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Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:15:00 - [1] Edited by: Hoap on 13/11/2005 08:15:51 Im moving this from another thread because it was getting off the topic Eve is sealing its own fate by the upward class warfare where a frig can attack anything above it but a battle ship cant hit anything below it effectively. under no circumstances should a battle ship have to run away from a group of 5, 10, even 20 frigs. thats like saying a guy in a 15' speed boat could make the USS NIMITZ turn tail and run. with each patch that comes and goes ccp makes it more and more difficult for a battle ship to defend against smaller ships untill the only thing a BS can hit is a BC or another BS. when i gave my opinion that the missile nerf was a bad idea and that they should have made the other guns match the abbilities of the missiles i was told that they couldnt do that because the battleships would have pwn'd to much. to that i say THEY ARE BATTLESHIPS!!!!!!!!! THATS WHAT THEYRE SUPPOSED TO DO make the battleships a worth while investment, right now a cruiser or hac is more worth the money then a BS
MarkX	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:18:00 - [2] I can understand where you are coming from with this, and many people will just say adapt or die; or attempt to flame. However, I agree with the nerf. Actually, I would concider it a buff. With the new skills, the Raven and any missle tank loadout you run is more powerful than ever. T2 Cruise, Wrath Missiles, all new skills at level 4 or 5, you can pop a frigate before your 6 ogre's can. Only downfall for me is, I dont like the Raven lol. But yes, train more skills, switch to cruise from torps, you're in the money.
Ombey	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:18:00 - [3] Edited by: Ombey on 13/11/2005 08:18:45 Using your own analogy, do you think the Nimitz's deck guns could hit a fast moving speedboat which is close to it?
hoaps surgery	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Ombey Edited by: Ombey on 13/11/2005 08:18:45 Using your own analogy, do you think the Nimitz's deck guns could hit a fast moving speedboat which is close to it? infact the nimitz wich is a carrier because i couldnt think of the name of a battleship CAN shoot down things moving as fast as missiles
Beringe	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:21:00 - [5] The sky is falling! The sky is falling! ------------------------------------------- Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:22:00 - [6] Originally by: MarkX I can understand where you are coming from with this, and many people will just say adapt or die; or attempt to flame. However, I agree with the nerf. Actually, I would concider it a buff. With the new skills, the Raven and any missle tank loadout you run is more powerful than ever. T2 Cruise, Wrath Missiles, all new skills at level 4 or 5, you can pop a frigate before your 6 ogre's can. Only downfall for me is, I dont like the Raven lol. But yes, train more skills, switch to cruise from torps, you're in the money. yes the missiles can hit frigs effectively with the new skills, but what about everyone else, i use lasers even with max skills i cant hit a frig with large lasers unless its 30km or farther away
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:22:00 - [7] The Sky is falling! NOS, Smartbomb, Drones Webber, you'll prolly still die but you will take a lot of frigs with you. Hacs are more expensive than Battleships atm and the insurance payout is way way less. Cruisers are prolly the ship class thats in most need of a little boost tough i am oke with how they are atm. Frigs/Battleships meachanics are fine. Every time you try to use Real Life for gameplay balance God kills a kitten. Save the kittens. Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Alex Kynes	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Hoap Edited by: Hoap on 13/11/2005 08:15:51 ...thats like saying a guy in a 15' speed boat could make the USS NIMITZ turn tail and run... Would this ship ever travel without escort of smaller ships in times of war? I don't know, but I can bet my liver that it wouldn't. Does this USS NIMITZ only mount uber high caliber guns or does it mount some smaller guns, AA guns and missiles to defend agains different types of threats? I don't know, but, again, I can get my liver it does. If the OP and others don't see the point of my post, well, it's no wonder you cry when a few friggies blow up your prized battleships. -AK
Sam Comco	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:23:00 - [9] I always felt the larger ships should have large and small guns, but that would require some adjustments to the whole slot system and throw the balance into a chaotic spin :P
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Tiuwaz Every time you try to use Real Life for gameplay balance God kills a kitten. Save the kittens. Im a dog person
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Alex Kynes Originally by: Hoap Edited by: Hoap on 13/11/2005 08:15:51 ...thats like saying a guy in a 15' speed boat could make the USS NIMITZ turn tail and run... Would this ship ever travel without escort of smaller ships in times of war? I don't know, but I can bet my liver that it wouldn't. Does this USS NIMITZ only mount uber high caliber guns or does it mount some smaller guns, AA guns and missiles to defend agains different types of threats? I don't know, but, again, I can get my liver it does. If the OP and others don't see the point of my post, well, it's no wonder you cry when a few friggies blow up your prized battleships. -AK To this all i can say is CCP GIVE ME MORE HIGHSLOTS
Ultim8Evil	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:30:00 - [12] Doesn't it seem obvious to you why the BS can be taken down by a fleet of frigs? Think how boring the game would be if it was just a case of who had the best gank/tank BS? yawn This encourages frig fleet battles and makes players think outside of the box over how to take down a BS cheaply... or of course you could just dock and swap ships for your own gank/tank BS :D
hoaps surgery	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Ultim8Evil Doesn't it seem obvious to you why the BS can be taken down by a fleet of frigs? Think how boring the game would be if it was just a case of who had the best gank/tank BS? yawn This encourages frig fleet battles and makes players think outside of the box over how to take down a BS cheaply... or of course you could just dock and swap ships for your own gank/tank BS :D to fight against another BS would be a dream to me as of yet havent seen many out to fight. sit in 0.0 and watch a gate and u will see this, hac, hac, cruiser, frig, frig, hauler, hac, cruiser, shuttle, shuttle, noob, noob, wtf where are all the BS's
Gaven Lok'ri	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:35:00 - [14] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 13/11/2005 08:37:09 Something called Nos and drones. Try useing it if you want to try solo Battleships. Also battleships can hit cruisers if you are at range. So a fleet of cruisers supported by a battleship will beat a slightly larger fleet of cruisers, almost every time. In RL a fleet where the capital units outnumber the CLs and DDs is a fleet that is considered incomplete. The same applies in EVE. God is with us.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:40:00 - [15] OHNOES RUN FOR THE HILLS EVERYONE !!!11 Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Hoap To this all i can say is CCP GIVE ME MORE HIGHSLOTS 8 not enough? Poor thing.
Faiith	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Hoap To this all i can say is CCP GIVE ME MORE HIGHSLOTS 8 not enough? Poor thing. \ Actually.... no, im rather dissapointed in eve for that fact, if i still have pg and cpu left over why should i be limited to 8 guns?
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Faiith Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Hoap To this all i can say is CCP GIVE ME MORE HIGHSLOTS 8 not enough? Poor thing. \ Actually.... no, im rather dissapointed in eve for that fact, if i still have pg and cpu left over why should i be limited to 8 guns? train minnie and try fitting a tempest Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 13/11/2005 08:51:19 Easy answer: Balance. Almost everyone is able to fly battleships after a short time, so there has to be some reason to fly smaller ships, since they are not only meant to be flown by nubs. A dev once stated that battleships are not meant as a '1-man-pwn-mobile.' edit => every ship has it's role. 'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.'
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:50:00 - [20] I've always wondered why dual 150mm railguns ahve the sensor resolution of a 250mm railgun. I know it's based on size class but shoudln't it be able to hit frigates just as well as a 150mm? And perhaps we could get a quad 150mm for battleships? Something that would absolutely ting off a cruiser or battleship but wreck a frigate. The problem in Eve is that small ships can hit the big ones fine for good damage and the big ships can't touch the small ones or hit them for very low damage. Small guns should not be tearing through battleships :/.
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Nyphur I've always wondered why dual 150mm railguns ahve the sensor resolution of a 250mm railgun. I know it's based on size class but shoudln't it be able to hit frigates just as well as a 150mm? And perhaps we could get a quad 150mm for battleships? Something that would absolutely ting off a cruiser or battleship but wreck a frigate. The problem in Eve is that small ships can hit the big ones fine for good damage and the big ships can't touch the small ones or hit them for very low damage. Small guns should not be tearing through battleships :/. TY TY TY, i was starting to think no one was on my side
Noriath	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:51:00 - [22] Edited by: Noriath on 13/11/2005 08:55:30 Edited by: Noriath on 13/11/2005 08:54:34 While it may seem stupid that battleships can't effectively fight against smaller ships, since everyone and their moms dog can afford a battleship in eve there simply wouldn't be any reason to fly smaller ships if they wouldn't have any kind of advantage. There are just too many battleships in eve to allow them to be as effective as they should be. It's the quintessential balance issue, make one thing very powerful and everyone will make the effort to have it, if your restrict it to a limited number of people like tech 2 BPO people will be angry because their efforts aren't rewarded, if you make it possible for everyone to have it you have to introduce disadvantages so the other things still have a reason to exist... And yea, it would be nice if large ships had an armor characteristic that would work against small guns like low sig rad does against large ones. Then introduce anti-battleship weapons to frigates that don't work on other frigates, like very slow shooting torpedo launchers, or something like that... That way a frig could still kill a battleship, but it would have to make the same choice: Do I want to kill small or big ships?
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.11.13 08:55:00 - [23] (1) Isn't EVE a multiplayer game? Why would any one ship be capable of dealing with everything? (2) Nobody here heard of a target painter? (3) Refer to (1). Celt Corp - members of ISS
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:04:00 - [24] And if it's 1 vs. 10, what do you expect ? No '1-man-pwn-mobile' => a bs is not meant to fly around alone and kill groups of other players. BS are supposed to be used in mixed fleets, the usage for solo gameplay is something that players have invented e.g. for missions and hunting. I think you won't find a single post where a dev states that battleships are also meant for solo usage in pvp. 'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.'
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:10:00 - [25] TY all, a friend bet me $10 i couldnt get 250 people to read a post in under an hour, it was close but i got my money and now im goin to get drunk Hoap
Shittake	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:12:00 - [26] This sounds like the rantings of someone who just lost a ship is is mad about it. #1. Missiles are BETTER than before, no question, either train up the skills and eqiup your ship appropriately or stop your whining, this is to all of you who whine about missiles. #2. Learn from the mistake you made losing your battelship to a frigate, think about why you lost, then make changes to your setup(s). #3. Just becasue you lost a battelship to a frig does not mean that the game is gonna die because, to quote you, "Eve is sealing its own fate by the upward class warfea . . blah blah blah". Again, look at your mistake and stop blaming the game. Adapt or die.
Hoap	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:14:00 - [27] Originally by: ****take This sounds like the rantings of someone who just lost a ship is is mad about it. #1. Missiles are BETTER than before, no question, either train up the skills and eqiup your ship appropriately or stop your whining, this is to all of you who whine about missiles. #2. Learn from the mistake you made losing your battelship to a frigate, think about why you lost, then make changes to your setup(s). #3. Just becasue you lost a battelship to a frig does not mean that the game is gonna die because, to quote you, "Eve is sealing its own fate by the upward class warfea . . blah blah blah". Again, look at your mistake and stop blaming the game. Adapt or die. auctually i havent lost a BS to a frig, i think its just annoying that i cant 1 shot it and make it go away
F'nog	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:17:00 - [28] There was a time when BSes were unstoppable unless other BSes were used against them. This was pretty boring and I'm glad things have changed, because unless you had a BS you couldn't really PvP. It's much better now that there's variety. And since I too am a dog person, you will NEVER see a capital ship, either a BS (not that anyone uses them anymore, hmmm wonder why) or a carrier alone in the sea. They are ALWAYS surrounded by a large fleet of support/defense craft like frigates, cruisers and subs, because if they were left alone they would be super easy to sink. One tiny sub, equal to about a frig, could do it with a couple of torps or cruise missiles. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
Mangold	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 13/11/2005 08:37:09 Something called Nos and drones. Try useing it if you want to try solo Battleships. Also battleships can hit cruisers if you are at range. So a fleet of cruisers supported by a battleship will beat a slightly larger fleet of cruisers, almost every time. In RL a fleet where the capital units outnumber the CLs and DDs is a fleet that is considered incomplete. The same applies in EVE. what he said.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2005.11.13 09:20:00 - [30] nobody likes kittens? Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!

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