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Christopher Multsanti
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:33:00 -
[1]
Ok here is my attempt at a serious post on the ships and mods forum.
I don't like WCS's I have hardly ever used them and I lose alot more ships than I should because of it. The reason I dont use them is because I know if I set my ship up properly it can do some serious damage and kill ships bigger than itself (I am thinking thorax in this example).
To me fitting warpcore stabs is a half hearted attempt at PVP, its like saying yeah i'll try and kill this guy but if things go bad I can always warp out.
This is not the way it should be.
Possible options:
1) remove them from the game completely
2) increase ftting req's alot so they completely gimp your set up, this would mean 3 different sizes of wcs's for frigs, cruisers and bs.
PVP'ing and WCS's should not go together, they should only be allowed for those people that dont want to fight and just dont want to get ganked while travelling somewhere.
Thorax FTW!
Hi, I am your friendly neighbourhood spy! |
Gator McKlusky
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:36:00 -
[2]
IMHO they are a pefectly legitimate form of defence. Maybe they should have to be an activated module and therefore use cap, but that's all I'd do to them.
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Gold Fish
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:42:00 -
[3]
Keep them in, the fitting req's are fine too.
The thing that's missing is some sort of combat related penalty similar to the mwd cap penalty or the sensor penalty from cloaks. What you don't want to do is nerf them for people that just want to use them to travel, but they do need to be made less desirable for people that want to fight with them. Losing a single low slot per stab is not really enough of a penalty imho.
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Ajaya
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:44:00 -
[4]
Agreed Christopher.
I've often times found myself fighting someone who should have the advantage in the fight, but they are losing badly... when I start to wonder why, they warp off with a couple of points on them. Then I know why. I remember a war we were in with one corp that filled every low slot on their HACS with these. After we figured this out, we simply packed more and more scram. I hope they were embarrased to lose HAC's to tech 1 cruisers simply because they came fit to run instead of fight. I will admit there are some fun setups where WCS are essential (and they do serve a purpose in travelling through dangerous areas), but more often than not, I find that the loser of even fights often end up being those that have WCS fit. I'll take a trusty tank or high dmg thank you very much :)
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Bazman on 13/11/2005 11:45:14
I'm the same way, i hate the thought of using stabs since it screws with the slots you could use to make your combat fit even more effective, but lately i've been thinking that blasterboats like a Blasterthron/dominix (and maybe a deimos if your crazy enough) really need to use a couple of stabs in order to actually be able to survive an encounter that swings in an unfavourable direction. You stand to lose too much with such a little advantage in firepower with a ship that relies on getting within range of absolutely every weapon in game (NOS, Smartbombs, Drones etc)
/me is depressed about blasterboats
Edit: Same could be said about autocannon ships, but their range isn't quite so gimped, and Matari ships are fast, so they don't have the same crappy qualities of blasterboats, beside reduced firepower
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Minnow maught
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:23:00 -
[6]
Agreed, WCS are no fun but on industrial ships, frighters etc, they are very handy.
How about have something like a 100+cpu fitting requirement but industrial ships get a cpu bonus that brings them back to current cpu useage levels ?
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:08:00 -
[7]
I just wish that they were real "fight or flight"
They need to gimp setups more if you choose to shoot. I dont care if its a locking time penalty, reduction in damage or locking dist or whatever.
On the bright side, I toasted a geddon with 4 wcs two days ago
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Ak'athra J'ador
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:14:00 -
[8]
all wcs do is encourange ganking hehe
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Krulla on 13/11/2005 13:16:14
Edited by: Krulla on 13/11/2005 13:15:40
There is a horse there.
It is dead.
It has been long dead, in fact.
A man walks into view, striding intendly to the dead horse.
He is holding a baseball bat.
He looks down at the mangled, broken, and rotten cadaver.
He raises the bat above his head, holding it tightly with both hands.
He screams: "OMGWTFBBQ NERF WCS PLZZZ¿!!!211211"
He beats the dead horse.
Respect the Domi. Or else. |
Rexthor Hammerfists2
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:33:00 -
[10]
The problem of the WCS is, that:
Warp Core Stab > Scramblers
because:
- warp cores are inactive, scramblers do ahve to activate on a locked target.
- warp cores fit in lowslots, where scramblers fit in meds which are general less in the game.
- warp cores dont have a range, like scramblers do.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:40:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists2
The problem of the WCS is, that:
Warp Core Stab > Scramblers
because:
- warp cores are inactive, scramblers do ahve to activate on a locked target.
- warp cores fit in lowslots, where scramblers fit in meds which are general less in the game.
- warp cores dont have a range, like scramblers do.
Amen to that. WCS to highslots ftw !!
I might have ATUKO in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.11.13 15:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dreez
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists2
The problem of the WCS is, that:
Warp Core Stab > Scramblers
because:
- warp cores are inactive, scramblers do ahve to activate on a locked target.
- warp cores fit in lowslots, where scramblers fit in meds which are general less in the game.
- warp cores dont have a range, like scramblers do.
Amen to that. WCS to highslots ftw !!
Or just activation cost ;D
-= Soros =-
C6
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Kara Kaprica
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Posted - 2005.11.13 15:11:00 -
[13]
average slots required to put a str 2 scramble on someone= 1
average slots to stop that scramble= 2
Please, the dead horse cant take it anymore, its verging on necrobeastiality.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.11.13 15:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kara Kaprica
average slots required to put a str 2 scramble on someone= 1
average slots to stop that scramble= 2
Please, the dead horse cant take it anymore, its verging on necrobeastiality.
Slots to get two points = 2.
1 scram and one mwd. Not gonna get close otherwise. Huge chance you wont anyway.
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HairyGary
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Posted - 2005.11.13 16:13:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Slots to get two points = 2.
1 scram and one mwd. Not gonna get close otherwise. Huge chance you wont anyway.
Unless you're prepared to show that a MWD's sole functionality rests in getting you close enough to use a warp scrambler, your argument is mind numbingly disingenuous.
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.11.13 16:16:00 -
[16]
-10% ROF for guns and launchers = balance.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Farjung
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Posted - 2005.11.13 16:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bazman
Edited by: Bazman on 13/11/2005 11:45:14
I'm the same way, i hate the thought of using stabs since it screws with the slots you could use to make your combat fit even more effective, but lately i've been thinking that blasterboats like a Blasterthron/dominix (and maybe a deimos if your crazy enough) really need to use a couple of stabs in order to actually be able to survive an encounter that swings in an unfavourable direction. You stand to lose too much with such a little advantage in firepower with a ship that relies on getting within range of absolutely every weapon in game (NOS, Smartbombs, Drones etc)
/me is depressed about blasterboats
Edit: Same could be said about autocannon ships, but their range isn't quite so gimped, and Matari ships are fast, so they don't have the same crappy qualities of blasterboats, beside reduced firepower
And of course the irony is that blasterboats are the fittings that need every single one of their low slots the most.
---
Remote sensor dampers, sensor boosters and remote sensor boosters are bugged and currently overpowered. |
Kara Kaprica
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Posted - 2005.11.13 16:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Kara Kaprica
average slots required to put a str 2 scramble on someone= 1
average slots to stop that scramble= 2
Please, the dead horse cant take it anymore, its verging on necrobeastiality.
Slots to get two points = 2.
1 scram and one mwd. Not gonna get close otherwise. Huge chance you wont anyway.
you cannot factor a mwd in. if it only assisted you in scrambling then you could, but as it allows your ship to travel fast whatever you are doing, then the point is moot.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.11.13 17:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kara Kaprica
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Kara Kaprica
average slots required to put a str 2 scramble on someone= 1
average slots to stop that scramble= 2
Please, the dead horse cant take it anymore, its verging on necrobeastiality.
Slots to get two points = 2.
1 scram and one mwd. Not gonna get close otherwise. Huge chance you wont anyway.
you cannot factor a mwd in. if it only assisted you in scrambling then you could, but as it allows your ship to travel fast whatever you are doing, then the point is moot.
I want a 92528359 km warp dis.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.13 17:44:00 -
[20]
Highslot stabs would be laughably exploitable.
Imagine, a geddon with 8 highslot stabs and 8 nanofibers
-
Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.11.13 17:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Highslot stabs would be laughably exploitable.
Imagine, a geddon with 8 highslot stabs and 8 nanofibers
Yes, i mean, it would be reduced to bumping freighters! oh man, the fun that could be had with that, oh wait... :p
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Wee Dave
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Posted - 2005.11.13 18:07:00 -
[22]
Making them highslot would be very unfair to industrials.
One of the better suggestions I heard was a warp penalty for each stab if you activated an aggroing module. So if I have four stabs, for example, and I try to shoot at you, I then can't warp for 120 seconds.
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.11.13 18:27:00 -
[23]
-30% warp speed per module.
2 mods = half the normal warpspeed, 4 mods = 1/4 the normal warpspeed.
Gives a chance for someone in control of the system to actually catch the enemies, and makes WCS-sniper and WCS-damper setups actually counterable.
T2 Destroyers: a proposal
Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.11.13 18:30:00 -
[24]
The WCS problem has been since they were introduced to the game. They knew and know they're overpowered, thing is - 90% of eve want them to be overpowered; 90% of eve doesn't want to have to take chances.
First fix the players, then you can fix the modules.
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2005.11.13 18:32:00 -
[25]
Then Ill bill you everytime I lose 100k zyd.
loser.
Friends Forever |
RedWyvern
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Posted - 2005.11.13 19:03:00 -
[26]
I think the social stigma surrounding the use of WCS, combined with the fact that they waste slots that can be put to better use is penalty enough. :)
Loyalty, Integrity, Honour. |
Rendai
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Posted - 2005.11.13 19:06:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Rendai on 13/11/2005 19:07:24
I'm seeing the social stigma slowly vanish, personally - combat builds dependant on WCS work, and what works gains respect.
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hattifnatt
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Posted - 2005.11.13 22:39:00 -
[28]
Warp stabs is killing the game. 
___
/o.0\
\___/ <-- This is Jigglypuff!! |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.13 23:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vishnej
-30% warp speed per module.
2 mods = half the normal warpspeed, 4 mods = 1/4 the normal warpspeed.
Gives a chance for someone in control of the system to actually catch the enemies, and makes WCS-sniper and WCS-damper setups actually counterable.
Howso? Do remember that the sniper will propably be going to a mid-warp safe or deep safe, and so warp speed isn't directly relevant.
Anyway, my specific proposal is here
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.13 23:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Highslot stabs would be laughably exploitable.
Imagine, a geddon with 8 highslot stabs and 8 nanofibers
Meh i don't mind as long as he can't gear up for combat. People who use stabs to travel are not the problem.
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