41:00 -
[9]
does any1 know when the patch is gonna come out?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.07 22:42:00 -
[10]
Yes.
Given the OTHER boosts, which allready favour sustainable and larger ship setups, I feel that it is totally uncessary to boost defences by 25% across the board.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Tiny Carlos
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:16:00 -
[11]
HP don't make a huge difference comapred with resists and abilty to boost/repair, so I dough it'll make a big difference to fight times. It'll just make ships that rely an alpha strike weaker.
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Angry Sheep
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:28:00 -
[12]
I really like the idea
hope its rolled out
It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/11/2005 23:32:55
The only whine anyone could possibly have with the +25% HP boost is that their tempest doesn't instapop things as well anymore.
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:55:00 -
[14]
Clue get? (PS, that applies to ALL minmatar arty ships)
Look,
Another example:
pre,
Frigate, 10 damage, 100 hull
Frigate, 5 damage, 100+150 (plate) = 250 hull (with plate)
post,
Frigate, 10 damage, 125 hull. (25% tougher, same damage)
Frigate, 5 damage, 275 hull. (10% tougher, same damage)
Devalues plates/extenders.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
O'Sirius
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Posted - 2005.11.08 00:18:00 -
[15]
I don't like it cause they're boosing NPC hp cause of it. Making missions and complexes take longer.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.11.08 00:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: O'Sirius
I don't like it cause they're boosing NPC hp cause of it. Making missions and complexes take longer.
not seen this mentioned but mabye they'll raise the rat bountys 25% to compensate, if not who cares missions are too easy money vs no risk.
Real men, play Rugby |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Clue get? (PS, that applies to ALL minmatar arty ships)
Look,
Another example:
pre,
Frigate, 10 damage, 100 hull
Frigate, 5 damage, 100+150 (plate) = 250 hull (with plate)
post,
Frigate, 10 damage, 125 hull. (25% tougher, same damage)
Frigate, 5 damage, 275 hull. (10% tougher, same damage)
Devalues plates/extenders.
Devaluing plates/extenders? Somewhat. A plate still will triple the HP of a thorax.
I don't see whats so bad about not having ships instapop anymore--isn't that a good thing?
-
Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 08/11/2005 01:21:59
How does 25% help? All it does is devalue any tank which is not sustainable. i.e. , not Amarr (or so weak it'll be broken anyway!).
And sorry, but you won't be putting a 1600mm plate on a xcruiser, remember? 800 will make you so slow that BS will have an even EASIER time of killing you, 1600 will just make you a sitting duck (especially if you're silly enough to use a MWD).
Plates and extenders USED to have a role in as you said, not making ships instapop. They will no longer really be viable for that after the patch, and I doubt a 25% boost will really help (when, as you said, before you were getting a far higher %).
Sure armour plates are too good. Revert them to pre-boost status. Extenders are fine, though.
MORE ships will be instapoppable after this patch than before. A 25% bonus which won't help and WILL mess up frigate balance isn't a help.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:33:00 -
[19]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 08/11/2005 01:34:21
One wonders with you finding flaws in everything CCP do, why you even tolerate playing such a blasphemously incorrect game.
A flat 25% hp boost is just going to make you last a little bit longer. It doesn't change anything.
Its the same as CCP taking every weapon in the game and nerfing the damage output by 25%.. except, less whiny.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:35:00 -
[20]
No, of course it dosn't upset quite a bit of balance, as I've allready shown in this thread. Troll elsewhere.
And for example, I have two specific issues with the rest of the tanking increase, and three specific issues with the drone changes. Apart from that, I like the idea. That you chose to pick on the negative parts of what I say is your choice.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:43:00 -
[21]
Right, because 7 replies of disagreeing with anyone who says anything isn't trolling but 1 reply is.
Quote:
MORE ships will be instapoppable after this patch than before.
For future reference! 
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.08 01:46:00 -
[22]
I've used examples and discussion.
You've used inuendo and personal attacks.
See the difference?
And yes, now less ships will be using plates or extenders, that's kinda obvious. Smaller ships benefit less from the % armour boosters, which are what have been boosted, and more from the new nerfed plates/extenders.
(When I say "more ships", I specifically mean designs (i.e. Crow, Raven, Ferrox). Just to make plain exactly what I mean).
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Weirda
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Posted - 2005.11.08 02:13:00 -
[23]
well - it seems that it will make it harder (take longer) for smaller ship to pop bigger one (which is what many want), without making it easier for bigger ship to pop smaller one (also what many want).
*shrug* best of both world. 
weirda think it actually put plate and extenders where they should be. if 'everyone is flying a plate' now, then there is something wrong with them, and if 'less ppl fly plates' it will be a reflection of ppl using them when it make sense. personally - weirda have always had easier time killing plate ships (as they are gimped in other ways) then non-plated ones, but it comes down to preference. plates will continue to help some employing certain specific tactics, just not all. 
--
Thread Killer
(attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.08 02:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 08/11/2005 02:57:00
Wierda,
Except that's not true. It'll make it easier for big ships to kill smaller ones because so many of their frigate-killing weapons are DoT-based, like drones.
Plates were used lots because of the flaw in the game that BS guns can destroy cruisers easily. That mandates a heavy tank, which will not be suicidal (far less cruisers used).
The problem is not the nerf, and I'd not argue for a moment that the plates NEEDED a boost (put them back down, you gave them 50% more armour CCP!), the problem is the FORM of the nerf - it's taking directly away from the survivability they're supposed to increase(more vulnrable to turrets, especially with a MWD for plates and plain easier to hit and damage for extenders), effectively removing them *entirely*.
And yes, they allready had drawbacks. Sigh.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
O'Sirius
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Posted - 2005.11.08 04:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jim Steele
Originally by: O'Sirius
I don't like it cause they're boosing NPC hp cause of it. Making missions and complexes take longer.
not seen this mentioned but mabye they'll raise the rat bountys 25% to compensate, if not who cares missions are too easy money vs no risk.
Well, what they said was that they're trying to go from many weak NPC to few strong ones, so they're putting in BC and Destroeyer rats, and allow rats to use NOS and Energy Disruptors. To offset that you'll be able to disable them by draining their cap as well.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.11.08 04:42:00 -
[26]
Boost them, better boost to all then "selective balancing" which ruins ships to oblivion.
Just for the record, one should clear understand that maller +25% HP is more then +25% of rupture, because maller has at least +20% resistance across the board, which in fact means that new HP of a maller is multiplied by 1.2 due to resitances.
Same with hacs/assaults vs tech1. +25% is not the same if you look at resists.
SAME for bigger ships which can in fact run full tank, while smaller ships can't really harden much. An apoc running 4xhards benifits much more from +25% hp then any cruiser or frig.
Not to mention that best weapon in the game = large nos benifit from longer battles against small stuff a lot.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.11.08 07:03:00 -
[27]
I'd like to see Cruisers getting boosted, but I suppose HP for everyone is just right as well. As DigitalCommunist said, this is a way to nerf weapons without decreasing the quality of them. Perfectly the way it should be done, I'd say.
Right now, unplated cruisers won't get the chance to do alot in smaller skirmishes since their percentage of HP drops so fast because of the insane damage weapons are doing today. Same goes for interceptors, their weapons chews eachother up so fast that going without a plate is bound to get you killed unless fighting clueless interceptors.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.11.08 07:50:00 -
[28]
Maya is just mad that 10 million isk ships wont be able to solo 120 million isk ships as easy. That is about the only thing I can gather.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Sub'Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.08 08:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
This is not a balanced change. A good idea, but not balanced. Only one person in this thread so far has pointed out and seems to understand that +25% hp ship with higher resistances is better than +25% hp on a normal ship. A T2 ship, or a heavy tanked ship, benefits a lot more from this change than others.
**Minmatar Whine Alert**
This is a massive Minmatar nerf; having the lowest DoT was already an issue, now it's just become (at least) 25% more of an issue. In addition to the fact, we're the race least capable of running a decent battleship tank, so we gain the least in terms of survivability. Combine with the upcoming Vigil and Rifter nerfs.....rearrange "a kicking down man he's when" into a commonly known phrase.
minmatar doesnt have lowest dot
minmatar got LOTS of cap as their guns use almost non to non, žnly thing it will have slight affect is how good burst damage is, but every1 running around with plates atm anyway...
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.11.08 09:12:00 -
[30]
THe HP boost is definitely a nerf for frigates, especially in combination with the plate nerf. I hope CCP realizes this and compensates it somehow.
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