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Piracy: Merlin or Kestrel?

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DelBosco	Posted - 2005.11.11 03:30:00 - [1] For a starting out pirate, which ship would you reccomend and why? I've seen the Kestrel reccomended as a good pirating ship, but haven't seen the rational behind it. The Merlin also looks like a nice solid ship. Thoughts?
Sage Fire	Posted - 2005.11.11 05:35:00 - [2] I'm no pirate but this might be a pretty good explanation. The Merlin is a good frigate, but the Kestrel is superior in PVP. Though guns fire faster, missiles can do a ton of damage and need less skills to get in order to totally rock with them. In addition, switching out missile ammo types allows you to do all 4 types of damage, while hybrid railguns/blasters only do thermal and kinetic. (Kestrel works best with kinetic missiles with its damage bonus, though.) Although the 'missile nerf' makes it so large missiles can't do very much hurt to smaller ships, the Kestrel won't have this problem with this since it either uses light missiles or rockets. Light missiles give good range, with decent skills you can smack stuff past 30 KM. But with rockets you could do more damage over time (due to ROF) and could also free up lots of space for an afterburner and other things. This frigate works well with tackling gear (webber/warp jam) in the mids and armor repairing in the lows. Tired of pirating and want to do missions instead? The Kestrel also as a nice and large cargo space, so it makes a great looter for agent missions (as well as the Exequror) when equipped with a MWD. Just bookmark all the rooms in the agent mission, turn in the mission, and warp back and loot. With the deadspace removed there'll be no MWD restriction.
Kyozoku	Posted - 2005.11.11 09:47:00 - [3] Kessy now merlin after mk2.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.11.11 10:45:00 - [4] Actually without some decent missile skills the Kestrel isn't very good anymore. And I'm not even sure it's possible to fit a PvP setup with standard missiles. But after MK2, it's Merlin all the way We're the rats eating your pie!
Waltz Sachem	Posted - 2005.11.11 11:12:00 - [5] Put 4 rocket launchers on a kes and watch it rip things apart :)
KamikazeHamster	Posted - 2005.11.11 13:02:00 - [6] In 3 days you can have a Kestrel kitted out for piracy rather well (4x rocket launchers, AB, 2x 7.5k scramblers, 1x small armour rep) and with this you can pirate anything apart from large barges (with their drones) to mining cruisers. Just make sure you only lock once you are just about to hit scramble range (some people don't run until they notice you have locked them). By ransoming you can make a good few million or about the same in loot if you destroy ships (preferably ones with nice t2 stuff).
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.11 13:11:00 - [7] Kestrel 4x Rocket Scrambler, 2xwebber 1x400mm plate, MAPC You win vs nearly any inty and most AFs if you use this properly. Against larger ships, drop a web for an MWD or AB. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
without	Posted - 2005.11.11 13:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari Kestrel 4x Rocket Scrambler, 2xwebber 1x400mm plate, MAPC You win vs nearly any inty and most AFs if you use this properly. Against larger ships, drop a web for an MWD or AB. how do u plan to get itno range? ask them nicely not to shoot til ur both 5km from each oterh
Rutefly	Posted - 2005.11.11 13:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari Kestrel 4x Rocket Scrambler, 2xwebber 1x400mm plate, MAPC You win vs nearly any inty and most AFs if you use this properly. Against larger ships, drop a web for an MWD or AB. If the inty/AF driver doesnt fit any weapons or mod's, then maybe. Only maybe.
Jogyn	Posted - 2005.11.11 13:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Rutefly Originally by: Dark Shikari Kestrel 4x Rocket Scrambler, 2xwebber 1x400mm plate, MAPC You win vs nearly any inty and most AFs if you use this properly. Against larger ships, drop a web for an MWD or AB. If the inty/AF driver doesnt fit any weapons or mod's, then maybe. Only maybe. It can kill intys, maybe blaster AF¦s to. Not to sure about the other AF¦s though.
Drayco	Posted - 2005.11.11 15:20:00 - [11] If your looking to find a good frig in general since the kest and mer are kinda limited. I suggest a punisher. Take ya a bit to get up the laser skills but shes a nice cheap ship with good slots and mods.
Pinstripe Giamatti	Posted - 2005.11.11 16:39:00 - [12] I can see the rockets for ratting, where the NPCs won't have webbers, etc. But how do you get in range for enough rocket dmg without getting totally smacked? I tried Kessie with 4x rockets and a webber, and I couldn't kill anything with that before being chewed up myself. The range on the rockets is so short, you gotta be parked next to the target.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.11.11 16:57:00 - [13] Kestrel: You can drop the webs and replace them with a passive targeter and a target jammer if you are hunting barges specifically. That way, you have them locked as you approach and they don't even know it. By the time they can click to get the drones out, you've popped the barge, because there's a delay before they auto-defend if the barge can't target you. Kestrels are smallish and miners keep asteroids on their overview....just commando up to em and they may not even see you until you've squeezed off the shot. Kessies also have the cargo space to carry all those yummy barge mods. The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat.
xOm3gAx	Posted - 2005.11.11 19:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Kyozoku Kessy now merlin after mk2. /signed ----------------- Decloaks and starts blasting your sig Applesauce Biotch Ok who nerf batted my sig >again<? ^^Bows^^ ^^ALL HAIL THE UBERNESS OF Thee^^ Succumb to your nightmares Darkness
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.11.11 21:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Shikari Kestrel 4x Rocket Scrambler, 2xwebber 1x400mm plate, MAPC You win vs nearly any inty and most AFs if you use this properly. Against larger ships, drop a web for an MWD or AB. If you don't have an AB you're going to have to pretty much come out of warp ontop of them. I can't imagine using a kestrel without some sort of speed booster. Even then, a Merlin with 2 AM rails/blasters, and 2 rocket launchers may leave you hurting, or in a pod. I never really was a fan of being within rocket range until trying a setup last night. 2 blasters, 2 rocket launchers, AB, SB, a cap recharger, and maybe a pdu or 2. Never saw an NPC cruiser die that fast to any of my frigs, including my rocket Kestrel. It's hard for rockets to outdamage blasters when you land a good bit of well-aimed/excellent/perfect shots that do 40-50dmg each, if not more, altho due to the webbers they probably wouldnt get you in blaster range, but even 125mm rails with AM can get 6-10km range, which can be hard to reach with rockets. ------------------------------------ Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.13 01:02:00 - [16] That Kestrel setup will die to any frig, T1 or otherwise, set up for 15km effective range and warp disruptor use. Of the T1 frigates, I would go for the Incursus. Paper-thin, but you won't get a better trade-off between speed and DoT.
Septima Severa	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:58:00 - [17] Kestrels are made of paper, but they do pack a punch. PVP Kestrels FTW. 4x Rocket Launchers w/ Thorns MWD or AB, Scrambler, Shield Booster 2x Nanofiber Structures With that setup and some help from other ships that complemented its strengths and weaknesses (fast Rifters and tough Punishers), it has been able to take out: Mallers, Thorax's, Ruptures, and a very much confused Raven
Verone	Posted - 2005.11.13 12:30:00 - [18] If you're going to run a kestrel, Run it with some variation of this setup : 4x Rocket Launchers 7.5k scram, Web and 1mn AB (Named if you can get them) 400mm plate and a MAPC You could swap out the MAPC for something else if you have the skills run the setup without it. Basically, the Sheer DOT of the rockets on a kestrel tears most frigates apart in seconds, as long as you can survive long enough not to explode first. Just remember that with minimal skills, this is a VERY close range setup (under 5000m). So you'll be in webbing range for other ships. So take care not to explode
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.11.13 13:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Verone If you're going to run a kestrel, Run it with some variation of this setup : 4x Rocket Launchers 7.5k scram, Web and 1mn AB (Named if you can get them) 400mm plate and a MAPC You could swap out the MAPC for something else if you have the skills run the setup without it. Basically, the Sheer DOT of the rockets on a kestrel tears most frigates apart in seconds, as long as you can survive long enough not to explode first. Just remember that with minimal skills, this is a VERY close range setup (under 5000m). So you'll be in webbing range for other ships. So take care not to explode Follow the man! (TM) ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
DiabloStasas	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:03:00 - [20] yo i'm only a couple days old for EVE but i think i might have some ways to help the kesstrels bad range and it's low hps for the rocketry range, when you come out of warp couldn't you just use a simple MWD or AB to speed close to your target? and for the low hps on the kestrel couldn't you use shieldboosters/armor repairers to keep you from getting trashed before you can get the rockets off? feel free to correct me cause i don't know much about the game yet.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.04 10:44:00 - [21] Since people mentioned interceptors, a Crow just tears a Kestrel appart, before the fight really starts. Target, 3 salves, Kestrel poff, Crow scratched in the worst case, that was at least my experience against a newbie corp who war'decced us for whatever reason. I'm quite sure a rail taranis also just tears a kestrel apart without getting a lot of hits. ___________ 'Wanna-not-be forum warrior. <3'
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:47:00 - [22] Betcha my blackbird eats the crow, the kessy, and the merlin. So yeah forget all these ships, pirate in a Blackbird :) -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.12.04 14:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Snake Jankins Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/12/2005 11:18:31 Since people mentioned interceptors, a Crow just tears a Kestrel appart, before the fight really starts. Target, 3 salves, Kestrel poff, Crow scratched in the worst case, that was at least my experience against a newbie corp who war'decced us for whatever reason. I'm quite sure a rail taranis also just tears a kestrel apart without getting a lot of hits. Well duh! You're talking about ships that cost 30 times as much and take god knows how much skillpoints to fly. See how well they do against 3 or 4 kessies, all piloted by newbies with 400k isk kessies. Recruiting
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.04 15:13:00 - [24] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/12/2005 15:18:57 Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/12/2005 15:14:30 Originally by: Tobiaz Well duh! You're talking about ships that cost 30 times as much and take god knows how much skillpoints to fly. See how well they do against 3 or 4 kessies, all piloted by newbies with 400k isk kessies. No, I just answered to Dark, who mentioned kestrel vs. interceptor and I only wanted to say that I wouldn't try it against interceptors that stay out of webrange. I don't want to demotivate new people who use t1 frigs. Btw. I'm thinking about pirating myself at the moment, because I have this brand new char that was intended for something else, but I lost interest in that and I've never pirated. I think about using cruisers, I've never done much cruiser pvp. Blackbird is cool, but guess I try a Rupture or even a Stabber. It's only about fun, because I think I miss something without ever trying it out. Blowing up enemy haulers in 0.0 without a word is just not the same. I don't rely on being successful in the beginning, so I can just try some fun ships. ( And no, I won't stay in a npc corp. Somehow that wouldn't fit and guess one or the other war'dec from time to time is funny, too ) ___________ 'Wanna-not-be forum warrior. <3'
Nazzerin	Posted - 2005.12.04 17:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Betcha my blackbird eats the crow, the kessy, and the merlin. So yeah forget all these ships, pirate in a Blackbird :) And i bet my Cruise raven would make u run to the hills. Time to get back to topic or?
Drunkeh	Posted - 2005.12.04 17:40:00 - [26] Edited by: Drunkeh on 04/12/2005 17:40:42 Originally by: Snake Jankins Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/12/2005 15:18:57 Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/12/2005 15:14:30 Originally by: Tobiaz Well duh! You're talking about ships that cost 30 times as much and take god knows how much skillpoints to fly. See how well they do against 3 or 4 kessies, all piloted by newbies with 400k isk kessies. No, I just answered to Dark, who mentioned kestrel vs. interceptor and I only wanted to say that I wouldn't try it against interceptors that stay out of webrange. I don't want to demotivate new people who use t1 frigs. Btw. I'm thinking about pirating myself at the moment, because I have this brand new char that was intended for something else, but I lost interest in that and I've never pirated. I think about using cruisers, I've never done much cruiser pvp. Blackbird is cool, but guess I try a Rupture or even a Stabber. It's only about fun, because I think I miss something without ever trying it out. Blowing up enemy haulers in 0.0 without a word is just not the same. I don't rely on being successful in the beginning, so I can just try some fun ships. ( And no, I won't stay in a npc corp. Somehow that wouldn't fit and guess one or the other war'dec from time to time is funny, too ) No, you are wrong. A rocket/plate kestral would slaughter a crow in a fight. As long as the kestral pilot isnt a complete moron.
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:48:00 - [27] Hm - i think the best frigate to start piracy with is a scorpion Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire.
Psycarne	Posted - 2005.12.04 20:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Lifewire Hm - i think the best frigate to start piracy with is a scorpion No but a moros dread could beat it!!!!111 ------------- Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship. Removed - Innapropriate material contained in signature -Daigon Is it becuase I am scum? :(
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Drunkeh No, you are wrong. A rocket/plate kestral would slaughter a crow in a fight. As long as the kestral pilot isnt a complete moron. Hmm, have to try that out. Imho it depends all on if you are able to catapult your kestrel with your mwd in web range or not in the first seconds of the fight. Maybe I overestimate the agility and speed of the crow to avoid that. ___________ 'Wanna-not-be forum warrior. <3'
Fal Aren	Posted - 2005.12.05 02:59:00 - [30] Oh, and can't fit the same -ab +a second webber due to CPU requirements....
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.05 03:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Nazzerin Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Betcha my blackbird eats the crow, the kessy, and the merlin. So yeah forget all these ships, pirate in a Blackbird :) And i bet my Cruise raven would make u run to the hills. Time to get back to topic or? Betcha it wont if I lock you first. Course I wont kill you but i can still sit and laugh at you =) -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Aeid Nomais	Posted - 2005.12.06 02:48:00 - [32] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Originally by: Nazzerin Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Betcha my blackbird eats the crow, the kessy, and the merlin. So yeah forget all these ships, pirate in a Blackbird :) And i bet my Cruise raven would make u run to the hills. Time to get back to topic or? Betcha it wont if I lock you first. Course I wont kill you but i can still sit and laugh at you =) until his backup arrives O.o . Btw: I vote kestrel simply cause of good memories.

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