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The Hanz
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Posted - 2005.11.09 11:25:00 -
[1]
Figured this link might be interesting to some who are concerned about CCP's hardware upgrades.
Linkage
While crosslinking is generally a bad idea, this is just too much good information to pass up.
Lemme know which side you all end up on.....
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.11.09 11:51:00 -
[2]
a) THG is rubbish
b) The server density point is very relevant
c) If they're using licensed OSes they'll probably halve their licensing costs by going dual-core
d) I imagine CCP have done a far more in-depth analysis pertaining to their specific position before making any decisions
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The Hanz
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Posted - 2005.11.09 12:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: The Hanz on 09/11/2005 12:03:05
How is THG rubbish?
And what's keeping them from using dual CPU's that are dual core? I'm no expert here, so maybe someone will know.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.11.09 14:35:00 -
[4]
THG was good five or ten years ago :P
And nothing's keeping them from using dual-socket systems with dual-core processors. They might well be doing so. It still qualifies as "dual-core hardware" though.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:20:00 -
[5]
CCP will be relying on real engineers for this, not some dudes with a website.
And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2005.11.09 21:23:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: theRaptor
CCP will be relying on real engineers for this, not some dudes with a website.
qft
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 06:11:00 -
[7]
CCP will have top rating engineers looking at this or the guys from iceland telecom will be helping out they know their stuff and hopefully will be of benefit to the game
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Aoki Tenshi
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Posted - 2005.11.10 11:37:00 -
[8]
I have some idea about what type of hardware they are using and in what configurations, because I am a server admin, and I know how these things work.
The current path looks to be getting the server code running on native 64bit, that will get them a nice performance jump, once that is done, and allow them to upgrade the RAM on all the servers.
There are a number of venduhs that will sell you x86 hardware with a selection of cpu counts (1,2,4,8 & 16) some of which come with or are ready to drop in duel cores as soon as CCP pays the $$$$$, and takes the downtime.
Going to or buying dual core is a wonderful idea, and will most likely roll out in the future, but this kind of stuff must be planned well ahead. CCP must also consider if they wish to spend capital on dual cores ore wait for the quads with multi threading that are in the pipe.
I have done some testing on a 4 CPU system with dual cores, and it was very nice, not a large scale Sun box but very nice.
Sr Solaris Admin
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VantDre
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Posted - 2005.11.13 21:40:00 -
[9]
mutli cpus rock.
I commented on this when they posted
the layout of SOL servers.
I had though of a more complex response
to this thread, but thought i'd just
go out with a simple phrase:
Every software Enginneer i've met has
been a moron.
Go programmers go! *hands devs cheese*
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.11.14 01:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: The Hanz
Edited by: The Hanz on 09/11/2005 12:03:05
How is THG rubbish?
And what's keeping them from using dual CPU's that are dual core? I'm no expert here, so maybe someone will know.
THG is very intel slanted and their tests not only slant toward Intel ( can you say out of date ) but even when AMD trounces them they blow it off and still commend intel. Intel is rubbish and will be for several years to come. They should sell those damn Prescott chips and Pentium Ds to russia as space heaters.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.14 02:07:00 -
[11]
THG sucks.
BTW multicore is incredibly useful for CCP's application.
-
Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.11.14 10:25:00 -
[12]
It will all come down to how Eve has been coded and wether it will handle multi threadiing properly or not. Its not a simple matter of putting in a new chip and saying thats it. If the software is truly multithreading it will be able to have more than 1 thread processed at once, if not then it has to wait to process the threads one at a time and multiple cores and CPU's will be of no use. Then you need to optimise the code to make the most efficient use of the multiple cores / Cpu's.
Most of the servers I work on are multi CPU and all are intel based, and a lot of software applications show no significant gains from multiple cpu's as they were not written / optimised for it.
I hope that Eve has been cleverly coded but with the drone escapade on the horizon I have my Doubts.
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The Hanz
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Posted - 2005.11.20 11:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: The Hanz
Edited by: The Hanz on 09/11/2005 12:03:05
How is THG rubbish?
And what's keeping them from using dual CPU's that are dual core? I'm no expert here, so maybe someone will know.
THG is very intel slanted and their tests not only slant toward Intel ( can you say out of date ) but even when AMD trounces them they blow it off and still commend intel. Intel is rubbish and will be for several years to come. They should sell those damn Prescott chips and Pentium Ds to russia as space heaters.
The generaly impression I got from THG is that they thought AMD was on top peformance wise....so give me more than your opinion on THG.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.11.20 18:29:00 -
[14]
THG were good about, what, eight to ten years ago. Since then their editorials and reviews have been the subject of repeated and in most cases at least partially justified accusations concerning bias, sensationalism and outright inaccuracy. There is nothing solid (partly because they often take controversial stuff down again) but a straw poll of people on more tech-minded forums often throws up the result that the majority of people, myself included, just plain don't trust them any more.
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Tiny Carlos
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
THG sucks.
BTW multicore is incredibly useful for CCP's application.
I though memory bandwidth per core was important for the SOL machines, dual core shares shares one CPUs worth of IO between the cores, so they may not be much use.
I'm sure CCP and the hardware vendors know what's they're doing though
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.21 09:21:00 -
[16]
well lets hope they can allow 600-800 ship fleet battles in a single solar system or across several because otherwise i know a fwe players that are taking a break.
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Torvail
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Posted - 2005.11.21 17:17:00 -
[17]
THG is a serious load of crap
It all started with the infamous "watercooling kit review" - first two kits on the market, one was accidently shipped without a fan for the radiator. Well the idiot writing the article never noticed it and gave the really really crappy kit a wonderful review and the far superior kit a very negative review because he wasn't smart enough to realize the fan was missing. That was about 8 - 10 years ago.
Almost all websites are bias in some way ~ THG's articles and review are just not well thought out and their testing is poor. I mean seriously - they review like 12 motherboards in a shootout and only 2 of them usually are worth anything - the other 10 are generic oem pieces of crap.
Dual core would only be beneficial for eve if they coded it for multiple cores otherwise it's pretty pointless. From a user prespective though drivers are starting to go dual core capable (ie nvidia) so in the future it will be largely benefitial. CPU is becoming the bottleneck these days and it isn't the memory bus thats holding it back mostly now.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.11.21 18:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: theRaptor on 21/11/2005 18:58:34
Originally by: TorvailDual
core would only be beneficial for eve if they coded it for multiple cores otherwise it's pretty pointless. From a user prespective though drivers are starting to go dual core capable (ie nvidia) so in the future it will be largely benefitial. CPU is becoming the bottleneck these days and it isn't the memory bus thats holding it back mostly now.
What do you mean "if" they could code it for dual core? The EVE server probably has several hundred thousand threads (probably just on a single node), that mostly don't interact with each other. It is probably the most threaded MMO that exists.
And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
Torvail
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Posted - 2005.11.21 19:22:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Torvail on 21/11/2005 19:23:24
well, I don't dissagree at all the eve would be perfect for multicore - they just need to slap the code in that directs the threads to different cores or to make it be able to choose another core seperate from OS. It's always fun seeing how crappily OS's handle multiple cores themselves without something being specifically coded for multiple cores. I don't know they could have this in place already, I can't remember if they were using multiproc machines or not (been so long since I read hardware crap that eve runs I just remember IBM blade servers but those could be single proc blades for all I know)
When I was doing performance testing at a large unamed chip company *wink wink* both windows and linux even seeing 4 logical cores (2x cpu each Hyperthreaded) would peg one of the cores under alot of different senarios and leave the others idle doing nothing.
It would probably be fairly cake for them to optimize eve for it, I think it's a great idea. Hell can get 8 logical cores on a dual proc board with intel and 4 with amd. cuts down cost alot from having to go with 4x and 8x cpu machines
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Gaelron
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Posted - 2005.11.21 21:49:00 -
[20]
There was a dev post saying that they were looking at dual core processors but if they wanted to use them it would require recoding the game because the python version they are using is not dual core capable or something similar.
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Tiny Carlos
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Posted - 2005.11.22 00:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gaelron
There was a dev post saying that they were looking at dual core processors but if they wanted to use them it would require recoding the game because the python version they are using is not dual core capable or something similar.
Yeah, I belive the multithreading on the sols happes as threads in stackless python, which is itself not yet sorted to run as multiple system level threads. So although each SOL sever is a multithreaded thing, it needs to run on a single CPU.
I've heard rumour that stackless is losing support a bit, so it maybe a little slow to get updated, but I think it's open so CCP could always do it themselves
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