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RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
174
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
If CCP woke up this morning and realized (eveyone already knows) Dust is doomed for failure and they cannot keep losing money, how much would CCP have lost if they terminted it now rather than later inregards salaries (Including MintChips new salary), overhead and overall costs.
I own a small side business and if I saw something going sour I would cut my loses and close shop which is what I think CCP should do before they waste any more capital on this so called FPS game. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

Vincenzo Arbosa
Badabing Salvage Corp
14
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
RomeStar wrote: I own a small side business and if I saw something going sour I would cut my loses and close shop which is what I think CCP should do before they waste any more capital on this so called FPS game.
But aren't lemonade stands, by virtue of their very product, always 'going sour'?
You make me laugh. You shoot em, we loot em.. that's mother truckinGÇÖ right http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuyLTDAC7fE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oz3RpU45_E
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RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
174
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Posted - 2013.06.10 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vincenzo Arbosa wrote:RomeStar wrote: I own a small side business and if I saw something going sour I would cut my loses and close shop which is what I think CCP should do before they waste any more capital on this so called FPS game.
But aren't lemonade stands, by virtue of their very product, always 'going sour'? You make me laugh.
Good one yes they are sour but thats why I add rum.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

0Lona 0ltor
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2013.06.11 16:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP are obliged to keep Dust running through virtue of contractual agreements with Sony. Even if dust is hemorrhaging money CCP have no option but to continue it. |

Sayf ulMulk
Royal Starlancers
11
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dust will not be closed for the reasons the poster above me made. CCP is bound by agreement. CCP will never admit their failure as they mostly never did in past. Anyone remembers the stunt with eve voice for 100 bucks and then freely integrated to eve as a free feature?
Dust will continue on console for several years. The ps4 version will require major rework of code. PS3 dust will have from 100-1000 players trough this period but will go on. However to gaming community it will be dead. Only people who will play it will be people who play eve and people who check whats happening on their old ps3 once a month. Im actualy sorry for people who spend 100-200 bucks on boosters and packs on stuff since most of the current community will leave as soon as ps4 shows up. |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
176
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:CCP are obliged to keep Dust running through virtue of contractual agreements with Sony. Even if dust is hemorrhaging money CCP have no option but to continue it.
So all eve players are paying a small pct of their subs to support a losing venture. You would think the income from eve would be better spent on projects that interest eve players rather than a fail game on an outdated console.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

C DeLeon
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys HUN Reloaded
142
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rome Star do you even played the game when you claim it doomed to failure?
It's true that the active player base is low but it could go only higher from here when ps4 client will be released and additional content will keep coming. The main reason why it's low because of the lack of content and variety. But if the game fails on console on the long run from a financial standpoint, CCP can turn it around by releasing on PC and making an important part for example in null wars. There are lots of eve bittervets seeking for casual gameplay experiences in other mmos what eve can't provide. They would play the crap out of it.
If the game will run for years it could grow something really awesome with a decent follower base and then all these 'Dust is dead" threads will be just bad trolling attempts. |

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
515
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Posted - 2013.06.11 18:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
DUST is dying, etc.
Christ, one day I should dig up Eve-O forum posts from ten years ago so you could see what a parrot you really are.
Want a cracker? Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |

Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
211
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Posted - 2013.06.11 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:If CCP woke up this morning and realized (eveyone already knows) Dust is doomed for failure and they cannot keep losing money, how much would CCP have lost if they terminted it now rather than later inregards salaries (Including MintChips new salary), overhead and overall costs.
I own a small side business and if I saw something going sour I would cut my loses and close shop which is what I think CCP should do before they waste any more capital on this so called FPS game. Thats what people used to say about eve. Good thing CCP doesnt listen to the shortsighted, the dumb or the cowardly ;)
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
176
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
I see it has resorted to insults because I claim Dust is a failure. I know the truth hurts and when dust starts to fall apart at an accelerated pace because it isnt on the PS4 yet I will direct you to this post. So much for a civil discussion but if you overzealous fanboys want to kiss CCPs arsse im sure there are better ways to do it rather than praise a less than stellar fps console game that has the perfect name DUST because thats all its going to ammount to.
. This post has been trolled and I thank you for all the fish ( I mean bumps).
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
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zerokmatrix
Federation Mission Acedemy
16
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Posted - 2013.06.13 10:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would like to know where these people who are saying "Dust is doomed", "Dust is a failure", "Dust won't survive the PS4 launch" etc. etc. are getting there FACTS from? Are you in possession of CCP's Dust statistics?? If yes, the please publish them. If no, then how do YOU know a) how many accounts Dust has in total and active? b) how much players have and are spending on AUR? c) if the numbers of players is more or less than CCP projected to be playing at this stage? Also do you know for CERTAIN that a PS4 version is or is not in development/planned?
Comparing Dust 514 to Halo / Call of Duty / Killzone / Destiny or any other ordinary FPS is a misguided because is isn't an ordinary FPS. It is an MMOFPS with a totally different income stream. It is still introducing all of it's features, it isn't a finished game. It attracts a different kind of player and new people are discovering the game all the time.
I personally think 10,000+ players daily is not a bad start.
This subject will always, always, always keep cropping up from someone, in the same way EVE has had at least one person posting that "Eve is doomed", "Eve is dying" etc. etc. since it started a decade ago.
One last point, about the PS4. If the PS3 is going to be obsolete the instant the PS4 is released then why are so many game manufactures and publishers still working on unreleased PS3 games? Why aren't they cutting their loses and scrapping the 100's of titles that will be released this year and next.? Why did Sony confirm it's continuing support of the PS3 at E3 instead of telling everyone to clear space in their trash bins for it, come December? The traditional things that happen in the games market when new consoles are released are not going happen in the same way as when the PS3 and Xbox360 were released. It will happen differently this time we can all see that. PS. |

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
20177
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes, Dust is a special fps that cannot be compared to Planetside 2, a free to play mmofps with a thriving playerbase because....
Its on pc, is coming to PS3/4 as a first party launch title whereas Dust is Dust. This is a futile argument l, unlike Eve Dust is not operating as the establishment of its genre or with a legacy. The server usage statistics are on eve-offline, and when playing on my console I forgot Dust even existed it was that unmemorable.
Ps4 is out later this year with BF4 and PS2, and lets not even compare it to Destiny.
Dust needs a lot of development and I would hope more rpg openworld mechanics. Only so many times the dirt colony can be saved before you get bored of it.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |

Lubre Ztripp
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.14 08:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well when it fails they can always take the code and using magic, turn it into a PC game, then open "the DOOR" to it. |

Sayf ulMulk
Royal Starlancers
12
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Posted - 2013.06.14 13:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
zerokmatrix wrote:I would like to know where these people who are saying "Dust is doomed", "Dust is a failure", "Dust won't survive the PS4 launch" etc. etc. are getting there FACTS from? Are you in possession of CCP's Dust statistics?? If yes, the please publish them. If no, then how do YOU know a) how many accounts Dust has in total and active? b) how much players have and are spending on AUR? c) if the numbers of players is more or less than CCP projected to be playing at this stage? Also do you know for CERTAIN that a PS4 version is or is not in development/planned?
Comparing Dust 514 to Halo / Call of Duty / Killzone / Destiny or any other ordinary FPS is a misguided because is isn't an ordinary FPS. It is an MMOFPS with a totally different income stream. It is still introducing all of it's features, it isn't a finished game. It attracts a different kind of player and new people are discovering the game all the time.
I personally think 10,000+ players daily is not a bad start.
This subject will always, always, always keep cropping up from someone, in the same way EVE has had at least one person posting that "Eve is doomed", "Eve is dying" etc. etc. since it started a decade ago.
One last point, about the PS4. If the PS3 is going to be obsolete the instant the PS4 is released then why are so many game manufactures and publishers still working on unreleased PS3 games? Why aren't they cutting their loses and scrapping the 100's of titles that will be released this year and next.? Why did Sony confirm it's continuing support of the PS3 at E3 instead of telling everyone to clear space in their trash bins for it, come December? The traditional things that happen in the games market when new consoles are released are not going happen in the same way as when the PS3 and Xbox360 were released. It will happen differently this time we can all see that.
A. We know that Dust is failing due to public informations about players online vs new accounts created. B. Lot of players are buying aurum however those are mostly players who play eve so they are heavily invested in that. C. PS4 version is planed by CCP however will take minimum year or two to appear in beta. At that time market will be complelty elsewhere. D. It doesnt have 10 k players it has only 5-6k now. E. Yes the game will advance step by step however as i said market and eve will be different at that point. No 0.0 entity will allow ccp to connect dust to eve fully with decaying playerbase so only 1-2k players would hold 0.0 empires as hostages. Dust is locked in circle since it cant advance due to limited playerbase. |

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
189
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Posted - 2013.06.14 15:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sayf ulMulk wrote:zerokmatrix wrote:I would like to know where these people who are saying "Dust is doomed", "Dust is a failure", "Dust won't survive the PS4 launch" etc. etc. are getting there FACTS from? Are you in possession of CCP's Dust statistics?? If yes, the please publish them. If no, then how do YOU know a) how many accounts Dust has in total and active? b) how much players have and are spending on AUR? c) if the numbers of players is more or less than CCP projected to be playing at this stage? Also do you know for CERTAIN that a PS4 version is or is not in development/planned?
Comparing Dust 514 to Halo / Call of Duty / Killzone / Destiny or any other ordinary FPS is a misguided because is isn't an ordinary FPS. It is an MMOFPS with a totally different income stream. It is still introducing all of it's features, it isn't a finished game. It attracts a different kind of player and new people are discovering the game all the time.
I personally think 10,000+ players daily is not a bad start.
This subject will always, always, always keep cropping up from someone, in the same way EVE has had at least one person posting that "Eve is doomed", "Eve is dying" etc. etc. since it started a decade ago.
One last point, about the PS4. If the PS3 is going to be obsolete the instant the PS4 is released then why are so many game manufactures and publishers still working on unreleased PS3 games? Why aren't they cutting their loses and scrapping the 100's of titles that will be released this year and next.? Why did Sony confirm it's continuing support of the PS3 at E3 instead of telling everyone to clear space in their trash bins for it, come December? The traditional things that happen in the games market when new consoles are released are not going happen in the same way as when the PS3 and Xbox360 were released. It will happen differently this time we can all see that. A. We know that Dust is failing due to public informations about players online vs new accounts created. B. Lot of players are buying aurum however those are mostly players who play eve so they are heavily invested in that. C. PS4 version is planed by CCP however will take minimum year or two to appear in beta. At that time market will be complelty elsewhere. D. It doesnt have 10 k players it has only 5-6k now. E. Yes the game will advance step by step however as i said market and eve will be different at that point. No 0.0 entity will allow ccp to connect dust to eve fully with decaying playerbase so only 1-2k players would hold 0.0 empires as hostages. Dust is locked in circle since it cant advance due to limited playerbase.
Those numbers tell the truth. Amount of active players is dwindling from 9 to the bottom of the graph http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust
When you think it's free to play, read the reviews, and realize so many people can play it on only one kind of console, also next generation of consoles will be bought by many players cause of hype, together with new hyped games, its like a death sentence for DUST.  New CQ prototype |

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
19
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Posted - 2013.06.15 18:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Persistence in business involves risk taking otherwise the business remains stagnant and does not grow but rather enjoys a slow lingering death.
If CCP didn't persist in developing EvE Online and take risks as well then EvE Online would have been dead along time ago.
Don't cross the ferry lest you fear the monsters swimming underneath of it. |

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
191
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Posted - 2013.06.16 21:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Traitor? 
Big word, players just change games. New CQ prototype |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
195
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seriously I would like to hear from someone at CCP regarding how much time and resources (including cash) that they have put into Dust and how much have they made off of it? Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
79
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
well you better make friends with someone that's at the top of ccp if you want that info because thats nothing that will ever be publisized. money isn't everything you know. The bitterest truth is better than the sweetest lie. |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
200
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
fuer0n wrote:well you better make friends with someone that's at the top of ccp if you want that info because thats nothing that will ever be publisized. money isn't everything you know.
If money isnt everything then give me yours yeah thats what I thought. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
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fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
i would give you my last penny if i thought you needed it. but you don't. The bitterest truth is better than the sweetest lie. |

PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
359
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
So much useless crap here.
So a few points, CCP likely defines success differently than you do. Calling Dust a failure based on your metric is fine, but CCP likely doesn't consider it one. CCP also doesn't blink at low numbers, or bad initial phases. CCP has, and is, about constant, and consistent iteration and progress. Where as EA will throw out a new COD every year, CCP will release two expansion for EVE, for free. It is a different business model entirely.
So why then, are you using inappropriate metrics for a different business model? Would CCP shut down EVE 3 months after launch because of a few bugs, or subscriber numbers going down? No, because that isn't what they measure progress by. It is an indicator, but not something they shut down over.
Then, of course, you get into business aspects. The development of Dust is a sunk cost. They gain, literally, nothing by shutting down. The servers they use, they already pay for, and use with EVE. They could shutter the Shanghai studio, but, it is far easier to move them over to WOD development and not have to hire and train new people.
So why then, would they shut down a service, when all they pay for really, is the people working on the game to make it better. There seems to be this idea that CCP is throwing out barrels of cash on Dust, when its got a few devs working on it, and no real marginal cost to do so.
Then, there's the idea that DUST is a gateway drug to EVE, so all of the mass press they've gotten to the brand via Dust, has been a benefit to EVE in terms of new people trying it out (and likely hating it) or at least learning of the brand so that when WOD drops, it will have a better and more successful marketing launch.
Or, the aspect that DUST is an experiment with which they can play with Tranquility and business models (Aurum is wildly more used in Dust than eve for a reason) that the fanbase in EVE is much less tolerant of failure on.
WAIT, no, shut it down, and pull the plug because the active player numbers are dropping after 6 weeks post launch, and some dude on the forums thinks he knows how CCP runs its business better than CCP does.  |

Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
78
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Posted - 2013.07.30 21:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Then, there's the idea that DUST is a gateway drug to EVE, so all of the mass press they've gotten to the brand via Dust, has been a benefit to EVE in terms of new people trying it out (and likely hating it) or at least learning of the brand so that when WOD drops, it will have a better and more successful marketing launch. 
Gateway drugs work best when they make you feel good. Starting out with a bad trip is not good.
Of course, I'm just pissed because Dust fried my PS3, so nothing I say really counts, but anyway:
Eve could afford to start slow (and crappy) and build on that because it is obviously a game meant for the long term, and they had NO COMPETITION.
Dust on the other hand caters to the console twitch-freaks with the attention span of a gold fish. If it's not good RIGHT NOW, most people are going to ignore it and play something else. The only ones left are the hardcore crowd, and the occasional Eve pilot.
Also - right now the game is just not very good. It's grey and boring, laggy, unbalanced and has crude graphics (And it still crashes PS3's left and right...).
The only thing it has going for it is it's future potential. Problem is - that's in the future. No one is going to start playing a game they never heard of before because it might be good two years from now. |

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
610
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 06:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Souxie Alduin wrote: Eve could afford to start slow (and crappy) and build on that because it is obviously a game meant for the long term, and they had NO COMPETITION.
You are right, your opinion does not count, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Eve-O had plenty of competition from the get-go from the likes of Earth and Beyond and Star Wars Galaxies, both from major publishers (EA and Sony respectively). And unlike now, CCP had hardly any other source of income than Eve-O, except from The Danger Game, AND they even had to pay an external publisher for selling Eve-O. (These were the days when games were sold in boxes in stores, meaning, you lost money on production if nobody would buy the game).
DUST is having a freaking easy time compared to that, and I am certain the game will run for years to come. Not because I claim to know CCP's business plan, but because I am certain CCP knows how to run things on a small scale and not immediately shut a game down, just because it does not attract 12 million subscribers. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |

Roga Dracor
Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood
547
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Look at the beginnings of Eve, and how far it has come.. Many of us will linger, in the hopes that CCP exploits the POTENTIAL in Dust.. I know many of the day to day gripes of players, being one. But at the end of the day, many of us will stay, and keep supporting Dust, because it has potential.. Don't count it out yet.. Dust is dead only in the eyes of COD and WOW minded individuals.. As an Eve player, and computer gamer from WAY back, it only justifies the contempt many of us have for consolers and their two minute attention span. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
464
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Posted - 2013.08.27 21:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:So all eve players are paying a small pct of their subs to support a losing venture. You would think the income from eve would be better spent on projects that interest eve players rather than a fail game on an outdated console. This is the most asinine reasoning I have ever heard. You pay your subscription to play Eve. CCP can take your money and burn it in their fireplaces to survive the Icelandic winter if they wanted. STFU and go back to carebearing.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |

BOHC Lotteries
BOHC Lotteries Corp
11
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Posted - 2013.08.29 08:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Basically long story short CCP isnt out that much money.
Sony helped foot the bill for some development as a part of the exclusive. CCP offered a ton of different ways for console kiddies to pay to play. The amount of people running around with aurum toys is proof their micro transaction was a sucess. Add on the various collectors type stuff they offered and they will have made more then if they charged $60 a copy.
Hardware wise they already have significant assests with how they run eve. So its not even like they had to go buy super special ****.
The only thing they are out if anything is their operating costs of staff. Considering here again they didnt rush out and bring in tons of help and developed mostly in house they arent out as much.
figure this way if all 500k active subscriptions to eve are paying 10$ a month to play(I lowballed here as if everyone bought 12 months of gt at a time) eve brings in $5m a month. Figure 80% of that goes to operating all of this and developing their new ideas.
End of the year they are still looking at 12m/ year in pure profits. (Again low ball math with estimates) None of this includes to extra plex sales.
The biggest reason Dust isnt more of a sucess stems from the complications of dust (consule bunnies dont like complicated.) The graphics arent as pretty as they should be and its not fully intergrated with eve in some fashion. Add to that the mini content releases that need to be more along the lines of DLC scope then micro transaction scope and they could see a cult following like socom or MAG.
THat is the actual target audience. The CoD and BF kids will constantly game bounce..Which means for a while your average may be 20k at the start but stabilize at around the 5k mark.
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Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
148
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Posted - 2013.08.29 21:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
BOHC Lotteries wrote:The biggest reason Dust isnt more of a sucess stems from the complications of dust (consule bunnies dont like complicated.) The graphics arent as pretty as they should be and its not fully intergrated with eve in some fashion. Add to that the mini content releases that need to be more along the lines of DLC scope then micro transaction scope and they could see a cult following like socom or MAG.
THat is the actual target audience. The CoD and BF kids will constantly game bounce..Which means for a while your average may be 20k at the start but stabilize at around the 5k mark.
This is dead on. The mainstream game jumpers aren't going to stay here either way, they go from big budget release to big budget release several times a year. There's no good incentive for CCP to go after that crowd. |

Craterius
Symple Onez
46
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 18:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:If CCP woke up this morning and realized (eveyone already knows) Dust is doomed for failure and they cannot keep losing money, how much would CCP have lost if they terminted it now rather than later inregards salaries (Including MintChips new salary), overhead and overall costs.
I own a small side business and if I saw something going sour I would cut my loses and close shop which is what I think CCP should do before they waste any more capital on this so called FPS game.
The basic problem is the grand concept for Dust 514 is fundamentally flawed: meld an FPS played by 12 year-olds on the PS3 with EvE, a sophisticated sandbox game with a steep learning curve, played by adults.
The current CEO is wedded to the effort, no matter what the cost. His job and his bonuses depend upon Dust 514 succeeding. Two years ago, when CCP was forced to fire 20% of its work force because the EvE cash cow could not support all the peripheral projects, he acknowledged he was "arrogant", and he had "made mistakes".
Since then, nothing good has happened. The worst result has been the dumbing down of EvE (see the new exploration "updates"), and now Dust (see the aimbot). These appear to be desperation measures to try to hang on to the fickle 12 year old shooters. So, EvE is being sacrificed to the flawed grand concept. This will not end until somebody gets fired within CCP.
Since CCP has obviously bet the farm on Dust 514, this simply cannot not end well for EvE.
Way too bad. |
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