I'm not really a miner, but I've read complains in the forums about the Procurer and Skiff being highly unused due to the other 4 mining ships being much better. These 2 ships were supposed to be ideal for low and null mining, but it's pretty evident they're not popular at all.

So, in the spirit of conversation and the intention of solving this problem (and also because I read Fozzie was considering giving them turret hardpoints), why not make give them a large drone bay (225m3 maybe?) and 125mbps bandwidth, along with a 50% drone speed role bonus?

The Procurer is a 6 million ISK cruiser with a 65k ehp tank and locking speed of a frigate... and you think it's a good idea to give it the potential DPS of a combat battlecruiser (~450 dps)?


The real problem is that the Retriever and Mackinaw (specifically the latter) are a bit too good. Nerf their tanks a bit and you'll have more reason to use a Procurer or Skiff (or even a Covetor or Hulk) instead.

The Procurer is a 6 million ISK cruiser with a 65k ehp tank and locking speed of a frigate... and you think it's a good idea to give it the potential DPS of a combat battlecruiser (~450 dps)?


The real problem is that the Retriever and Mackinaw (specifically the latter) are a bit too good. Nerf their tanks a bit and you'll have more reason to use a Procurer or Skiff (or even a Covetor or Hulk) instead.

I think they need to test the waters, with something limited.

Put up a Pirate Hull cruiser that can fit a single Strip Miner, (or any sub category of such).

Give it a 4k ore hold, so it is heavily dependant on needing to constantly offload.

Push it to have the same bonuses on speed and efficiency as the procurer. We are talking about a limited presence pirate hull, not something that will ever replace the procurer due to cost alone.

The Pirate Miner, Angel Excavator, Mordus Mining, I am sure many names could appear.

I still think improving drone capabilities of the barges/exhumers is a better idea than adding turret slots. They'd just be used for mining lasers for MOAR YIELD!

I'm also of the opinion that just because the exhumers are tech 2, doesn't mean they should get even more yield over their t1 counterparts. I'd like to see them even more specialised in their roles. Perhaps the hulk can keep that 1% per level bonus to yield, but the mack should have its ore bay size linked to exhumer level, and the skiff could benefit from a drone damage/mining/hitpoint bonus per level perhaps. Shake things up a bit.

Two nerfs that could be needed are a 33% scan res reduction and 25% ehp reduction. A lone miner would still most likely die to other players, but a miner fleet could be a deterrent.

I must be missing the context of this.

How would changing the Procurer and Skiff in this manner improve their usefulness, and make them chosen more often?

With too high a dps and the same tank and scan res as before, these ships would be better choices for fleets than most combat ships.

Procurer/Skiff are well balanced for tank. They do require an escort in low/null/W-space but this is as intended. They can tank long enough for the escort to chase away attackers.

Retriever/Mackinaw are not balanced. They have too many HP's. They need a slight nerf to make the Procurer/Skiff more apealing in High sec

Covetor/Hulk are balanced with HP but lack a certain umph to make them actually appealing. A role bonus to Strip Miner/Ice harvester range would probably fit in really well with the "Fleet" role of this hull.

Now, if only actual gameplay reflected this design ideal.

Real gameplay has zero escorts, and you can listen in on intel channels focused on PvP. Hopefully they will provide info you can also use, but they are more general purpose.
Real gameplay has miners in null watching local, and evading threats entirely. As this is expected, the PvP pilots consider themselves free to do more interesting things.

With no escort, the tank is a meaningless detail. You either get safe or you don't.

You do realize the Procurer and the Skiff have the speed and handling of a house brick right?

Procurer/Skiff are well balanced for tank. They do require an escort in low/null/W-space but this is as intended. They can tank long enough for the escort to chase away attackers.

Retriever/Mackinaw are not balanced. They have too many HP's. They need a slight nerf to make the Procurer/Skiff more apealing in High sec

Covetor/Hulk are balanced with HP but lack a certain umph to make them actually appealing. A role bonus to Strip Miner/Ice harvester range would probably fit in really well with the "Fleet" role of this hull.

I agree with you on the line of thinking but the details are different.

Covetor/ Hulk have too low a hold and no role bonus. You can't expect balance when you give huge bonus in the form of role to some ships and not others.

Ret and Mack are speed miners. Alone or in group they can tear through resources quicker than the other ships. You could debate they even beat hulks in that department because it's 8:1 before the Hulk catches up and unless you see mining Ops in the 100+ range, that will remain.

Proc and Skiff are a ******* brick. They defy most battleships in EHP and they have enough role bonus to make them still chug along. If you mine a lot in .5 space you can do this with a Skiff and you will still be there when Concord show up, short of a 12 man gank or something. I don't know if CCP look at EVE from an Empires standpoint and see .5 space as their deep space, so that's where the Proc and Skiff were seen as useful but once you get to low and null, Gank beats tank and it's more about what time do I mine and what time do I fight? You can't make them battle ready. Any of them.

High sec ganking is exactly why the skiff and procurer have their current stats, no changes are necessary, you have a fleet option, a storage option and a tanky option. The same model should be applied to industrial ships too.

Given a procurer can take down a cruiser very easily and anything too big for it is bomber food, I'd say boosting them isn't a good idea. The skiff can tank like a T3 and you're saying we should have guns on that thing?

Procurer and Skiff.

Designed to be the least vulnerable to hostile attention, thanks to a tank.

Still makes no sense to even be in exposed space with hostiles present, and Macks and Hulks can just as easily evade them when prepared.

Having a great tank but no offense? You just die slower, if you are still on grid with hostiles.

Escort fleets should be doing anomalies/ratting whilst in system providing security.

If ratting was actually interesting and had a good income this would "entertain" the escorts between threats coming into system.

that tank is for pve i thought... so it cant tank belt spawns till a friend shows up to blow them up.

0.0 belts need to be removed and replaced with annoms that are filled with rocks but also have lots of rats to kill... that way you keep the ratters happy and you provide defence for the miner.

At this point in time the Venture offers the highest chance of success and some reward for my time. The barges are almost certain death. The key thing the Venture has is its quick align time and +2 Warp stab bonus. The rest is gravy. If the Procurer/Skiff had the same, I'd immediately abandon the Venture in favor of one of those ships.

Hi Nikk, I totally agree with you (again).

I'm wondering though if it is not a bad thing. The game, by design, is tilted towards group play. So mining in low/null sec with exhumers can only be done in an appropriate group. The risks/rewards are shared among its members and that is the way the devs have designed it. Soloing a mining barge can only be successful in high-sec by design.

I see them all the time. Saved a few miners in our system because they were in a Procurer.

And been baited by some while they were mining.

They work.

125 bandwitch on t1 mining barage ? Sure nothing wrong with better bandwitch than prophecy or myrmidon battlecruisers , dedicated drone platforms i may add. Go on ...

What bothers me the most is that people for some reason think I'm suggesting this so barges can have a fighting chance against other players. The general idea for this is not to decrease risk, but to make rewards more attractive for those who are willing to invest the effort.