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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.11.09 16:49:00 -
[1]
I use drones when NPCing to kill frigs and help with cruisers to which torps and cruises do little damage.
If I understand the changes correctly, the raven will only have 3 heavies after patch, instead of 6.
To get the same benefit from those 3 heavies, you need drone interfacing 5, a high rank skill.
I have no problem training skills (in fact yes, I have, but let's forget that) but it seems unfair to me to have to train yet another high rank skill to 5 and not get the full benefit out of it.
If you train a skill to 5, it only seems logical you get the same benefit than everybody, while it is not true for drone interfacing, Caldari having small dronebays (or no dronebay at all).
So, what will be the best choice for raven pilots (and Caldari in general) after the drone overhaul?
Train drone interfacing to 5 and use 3 heavies?
Use 5 medium drones (that currently are less effective than heavies)?
Use 5 small drones (currently a waste of drone cargo)?
Pay 1,000,000,000 ISK for an officer smartbomb?
Don't point me at the 45 pages pure whinage drone thread please, I don't have the time atm, thank you 
____________________________________
Let's make the MK2 Moa a ship worth flying.
Killmails |
Leneerra
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Posted - 2005.11.09 16:54:00 -
[2]
I guess meds will be your best choise, unless the new EW drones are realy good for npc combat as well, but thst is not really expected.
and yes it looks like you will be forced to train a rank 5 to level 5 to keep what you had.
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Clit c0mmander
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:05:00 -
[3]
Imo i would get it to lvl 5 and it will be the same as what you got now except there will be less of a chance that the drones stick to each other
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:39:00 -
[4]
You won't want to use heavies anyway, as they won't be able to hit frigs really (they get tracking now I believe), so you'll just want mediums/lights. and it won't be necessary, it's just best to have
Free bumpage for all |
Shadow Vice
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Posted - 2005.11.09 17:50:00 -
[5]
my advice use target painting drones whem they come out with these drone changes that way you can kill everyting with your missles
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:27:00 -
[6]
Its pretty manditory for all races now, im not going to cry about it though. Personally i dont think it will make much difference, i mean everyone has to train the skill right.
I do think some ships need a slight dronebay buff 
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Weirda
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:30:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Shadow Vice
my advice use target painting drones whem they come out with these drone changes that way you can kill everyting with your missles
good observation.
would do either that or a blend of target painter/webbers depending on how stacking penalty is applied to the drones. 
--
Thread Killer
(attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:33:00 -
[8]
Yes, you will no longer have maximum performance from drones by simply dabbling in drone usage as you could before. Interestingly enough it seems, on a glance, that the EW drones won't care what level you have Interfacing at.
Originally by: Jim Steele
Its pretty manditory for all races now, im not going to cry about it though. Personally i dont think it will make much difference, i mean everyone has to train the skill right.
I do think some ships need a slight dronebay buff
And others might need a slight debuff (*shivers thinking of EW drone Gankageddons*)
I wish there were more fun skills with Memory as primary. Poor Intaki combat people with low perception... |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.09 18:59:00 -
[9]
Use webber drones to slow targets down a *lot*, making them far more vulnrable to your main battery?
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Babalon
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:09:00 -
[10]
Yes
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Gort
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:22:00 -
[11]
Welcome to the Typhoon pilot's world. They have to train projos, missles, and drones, all to a high level.
Regards,
Gort
Makeup artist for the dead |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:25:00 -
[12]
'Fraid to say i don't see your point.
Each Battleship relies on Frigate Guns and / or Drones to deal with NPC Interceptors. You're no better or worse off then the rest of us.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:36:00 -
[13]
You could always train caldari AF/HAC skills, since neither of those have a dronebay.
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Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage. |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:48:00 -
[14]
so much is chaning, people will use drones different ways.
Perhaps a bit more of a pasive tanked Raven, using the 3 shield booster drones.
EW is also a good idea.
best advice is to train interface cause training a skill is always better than not training a skill
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:53:00 -
[15]
raven with 2 web drones + a target painter drone?
that's like almost 2 free mids, i think
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
Basileus
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Posted - 2005.11.09 20:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Basileus on 09/11/2005 20:21:38
Edited by: Basileus on 09/11/2005 20:21:28
Christ, are they going to nerf the Raven yet again? What's the bloody point of flying one?! Leave the damn thing alone! It's fine as it is!!!
Edit: can't spell for ****
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MWEI
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Posted - 2005.11.09 21:00:00 -
[17]
Do some math
If I recall correctly and nothing new came out after the dev blog
Each level of drone-interfacing gives %20 bonus to drone damage.
Lets do some math
1.2(20%) ^5(lv5) = 2.5 so 150% increase in damage.
3(drones) x 2.5 (7.5 drones) > 6(drones)
So in effect if you train it to lv5 you would have more damage
If you dont want to train to lv5, train to lv4 (2-3 days?)
1.2(20%) ^4(lv4) = 2 so 100% increase in damage.
3(drones) x 2 (6 drones) = 6(drones)
In effect you would get the same benifit as before with a lv4
True, you have to train drone interfacing from lv1 to lv4 to utilize the same damage as before, thats the bad part (not that bad), but you also get a potential boost to raven drone damage, so it balances out.
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Drunken103
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Posted - 2005.11.09 21:31:00 -
[18]
Intersting topic...
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Lena Starcatcher
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Posted - 2005.11.09 22:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MWEI
Do some math
If I recall correctly and nothing new came out after the dev blog
Each level of drone-interfacing gives %20 bonus to drone damage.
Lets do some math
1.2(20%) ^5(lv5) = 2.5 so 150% increase in damage.
3(drones) x 2.5 (7.5 drones) > 6(drones)
So in effect if you train it to lv5 you would have more damage
If you dont want to train to lv5, train to lv4 (2-3 days?)
1.2(20%) ^4(lv4) = 2 so 100% increase in damage.
3(drones) x 2 (6 drones) = 6(drones)
In effect you would get the same benifit as before with a lv4
True, you have to train drone interfacing from lv1 to lv4 to utilize the same damage as before, thats the bad part (not that bad), but you also get a potential boost to raven drone damage, so it balances out.
Maths is not 1.2^5 it is:
1+(0.2 * 5) = 2
so 3 drones will have damage of 6 at lvl 5 not 7.5
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.11.09 23:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Basileus
Edited by: Basileus on 09/11/2005 20:21:38
Edited by: Basileus on 09/11/2005 20:21:28
Christ, are they going to nerf the Raven yet again? What's the bloody point of flying one?! Leave the damn thing alone! It's fine as it is!!!
Edit: can't spell for ****
Erm.... step away from the keyboard.. calm down... noone's nerfing anything.. 
Respect the Domi. Or else. |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.11.09 23:49:00 -
[21]
the only thing thats mandatory for raven is caldari battleship 2
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"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.11.09 23:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Randay
the only thing thats mandatory for raven is caldari battleship 2
If you want to die horribly in battle without scratching your enemy, then yes.
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.11.09 23:52:00 -
[23]
on a silly note: i want smartbombing drones.
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"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
DayVV4lkEr
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Posted - 2005.11.10 00:33:00 -
[24]
The problem i see at the moment isn't the drone changes overall. the problem i see are the new EW/target painting/whatever drones. they will completly unbalance some ships. for example a Deimos compared to a Cerberus. the cerberus has no dronebay at all and the deimos can now get whatever the pilot wants into one free medslot because of webbing drones. or the deimos just uses ew drones and so on and so on.
i think that ships with absolutly no drone bay (normally caldari ships) will have problems to keep up with the other races.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.10 02:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Trelennen on 10/11/2005 02:25:01
Originally by: MWEI
Lets do some math
1.2(20%) ^5(lv5) = 2.5 so 150% increase in damage.
3(drones) x 2.5 (7.5 drones) > 6(drones)
So in effect if you train it to lv5 you would have more damage
Man, that's at least the third time you give this calculation and you're told it's totaly wrong! In EVE, skills are not computed like that, but like (bonus per level * level) = total bonus. In this case, it gives a multiplier of (1 + 0.2 * 5) = 2 so 100% increase, not 150%.
Please learn how things work in EVE before continuing posting your erroneous calculation, and read the answers to your post, then maybe you can learn something!
/rant
You won't ever get higher damage in the new system only with drone interfacing, except if you have more than half your previous drone bay (like ishkur, which used to be able to use 5 med drones and will be able to ues 4 new med drones, resulting in 3 additional old drones damage wise if max skills). You will get higher damage with maxed skills though, thanks to the new skills that will be introduced (well more likely better advantage for drones specialists which will train those new skills with a higher priority than people having to train their main weapon skills first) and the new drones modules.
edit: BS who could use 10 or more drones won't suffer from this change, as they'll most likely have at least drone interfacing 4 (which means no loss for those, and a not too big loss for domi pilots with DI4 and BS4 only), before new skills of course. But pilots of ships which couldn't fit 10 heavy drones will now have to train more skills to get to their original point. Now, Raven pilots for example will need to get DI5 to have 3 drones as powerful as 6 before. But a geddon pilot, with the same skills, will have 5 drones as powerful as 10.
Maybe Drones skill and Drone Interfacing skills effects should be reversed (eg. drones gives 20% damage / mining yield per level, with first level giving the ability to fly one - and only one - drone, and DI gives 1 drone per level after the first). Then pilots who can't fit 5 drones in their ship won't be nerfed as much. (at level 5 in both skills, it'll be the same, but then pilot who can use only 3 drones would be able to get their 3 drones will full power for less training. Of course it would mean more training for people with less than 5 drones in their ship who don't want to use damage drones at all, and want to use webbers/ecm drones only. Maybe a silly idea, haven't thought much about it ;)
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Leneerra
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Posted - 2005.11.11 19:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Leneerra on 11/11/2005 19:52:42
I think reversing the skills as you just suggested is a good idear. And the drone interfacing could then be ajusted to need only drones at 3 or 4 before you are allowed to learn it to allow new characters some acces to multible drones at a lower level (like industry and mass production).
Would also mean that having interfacing at 5 gives a real advantage to heavy drone users, a 6th drone. as few ships would be able to field that much. The 6th drone could even be limited to being a ew drone for all i care to avoid a huge increase in dot for Drone carriers. Or they could get something other than 10% damage and 10% hp.
Accedentely 5% damage would make the 6 drones damage as 15 at level 5 (I like that, both the 5% damage and the effective damage of 15 at level 5).
might be that dronebay calculations to keep the multible flights ccp wanted to introduce a bit harder with this, but it feels a bit better to me this way
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Itisusia
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:20:00 -
[27]
Interfacing should boost every stat on each drone 20/40/60/80/100%. Why should someone who only spends 8? days training drones be as powerful as someone who spent another 25 training interfacing 5 in the ew aspect?
Interfacing only boosting dmg / mining is bull. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:53:00 -
[28]
I understand that this is not a nerf that only affects the Raven...it affects anyone without Drone Interfacing level 5, and that probably means all except drone specialists.
The reason we feel it more is that we were the most recently nerfed, so it just feels like "Oh, hell not AGAIN?!?".
As to the other drones, first thing that needs to be sorted is targetting...in terms of damage, they just go off and do as they will...if we are getting all this added functionality I don't want to have to be constantly rounding them up and telling them to paint/web/attack MY target instead of the Guristas Lookout they have suddenly taken an intense dislike too...
And specifically, for missiles target painter drones are going to suck. Good for about another ten points of damage from a Cruise missile or Torp, and that's assuming they are 30% strength (i.e. as good as a Tech II midslot painter) which I doubt.
Webber drones are again unlikely to be that effective...cos the missile equation is 99% sig radius based and very little speed based.
EW drones sound interesting, but I've never been a big EW player, so feel I am not qualified to comment.
Lots of changes being proposed at the moment...I REALLY hope CCP are referencing one against the other very carefully or we could be heading for a SERIOUS imbalance disaster.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Mahq Mur
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Posted - 2005.11.12 01:10:00 -
[29]
Afaik, these drone changes affect all ships, not only raven.
Just imagine a Domi with DI3.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.11.12 04:11:00 -
[30]
i would use 2 heavy web drones and 3 medium target painter drones or something o_O
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
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