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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
After spending the past couple days scanning (a lot, as in nearly 200 systems), I have determined the new "DSP" method for getting signature sizes. It's actually quite simple..
Jump into a new system, and look at the initial scan signatures. Ignore anomalies and sort by distance. The "closer" the signature, the larger the signature.
You can still use SwiftAndBitter's DSP guide located here: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/index.html
Now, with the signatures sorted by distance...
6.22 AU = Size 10 6.96 AU = Size 7.5 7.33 AU = Size 5 7.89 AU = Size 2.5 7.95 AU = Size 2.2
Compare to the DSP chart, and you now know what signature types are (probably) in the system. |

Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 02:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's larger because it's closer?
Or the sig strength is higher because it's closer.... |

Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 02:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am relieved to know that whatever system I jump in to that the incoming WHs will always be close to me.
I guess the size 10 incoming WHs to my system will always spawn around my POS since that's where I log in the most, and radars will always be at the other end of the system.
Thank god.
What if I move the pos? |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5156
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 03:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lusty Wench wrote:I am relieved to know that whatever system I jump in to that the incoming WHs will always be close to me.
I guess the size 10 incoming WHs to my system will always spawn around my POS since that's where I log in the most, and radars will always be at the other end of the system.
Thank god.
What if I move the pos? The distance shown in the scanner window on the initial scan has nothing to do with the actual distance. They're clearly banded and different from the actual distance. |

Haulie Berry
975
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 03:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, I've gotta think that's a bug. They pretty intentionally removed signal strength from the system scanner, and the distance column basically does the same thing. |

Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
87
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 04:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: The distance shown in the scanner window on the initial scan has nothing to do with the actual distance. They're clearly banded and different from the actual distance.
Then that's clearly a bug.
|

JudgeFranc
Italians do it better
1
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Posted - 2013.06.08 09:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
the highest band correspond to the "4 AU distance" |

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1235
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hello ladies and gentlemen o7 I have made updates to the DSP guide! I could not have done this without HTC NecoSino's help, you all owe him big time. |

Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes, this is a bug I am pretty sure. When I was playing around with this on the test server the distances were actually displaying pretty accurately. Now the distance will be shown as 4au for example when the actual signature is 30au away. So surely a bug. |

Lexmana
969
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Interesting. To bad its probably gonna be patched. But nice work! |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5158
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Interesting. To bad its probably gonna be patched. But nice work! Well that just means now is the perfect time to do some old school DED farming, since the info isn't widely circulated yet and a patch will take time to implement. |

Tabane Shinonono
Namu Corporation Factory
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
St Mio just updated his swift and bitter dsp site :> |

John DaiSho
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 12:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
I guess this is one of those "They did WHAT?" moments the devs have from time to time. Lets see, if this gets accepted, just like jetcan mining did. |

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1419
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 12:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
It was also fairly easy to do the same via combat probes. It isn't quite as accurate since they cannot go as wide as DSP's could. But the spread formation helps counteract that (think of it kind of like an array style radio telescope). I've found probing so easy I just scan everything with combats now anyhow.
Pop probes in spread formation. increase to max (64AU). Deactivate first probe (they double up the center probe which throws off values). Scan. Reactivate probe one. Switch to pinpoint. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
672

|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
I can confirm that this looks like a bug. You should be able to figure out some kind of info through the amount of uncertainty (the size of the circle in space and on the solar system map) - but the distance column in the probe scanner should display the estimated distance to the signature (and not the uncertainty value).
I am pretty sure, that you can expect changes to this (but with the disclaimer, that I am not a game designer). 
Thank you to whoever wrote a bugreport about this.  CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock | Team Five 0 Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
|

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1238
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 19:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:I can confirm that this looks like a bug. You should be able to figure out some kind of info through the amount of uncertainty (the size of the circle in space and on the solar system map) - but the distance column in the probe scanner should display the estimated distance to the signature (and not the uncertainty value). I am pretty sure, that you can expect changes to this (but with the disclaimer, that I am not a game designer).  Thank you to whoever wrote a bugreport about this.  You could have told us this before I updated, not after :'( |

Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
518
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
So. He does indicate that the 'uncertainty' should be an indicator -- which is to say, if you calculate the spread, then you've got sig sizes again.
So this chart will still be useful -- you'll just have to do a tiny bit of mental math. |

Blue Binary
Polychoron
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 21:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Greyscale did state during testing that the range deviation given in the tooltip could still be used to derive a rough estimate of signature strength.
|

Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
103
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hilarious!
I also wonder if using the percentages in the scanner will be 'frowned' upon after that. The underlying problem is that the bands (sig sizes) are STILL THERE. Just randomize them a bit and this whole issue will go away. The actual scanning is now faster than ever anyway. |

Kor'el Izia
63
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 14:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen o7 I have made updates to the DSP guide! I could not have done this without HTC NecoSino's help, you all owe him big time. Great job, tiny defect: Rename the header columns aswell  |
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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen o7 I have made updates to the DSP guide! I could not have done this without HTC NecoSino's help, you all owe him big time.
Can you have the old one still active somewhere? Especially when they remove the distance 'trick', despite the lack of DSPs your site was still useful for figuring out if a WH was your static or another WH etc. by using normal probes. |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP Updated with size 4 and 2 distances. |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 16:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:St Mio wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen o7 I have made updates to the DSP guide! I could not have done this without HTC NecoSino's help, you all owe him big time. Can you have the old one still active somewhere? Especially when they remove the distance 'trick', despite the lack of DSPs your site was still useful for figuring out if a WH was your static or another WH etc. by using normal probes.
It's the same info, just with the 1st column changed. If they do add a randomization, it'll still be the same info, just with different ways of reading it. |

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 18:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:St Mio wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen o7 I have made updates to the DSP guide! I could not have done this without HTC NecoSino's help, you all owe him big time. Can you have the old one still active somewhere? Especially when they remove the distance 'trick', despite the lack of DSPs your site was still useful for figuring out if a WH was your static or another WH etc. by using normal probes. It's the same info, just with the 1st column changed. If they do add a randomization, it'll still be the same info, just with different ways of reading it.
Exactly. And I would like a version with the column unchanged or an option to show the column and a field to enter the base probe strength. |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 19:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Exactly. And I would like a version with the column unchanged or an option to show the column and a field to enter the base probe strength.
Base probe strength has no effect using the current method. If CCP updates this "bug" then that will probably change. Once we figure out that method, an option for sig strength will be added again, if necessary.
|

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 20:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Exactly. And I would like a version with the column unchanged or an option to show the column and a field to enter the base probe strength. Base probe strength has no effect using the current method. If CCP updates this "bug" then that will probably change. Once we figure out that method, an option for sig strength will be added again, if necessary. It does if you use normal probes! I still used the DSP website after Odyssey and it worked fine for me. |

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1242
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 20:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Now now people! I put both in! All is well :3 |

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 20:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Now now people! I put both in! All is well :3 Awesome, thanks! :hugs: |

Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 12:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is such a sad sad day. |

Kass Ikkala
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 12:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Perhaps it should be considered a feature. Emissions broadcasts should follow the inverse squares law. |
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 12:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
They broke it.
User Interface
The scanner window will show the correct distance to single probe and pre-loaded results. |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 12:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:They broke it.
User Interface
The scanner window will show the correct distance to single probe and pre-loaded results.
It still works just fine, just a little more annoying.
Turn on scanner overlay, hover over a signature. Look at the distance.. For example..
22.4 AU - 29.7AU
Find the difference: 7.3AU Look at the DSP guide for the corresponding signature type.
The only time this is going to be impossible to do is the size 2 and 2.2, since the distance is rounded, they will both read as 8AU |

Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 13:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
I see. |

Kai Pirinha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
43
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 14:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:They broke it.
User Interface
The scanner window will show the correct distance to single probe and pre-loaded results. It still works just fine, just a little more annoying. Turn on scanner overlay, hover over a signature. Look at the distance.. For example.. 22.4 AU - 29.7AU Find the difference: 7.3AU Look at the DSP guide for the corresponding signature type. The only time this is going to be impossible to do is the size 2 and 2.2, since the distance is rounded, they will both read as 8AU Did you have to spoil THIS ONE too?
Now CCP will remove this too.     |

Valleriani
TriFlexure Void-Legion
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kai Pirinha wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:They broke it.
User Interface
The scanner window will show the correct distance to single probe and pre-loaded results. It still works just fine, just a little more annoying. Turn on scanner overlay, hover over a signature. Look at the distance.. For example.. 22.4 AU - 29.7AU Find the difference: 7.3AU Look at the DSP guide for the corresponding signature type. The only time this is going to be impossible to do is the size 2 and 2.2, since the distance is rounded, they will both read as 8AU Did you have to spoil THIS ONE too? Now CCP will remove this too.    
It's okay, I'll murder him at the PoS tonight and store his remains in the cargo bay of a freighter. They won't find the body. |

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kai Pirinha wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:They broke it.
User Interface
The scanner window will show the correct distance to single probe and pre-loaded results. It still works just fine, just a little more annoying. Turn on scanner overlay, hover over a signature. Look at the distance.. For example.. 22.4 AU - 29.7AU Find the difference: 7.3AU Look at the DSP guide for the corresponding signature type. The only time this is going to be impossible to do is the size 2 and 2.2, since the distance is rounded, they will both read as 8AU Did you have to spoil THIS ONE too? Now CCP will remove this too.    
Based on CCP replies, it seems like this is the way that it is supposed to work. |

Susurrus Synaesthesia
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 20:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Looks good |

Zircon Dasher
227
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 00:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
It's almost like CCP wants us to be cherry pickers..... Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 01:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well I don't see any advantage to panning your camera around searching for icons to mouse over. Its faster to just scan everything to 25% to see what it is. So I'd guess that this feature is safe from the nerfbat, for those who enjoy twirling their camera around.
|

HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 13:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote: EDIT: Hmm... it would be nice if we could click on the signature in the list in the scan window and have the camera pan to face it and automatically display the popup with the information. Then I would use the information to deduce whether I want to scan it down or not. But panning the camera all around looking for it... nah.
It would also be cool if you could somehow manipulate probes without opening the map window. If CCP wants us to use the icons floating in space then it is not a good idea to have us constantly switching between normal space view and map view. Maybe they could add another tab to the scanning window that displays a mini solar system map. Instead of showing the whole solar system it focuses on where your probes are. When you click on a signature in the list, it positions your probes over it. When you click scan then they warp to the sig and begin the scan. You then continue reducing probe size as usual. I dunno. They'd have to do SOMETHING new, cause fitting the whole system map in that small space wouldn't work out. And making the window take up the whole screen would defeat the purpose.
I actually like this idea a lot. They already have the tracking camera, why not click tracking, click a signature, and have the camera sweep to the signature?
I think that I would like it even better if just hovering over the signature in the list brought up the same tooltip that it does in space. |
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote: I think that I would like it even better if just hovering over the signature in the list brought up the same tooltip that it does in space.
Yeah that would be a simpler solution. Then I could just stay in the map view 100% of the time as usual. No switching back and fourth. No twirling of the camera.
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
407
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't think camera tracking works for unidentified sites does it? "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
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HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
17
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Support my feature request thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3202885#post3202885 |
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