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Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.10.23 14:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thought I had posted already...hmm...guess it didn't go through.
Traditional battlecruisers IRL are, in essence, slightly smaller, more maneuverable battleships, usually with battleship-sized guns, but fewer of them. Seems to me like they've finally decided to make a proper battlecruiser.
I can see maybe 4 weapon slots, probably along with a cpu/pg reduction as a role bonus. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
9
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Posted - 2011.10.23 14:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'm just really, really hoping the Tornado won't have the grid to fit arties. Blobs of 1400mm battlecruisers? No thanks. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2011.10.23 23:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:I'm just really, really hoping the Tornado won't have the grid to fit arties. Blobs of 1400mm battlecruisers? No thanks.
Same here, but since "variety" in eve means a lot of useless ships on the market and the same overused, yeah we can expect 1400mm alpha BC's vs Tachyions and Torp's bc's, while blaster ones will be ganking retrievers and hulks...
I might be surprised thou but atm, no hope, no confidence. |
Songbird
31
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Posted - 2011.10.24 03:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Historically there's 2 definitions of BC - a cruiser with BS armor, or a cruiser with BS guns.
1400mm Tornados won't be all that good, if it has 3 low and 3 meds.
A tier 3 BC should be almost as expensive as tier 1 BS.
I say bring more BC's , and I say bring a tier of pirate BC's. It's about time. |
Angry Onions
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
114
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Posted - 2011.10.24 03:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
If CCP is following the designs of the Tornado to the dot (for the most part they are), then the Tornado will receive a webbing range bonus per battle cruiser skill level, if this is the case then: Amarr will get some kind of Energy Neuting bonus Gallente will get some kind of Targeting Dampener bonus Caldari will get ECM bonus.
This will help give them a special role to fill out as well. E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your Carebear tears fuel us |
Soldarius
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
39
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Posted - 2011.10.24 04:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
While I would totally agree with Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar getting EWAR ships, Caldari don't need another ECM ship.
I agree that the Tornado is going to be the suicide ganker's wet dream.
Howerver, everyone seems to be forgetting that increased dps doesn't mean anything fi you can't reach out and touch someone with it. As BC hulls, these ships will have BC locking range. So SeBo'd BCs if you want to snipe. Shield tanking would be severely gimped. As a Caldari focused pilot, I would be a sad panda. Torps would make a better choice for the Caldari ship rather than cruise missiles. (Praying its not large rails on a Ferox, unless CCP gives me a T2 Drake next year. fap fap fap)
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
rodyas
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.10.24 06:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gallente want the new drake. Give us drone bunus with armor resitance bonus. Also can fit those large guns and has 50 drone bandwith. |
Jed Shady
Miranda United F0RCEFUL ENTRY
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 07:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
My off the cuff, not well though out idea.
The short comings of the various races is essential. If every hole gets spackeled the game goes down in flames, as it vanilla. So I wouldn't look to the T3's BS's to rectify what ever your particular gripe is with your pet race. I think it would be more interesting if they were "Spruce Gooses", meaning odd combinations of existing features. For example, maybe a drake with less tank but a cargo hold like a blockade runner. Or a Cane that has twice the turret hardpoints, but can only mount small arty/ac. The creative types can come up with something. But BS weapons on a smaller frame... yawn. We already have BS's and they don't cost that much, a BC with BS fire power would obsolete them. IHMO in the small skirmishes I've been involved in, it's all about dps, nobody brings BS's. Give us something off the wall and see what creative uses the community can come up with.
Jed |
ChromeStriker
The Shadow's clutch
11
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Posted - 2011.10.24 07:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
All of the ships are going to need PG/CPU bonuses to there respective weapons. Just giving them BS fitting stats is going to cause havoc (100MN MWD tornado ect) - Nulla Curas |
Potato IQ
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2011.10.24 08:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:All of the ships are going to need PG/CPU bonuses to there respective weapons. Just giving them BS fitting stats is going to cause havoc (100MN MWD tornado ect)
Agree a role bonus should be adopted
I welcome these new ships, regardless of the constructive or wild speculation against them in this and various other threads. A useful tool for WH dwellers
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2011.10.24 09:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Duchess Starbuckington wrote:I'm just really, really hoping the Tornado won't have the grid to fit arties. Blobs of 1400mm battlecruisers? No thanks. Same here, but since "variety" in eve means a lot of useless ships on the market and the same overused, yeah we can expect 1400mm alpha BC's vs Tachyions and Torp's bc's, while blaster ones will be ganking retrievers and hulks... I might be surprised thou but atm, no hope, no confidence.
lol, pre-tears
I'm going to gank you with a tornado. Using 1400mm, and I'll get two cryings for one kill. The one I get when I do it and the one your giving everyone right now.
"They better not be able to fit the large guns! I can't handle that thought, I don't even need to see ship stats or bonuses!"
"What? CCP is making a new hull? Oh god it's all over. This is the end. I know how this starts, next thing you know no one will fly any other ships."
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.24 12:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well, aside from the crying, the possibility exists that these new BCs just make another ship/shipclass obsolete. I like the whole idea of specialized ships that require intensive training and from the (admittedly very limited) information we have now, it looks like it will be a BC-sized ship with BS DPS. Since such a ship will always have some mids and/or low it's fairly safe to assume you can fit E-war and/or a tank on them, making them basically a fast battleship with a BC-sized tank. That doesn't sound very specialized to me.
I've never been a huge fan of BCs as they basically obsoleted cruisers, and from a first look this smells like "hey Tier3 BCs might obsolete battleships too". Battleships are already an inferior choice to Tech 3 cruisers / HACs and the various BC hulls for pretty much everything you want to do and I don't think they need even less reason to get used. |
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
14
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Posted - 2011.10.24 12:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:Well, aside from the crying, the possibility exists that these new BCs just make another ship/shipclass obsolete. I like the whole idea of specialized ships that require intensive training and from the (admittedly very limited) information we have now, it looks like it will be a BC-sized ship with BS DPS. Since such a ship will always have some mids and/or low it's fairly safe to assume you can fit E-war and/or a tank on them, making them basically a fast battleship with a BC-sized tank. That doesn't sound very specialized to me.
I've never been a huge fan of BCs as they basically obsoleted cruisers, and from a first look this smells like "hey Tier3 BCs might obsolete battleships too". Battleships are already an inferior choice to Tech 3 cruisers / HACs and the various BC hulls for pretty much everything you want to do and I don't think they need even less reason to get used.
yah, my feelings exactly.
I suspect they will make the BB even more useless.
CCP are back to their old strategy again - instead of working on the problms ingame, they distract the newer players with new ships irregardless of whether they are game breaking or not. And this pattern, seen many many times before, is exactly why people are not convinced by what CCP says.
But hay, its a new ship, hopefully its not too imba, and if it is, then we will all fly them (and their are T1) and stop flying all the other ships. . .
an then people can cry about the tier system and all the unused t1 ships out there and say they need a buff. . .not realizing that the reason they are useless is because they keep demanding new shinny ships. . . ironic. |
Darrius Cain
Legion of Heresy Burning Spear.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 15:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
I would like to see the Caldari variant being a Railboat, and none of them having drone bays. Make them awesome DPS support vessels because they can fit BS sized guns with nice bonuses (boni? idk). |
Cuircuir Moustache
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 16:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Well well well...
Frigates : Most T1 are useless AFs need work and a 4th bonus EAFs need work and balance
Destroyers The whole class is meh
Cruisers T1 are mostly unused T2 are unbalanced and some are broken (eagle, deimos etc)
BCs Works fine, except tier 1 obsoleted by tier 2
BSs Less and less used with each new smaller hull
Yeah. This game definitively needs a new tier of the most-used ship class. |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2011.10.24 17:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alright, so I'm cross- posting from my original thread about the Tornado, since this post seems to be more specific to what I came up with as possible specs for her, based on the ideas in the dev blog.
The biggest drain from a large turret is powergrid. So a ship bonus is likely: 90% reduction in Large Projectile Turret module Powergrid usage. So following the Cyc to Cane progression, could expect a powergrid of somewhere around 1490. That would allow you to mount 8 800mm repeaters, with some skills, but not much else. Toss on a 10% Rate of Fire bonus, because Larges are slow as hell.
I would bet on an even slot layout, 8H/4M/4L, 8 turret/4 missile, to allow for armor or shield but not be greater than the other BC's (8/4/6, 8/5/4) at either. Adds to the glass cannon concept. Armor guys can aim for webbing and speed, shield guys can aim for tracking and damage. Might even bump the speed to 175 (from the 165 standard to the others), since the dev blog mentioned speed and distance tanking. A 4500 point even split on shield and armor would allow the pilot to go either way, but the 4 slots keeps it from out-tanking the Cyc or Cane.
Crunch all that out and it'd make one hell of a paper sniper.
Thoughts? (Instead of gripes about broader game issues, which this thread seems to have mostly devolved into.) |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2011.10.24 17:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:Duchess Starbuckington wrote:I'm just really, really hoping the Tornado won't have the grid to fit arties. Blobs of 1400mm battlecruisers? No thanks. Same here, but since "variety" in eve means a lot of useless ships on the market and the same overused, yeah we can expect 1400mm alpha BC's vs Tachyions and Torp's bc's, while blaster ones will be ganking retrievers and hulks... I might be surprised thou but atm, no hope, no confidence. lol, pre-tears I'm going to gank you with a tornado. Using 1400mm, and I'll get two cryings for one kill. The one I get when I do it and the one your giving everyone right now. "They better not be able to fit the large guns! I can't handle that thought, I don't even need to see ship stats or bonuses!" "What? CCP is making a new hull? Oh god it's all over. This is the end. I know how this starts, next thing you know no one will fly any other ships."
No you will not, because the bastard behind you already kicking your butt in his Angel ship is me.
You see how interested I am in balance stuff and most important, your silly opinion.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
9
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Posted - 2011.10.24 18:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Quote:lol, pre-tears
I'm going to gank you with a tornado. Using 1400mm, and I'll get two cryings for one kill. The one I get when I do it and the one your giving everyone right now.
"They better not be able to fit the large guns! I can't handle that thought, I don't even need to see ship stats or bonuses!"
"What? CCP is making a new hull? Oh god it's all over. This is the end. I know how this starts, next thing you know no one will fly any other ships."
Lol
Wow. It's really not that often that someone makes such a big show of being a complete idiot.
If anyone with a brain here can think of a reason why a blob of 1400mm arty toting Tornados will be good for the game, I'm happy to hear it. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.24 18:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
this is why they should have made them new battleships. It would have made a lot more sense. I forsee them being super squishy. |
Anikan Fernardo
CAPTAIN BLACKS ORE BRAGADE
3
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Posted - 2011.10.24 19:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
The people saying T3 BC's will be suicide gank ships are delusional. They will likely cost as much as if not more than Strategic Cruisers. I don't see all these " glass cannon 1400mm Tornado gangs " coming to fruition when the cost will probably be more than a Mach or Vindi hull for a decently fit one. |
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Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
108
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Posted - 2011.10.24 19:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Anikan Fernardo wrote:The people saying T3 BC's will be suicide gank ships are delusional. They will likely cost as much as if not more than Strategic Cruisers. I don't see all these " glass cannon 1400mm Tornado gangs " coming to fruition when the cost will probably be more than a Mach or Vindi hull for a decently fit one.
Quoting someone who doesn't understand the difference between "Tech" and "Tier." |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2011.10.24 19:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anikan Fernardo wrote:The people saying T3 BC's will be suicide gank ships are delusional. They will likely cost as much as if not more than Strategic Cruisers. I don't see all these " glass cannon 1400mm Tornado gangs " coming to fruition when the cost will probably be more than a Mach or Vindi hull for a decently fit one.
Hey, flash news!!
Tier 3 is not Tech 3
again flash news for you:
-less tank than regular bc -BS sized guns
More expensive than T3's or faction BS's???
Mwahaha |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
56
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
I hope that this doesn't further cause for Minmatar's superiority...
You always see Hurricanes in gangs since they're cheap effective DPS boats that are agile. Drakes are also common because they have massive tanks and are common PVE ships. How may I drug you with drugs? |
De BuG2
Rise on Chaos The Fendahlian Collective
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 09:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Personally, i would take the Tier 1 Cyclone over the Tier 2 Hurricane any day. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
123
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Posted - 2011.10.25 10:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
I'm expecting a good highslot rack with 6-7 hardpoints (any less and they'll barely outdamage the existing tier 2s) minimal buffering options (so not many mids or lows), minimal or no dronebay, and both bonuses to the large guns. |
Oxeu
Garnithos seal of the Covenant The Heaven's Devils
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 10:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
TO me the whole notice of large guns on a bc hull makes me shake my head, what use will that serve, any cruiser will speed tank those guns and just laugh at the whole thing, same reason why BS are used so little the smaller hulls are just so trouble some to be hit so you need dedicated tackle which cost more tends not always to be the most solid ship on the field making a fleet of plain BC far more cost effective for any small gang.
Anyhow that is my thoughts now, the real impact we can only find out when we can fly them and test them till than you will be able to get as much facts from here as from asking any person to point in the direction where Atlantis is supposed to be, neither of these with get you anything of use. |
Imaginary Girlfriend
Exploit Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Why when large guns are discused everyone assumes it means the largest, nuetrons, megas, 1400's ect. What if the stealth bomber type bonus given to the ships only allow for the double crusier sized weapons, in theory you would turn your 6 large highs slots into 12 med high slots. Maybe CCP is looking at making a BC Killer rather that a BS replacement. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2011.10.25 21:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
Imaginary Girlfriend wrote: Maybe CCP is looking at making a BC Killer rather that a BS replacement.
Because Vagas Cynabals Zealots can do the job unless you're talking about Drake trains
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Cillet Baang Scott
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 22:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
[Gallente Tier 3 BC] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
50m3 drone bay
a +5% damage/level... u get 712dps + watever hammers do.
I sense failure
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2011.10.25 22:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Cillet Baang Scott wrote:[Gallente Tier 3 BC] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
50m3 drone bay
a +5% damage/level... u get 712dps + watever hammers do.
I sense failure
Being stuck with such short range is the biggest fail in the first place. The fit and slots layout let's wait and see but if I should give some note on your ship has it stand right now: 1/10 for everything else than gank where that note would rise up to 7, Arty and beam/tach's would pick 10/10
Let's wait for the official announcement. Let's wait to see how big the fail can be.
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