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X ATM092
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 10:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the title says I want 30b for some trading. I have a load of stuff (primarily very liquid faction mods) that can be used to collateralise it.If anyone in Jita is familiar with the 'Faction Trade' mailing list (you contract them bulk mods at stated price, they give you isk within 24 hours, 30b is small change to them) they'll know my collateral can be liquidated back to 100% of the loan value instantly. The reason I don't just send them a load of faction mods instead of taking a loan is because they lowball the value a bit and I'd rather retain access to them if possible. That said, I'd be basing the value of the mods off of that lowballed value so I'll be overcollateralising the loan based upon what (I think) they're really worth.
Third party will be Chribba, I mailed him asking how how these things works and he explained I needed to get the guy loaning the isk to agree to precisely what collateral he wanted before I sent it so if you agree to the loan in principle post here or mail me in game and we'll sort out the details and then have Chribba confirm receipt of isk and collateral.
If you have any questions feel free to ask but I think I've covered all the essentials here. |
Herman Klaus
Touched By Klaus
4
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Posted - 2011.10.22 10:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stuff like this is new to me, hopefully you can explain. If the collateral is worth the value of the loan then why not just contract over the stuff privately to the lender? |
X ATM092
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 10:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because the collateral is worth more than the loan but is valued at the loan value if sold to buy orders. |
Blueprint Seller
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 11:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would want to see a list of the collateral so I can value it myself. |
X ATM092
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 11:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Then I, in turn, would want you to mail me in game. |
Blueprint Seller
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 11:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
In that case, I am no longer interested. |
egola
NSFW federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.22 14:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
i don't get it, if you have chribba hold onto the collateral, what's the risk of mentioning the collateral? |
Dyanmo
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 19:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
egola wrote:i don't get it, if you have chribba hold onto the collateral, what's the risk of mentioning the collateral?
+1, and I would like chribba to confirm about the fact that you mailed him and both parties agreed plus that you send the collateral to chribba first,
when that's done I'll consider investing |
X ATM092
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 23:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dyanmo wrote:egola wrote:i don't get it, if you have chribba hold onto the collateral, what's the risk of mentioning the collateral? +1, and I would like chribba to confirm about the fact that you mailed him and both parties agreed plus that you send the collateral to chribba first, when that's done I'll consider investing
To clarify, someone who wants to fill this loan or a part of this loan needs to mail me. I'll let them know what collateral I can offer and they'll choose what they want and how much of it. I then mail Chribba the details, get him to confirm in topic and send him collateral and the other guy sends me isk.
Chribba couldn't confirm receipt of collateral right now because he doesn't have it right now because this loan hasn't been filled yet. I don't get how so many people aren't understanding this. I agree on what I'll use for collateral privately with a prospective loaner and then we execute it through Chribba. |
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
10
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Posted - 2011.10.23 02:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Everyone understand the process, I think they just want you to either;
a) post the actual collateral
b) give a good reason why you won't
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Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2011.10.23 12:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
3% is a very low rate.
The kind of investor who is willing to accept that rate is the kind of investor who is unwilling to put effort in. To appeal to them your offering really needs to be all packaged and tied up in a pretty little bow.
Asking them to evaluate and negotiate the collateral with you means asking them to put effort in. Particularly since you come across as somewhat surly.
You haven't made it clear what will happen in the event of default. I suspect the arrangement Chribba is offering does not include liquidation of the collateral, he will simply turn it over to the investor. That's yet more effort for the investor as he will have to perform the liquidation.
All this for a 3% return for one month, after which the investor will have to find somewhere else to put their money.
It's not exactly an attractive proposal.
Now compare this to Grendel's bonds, where he does all the work for the investor, has a good reptuation and offers a better return. |
TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
7
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Posted - 2011.10.23 13:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
BB is spot on - and sums it all up pretty well.
Bad Bobby wrote:
The kind of investor who is willing to accept that rate is the kind of investor who is unwilling to put effort in. To appeal to them your offering really needs to be all packaged and tied up in a pretty little bow.
There's plenty of people in MD who could pull out 30B ISK and fill this without giving it a second thought (sum of ISK- wise).
But the same people are people who can't be arsed to get involved in a lot of hazzle for a "measly" 900M ISK return.
Make it easy ("all packaged and tied up in a pretty little bow"), regardless the outcome, and you'll have this filled in no time.
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X ATM092
The Hatchery
Team Liquid
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 00:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thanks for the advice BB. I figured 3% would be fine for a completely collateralised loan and that a negotiable choice of collateral would be preferred to a premade package but it would seem I was wrong. My desire for a third party may have overcomplicated things but I think my fear of being lowballed on the collateral and then having it stolen wasn't unreasonable. Either way, I was able to loan the money from corpmates so I'm gonna close this and just learn from it should I need isk in the future. |
TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
8
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Posted - 2011.10.24 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I think my fear of being lowballed on the collateral and then having it stolen wasn't unreasonable.
Let me add one last "info point"
Look at it from the perspective of the one giving the loan
"I'm afraid of over valuing the collateral, so that the loantaker will simply default on the loan"
- Leaving the loantaker with the potentially arduous task of offloading it all, maybe even at a loss.
The take away being : Your collateral will *always* be under valued.
Ultimately it comes down to trust - Just not for the full amount is all.
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