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Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.13 23:32:00 - [31] Other idea is each scrambling attempt, successful or not, took a chunk off your cap if you had WCS. If you had multiple WCS, the effect would stack. So you might be able to get away, once, but your cap would definately be shot after it. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Cdr Foxbat	Posted - 2005.11.14 01:21:00 - [32] As I always repeat - have WCS act similarly to sensor dampers - every module increases decreases your scan range and resolution by say 50% - which would kill most combat setups. Either fight or run - dont sit on the fence........
Serret	Posted - 2005.11.14 01:45:00 - [33] Make them active high slot modules. Industrials can still fit 2. If you need more strength than that, you can always get an elite indy. Before someone complains too heavily about this, ask yourself this: Why should cargo ships be invulnerable for crashing military blockades anyway? And P.S.: Good luck sniping with that 8 hislot-wcs, 8 nanos geddon. -- <Deathwing> just say Amarr pwn cause DW is Amarr
faceone	Posted - 2005.11.14 02:27:00 - [34] Buhu for the people that have a hardtime catching ppl with WCS. Get a faster ship with stronger scram strength mmmk Wait a minute why dont we just remove warp drives from the ships altogether then WCS become obsoleted wow im such the genious coz CCP cares what I think because im part of a minority of whiners. /troll On a serious note, they cant go anywhere when their dead, perhaps you need to dramatically increase your DPS?
TheKiller8	Posted - 2005.11.14 02:37:00 - [35] But.. without WCS, all my griefing near-bannable ship setups like this one would be impossible!
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.11.14 03:05:00 - [36] I, personally, preffered randomized warp scramble probability. If an 8xWarp Stab ship had a 5% chance of being caught in a 30s warp scramble, travelers would think twice about running scrambler blockades. If a stabless ship had a 5% chance of not being scrambled by a 30s scrambler, people would be a less hesitant about charging an enemy frigate force. I would think a sort of Fermi-Durac probability function would do nicely
Redblade	Posted - 2005.11.14 08:11:00 - [37] Option 3: Give wcs a stacking penalty of +10% inertia.
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 08:31:00 - [38] WCS are fine, I often fly with 3+ on my raven... reason ?, 1. For gate camping they effect my shield tank by only 30secs or so 2. They let me stay longer at a fight because I know once in hull I can warp 3. I stay longer in a fight meaning I kill more 4. When you are outlaw status you often get blobbed by a gang of HACs and running is something that works for me in these situations. 5. Knowing I can leave a fight means I will have a go at anyone, even if odds stacked against me and flying a 300m isk raven. 6. Often in PVP you will meet in a 1 vs 1 where enemy setup will beat you every time, whats the point in staying to fight ? People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Could everyone stop whinning about everything that they don't like. Just because YOU don't like it, don't assume everyone doesn't.... adapt, learn the game mechanics or fit a better scrambler. /rant off
VossKarr	Posted - 2005.11.14 09:04:00 - [39] Originally by: tiller WCS are fine, I often fly with 3+ on my raven... reason ?, 1. For gate camping they effect my shield tank by only 30secs or so 2. They let me stay longer at a fight because I know once in hull I can warp 3. I stay longer in a fight meaning I kill more 4. When you are outlaw status you often get blobbed by a gang of HACs and running is something that works for me in these situations. 5. Knowing I can leave a fight means I will have a go at anyone, even if odds stacked against me and flying a 300m isk raven. 6. Often in PVP you will meet in a 1 vs 1 where enemy setup will beat you every time, whats the point in staying to fight ? People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Could everyone stop whinning about everything that they don't like. Just because YOU don't like it, don't assume everyone doesn't.... adapt, learn the game mechanics or fit a better scrambler. /rant off Heh, the funny thing is, tiller, those points you mention about their use in combat are precisely the reason why a lot of people want to see them nerfed. They basically allow you to d*ck around and be irresponsible in your actions and about your ship in combat, and getting away with it.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.11.14 09:13:00 - [40] All ships have an arbitrary base core strength. Say... 1. Warp Core Stabilizers take a low slot and about... maybe 10 CPU. Chance of scrambling is: (Target Core Strength) / (Scrambling amount) Net effect: nerfed WCS, retained scrambler strength (no WCS = no chance of escaping a scrambler. Less core strength than scrambling strength = 100% successful scrambling) Or we could have the slightly more complex system proposed earlier where you always had a chance of escaping or always stood a chance of getting scrambled. The avarage was that you'd more often get scrambled wearing WCS than you'd escape while not wearing stabs (and being scrambled by only a disruptor). I wish there were more fun skills with Memory as primary. Poor Intaki combat people with low perception...
Rexthor Hammerfists2	Posted - 2005.11.14 09:31:00 - [41] Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists2 on 14/11/2005 09:31:50 Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists2 on 14/11/2005 09:31:18 the ultimative balance would be to make warp cores active, means u have to lock a ship and activate an wcs on it. god id love it, no lame 3 wcs ***** ravens out there who wouldnt risk to stick around for a real fight without a open backdoor
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 09:31:00 - [42] Edited by: tiller on 14/11/2005 09:31:07 Originally by: VossKarr Originally by: tiller WCS are fine, I often fly with 3+ on my raven... reason ?, 1. For gate camping they effect my shield tank by only 30secs or so 2. They let me stay longer at a fight because I know once in hull I can warp 3. I stay longer in a fight meaning I kill more 4. When you are outlaw status you often get blobbed by a gang of HACs and running is something that works for me in these situations. 5. Knowing I can leave a fight means I will have a go at anyone, even if odds stacked against me and flying a 300m isk raven. 6. Often in PVP you will meet in a 1 vs 1 where enemy setup will beat you every time, whats the point in staying to fight ? People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Could everyone stop whinning about everything that they don't like. Just because YOU don't like it, don't assume everyone doesn't.... adapt, learn the game mechanics or fit a better scrambler. /rant off Heh, the funny thing is, tiller, those points you mention about their use in combat are precisely the reason why a lot of people want to see them nerfed. They basically allow you to d*ck around and be irresponsible in your actions and about your ship in combat, and getting away with it. Fair point ... but should you be responsible for your actions in a game. ahh well, thats another thread
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 10:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists2 Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists2 on 14/11/2005 09:31:50 Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists2 on 14/11/2005 09:31:18 the ultimative balance would be to make warp cores active, means u have to lock a ship and activate an wcs on it. god id love it, no lame 3 wcs ***** ravens out there who wouldnt risk to stick around for a real fight without a open backdoor No the ult bal is to have everyone in the same ship with the same fitting. Pass me a tissue im gonna cry
Mangus Thermopyle	Posted - 2005.11.14 10:10:00 - [44] I agree that something should be done. Putting WCS in high slot seems to be te best solution. Or maybe have a stacking penalty, so that 2 WCSs gives 1.5 in streangth, 3 gives 2 in streangth, 4 gives 2.5 and so on (the formula would be (2 * WCSs + 1) / 2)
Spartan 1185	Posted - 2005.11.14 16:03:00 - [45] I'll say this, to me, if your not in a hauler, and your fitting stab's ur a P*****Y, and you need to play another game, i got on raids all the time in enemy space, and i'll fit a civilian afterburner before i fit stabs, end of story.
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 17:19:00 - [46] Edited by: tiller on 14/11/2005 17:22:57 Originally by: Spartan 1185 I'll say this, to me, if your not in a hauler, and your fitting stab's ur a P*****Y, and you need to play another game, i got on raids all the time in enemy space, and i'll fit a civilian afterburner before i fit stabs, end of story. , I lose 1 or 2 ships a wk... without stabs that would be double at least. Without them I would not be able to afford to PVP in my chosen style (have a go at anyone, anywhere style). Anyway, this is a game, play it how you like.... if you really want to fit a blah blah whatever, then great.. it's in the game so it's a viable fitting. Live with it ps: why doesn't anyone post with mains ?
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2005.11.14 17:26:00 - [47] CCP wants to move people out of high sec space. Making WCS's less effective hampers this. Your changes are falling on deaf ears. Go dig a hole. Friends Forever
pardux	Posted - 2005.11.14 17:58:00 - [48] -15% powergrid(or more) and 50-60 cpu use on wcs's = fixed.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.11.14 18:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Vishnej -30% warp speed per module. 2 mods = half the normal warpspeed, 4 mods = 1/4 the normal warpspeed. Gives a chance for someone in control of the system to actually catch the enemies, and makes WCS-sniper and WCS-damper setups actually counterable. Howso? Do remember that the sniper will propably be going to a mid-warp safe or deep safe, and so warp speed isn't directly relevant. Anyway, my specific proposal is here I'm not of the opinion that we need a massive nerf, a 'la "50 CPU per WCS" or "Highslot only." We just need a slight equalizer against WCS-dependant combat builds which currently (as the pirate above admits) make it too easy to pop things and get away without fighting.. This would make hostiles who fancy hit-and-run tactics require some major time to traverse hostile territory - nerfing hit-and-run tactics on the macro scale. Burn Eden fleet 5 jumps out? Now you'd have 10 minutes to put up an effective gate gank - including bubbles - instead of 3. ---------------------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
Crellion	Posted - 2005.11.14 18:14:00 - [50] Edited by: Crellion on 14/11/2005 18:14:37 WCS really stop you from fielding your best set up which is why they are not used in -v-. I used thm when pirating solo b4 -v- howeve and cant argue with their effectiveness in 9/10 situations. The problem is that it is really cheap using them in pvp. Even respected forces like MC (an of cource 2x in every NBSI vagabond gooh gooh @ OP) use them gallore to try and steal kills when faced with superior force. Is that really a problem? I dont know. But if it is perceived by the majority of pvp-ing eve to be a problemthen the solution is simple (although taxing the server a bit perhaps): For every WCS in a gang all ships in that gang lose 1xwcs number / amount of ships in gang = scram strength. So if your 10 BSs have 30 wcs all 20 ships in your gang lose 30/20 = 1.5 scram strength. That would stop people using them in pvp mighty quick :D On the other hand if thats what they like doing, let them do it. As a friend said above, you have to fix the people b4 you fix the mods in this case. Where's the excitment if you know you can warp out ??? I dont even use the Thorax anymore cause its too strong and costs too littl to replace. For me lack of balance is a bigger pain for the favoured party but then its not perhaps so self -evident for some. best of luck to all :)
Serret	Posted - 2005.11.14 18:45:00 - [51] Originally by: tiller People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Not only are you a nub, but you can't count, either. -- <Deathwing> just say Amarr pwn cause DW is Amarr
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.14 18:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Serret Originally by: tiller People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Not only are you a nub, but you can't count, either. Agreed. My last 3 bs kills have had a total of 7 wcs drop from them.
madaluap	Posted - 2005.11.14 18:54:00 - [53] just make warpcorestabs reduce shield and armor systems by 10% each stab fitted this is gonna be fun
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 19:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Serret Originally by: tiller People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it 2. They are so rich that they dont care about going boom 3. They fly in a blob so dont need them 4. They fly a ship that has major design problems and can't use them without gimping it. Not only are you a nub, but you can't count, either. Agreed. My last 3 bs kills have had a total of 7 wcs drop from them. omg guys , you all gonna bust into tears in a second ?... If a module is in game, then it's fine to fit it, ADAPT! ..don't cry about it on the forums. Like ..look at me I'm uber I dont use stabs... who cares ? Looking back at some other posts then maybe there is a case for some kind of stacking penalty, but only to stop entire low slot fitments. 1 or 2 should not be nerfed. btw, I used to shout nub at guys when I was 13 as well
Fenris'ar	Posted - 2005.11.14 19:11:00 - [55] what about change wcs(lowslot per hitslot).It Would be fun if people use wcs instead of guns ....or so
tiller	Posted - 2005.11.14 19:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Fenris'ar what about change wcs(lowslot per hitslot).It Would be fun if people use wcs instead of guns ....or so tbh, I think that is probably the best idea... not that I want it to happen
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.11.14 20:31:00 - [57] Edited by: Arleonenis on 14/11/2005 20:31:49 oh another topic with pirates screaming for easier prays? consider this: you screw game to much to other players and you could camp every gate in eve as only you will remain... only idea about wcs i will support is to made them high slot and lower they fitting requirements, they are meant for travel, no one sane want to enter through gate to meet 5-7 pirates gank and cant do a s**t to survive
Serret	Posted - 2005.11.14 20:55:00 - [58] Edited by: Serret on 14/11/2005 20:55:38 Originally by: tiller btw, I used to shout nub at guys when I was 13 as well Let me remind you what you posted originally: Quote: People who usually write these blah blah I hate WCS threads fall into only three possible cats.. 1. They dont PVP or at least don't understand it (3 other cats snipped...) You were saying? -- <Deathwing> just say Amarr pwn cause DW is Amarr
Kara Kaprica	Posted - 2005.11.14 22:58:00 - [59] There is nothing wrong with this module. People who see them as the antichrist of EVE make me giggle. It gives you the ability to POSSIBLY get away from combat, for the price of REDUCED effectiveness in such combat. In combat, there is nothing you can fit in a low slot that has a lesser combat potential than a WCS, except that the stab MAY allow you to leave the combat. Removing and/or nerfing WCS would have a massive effect on Industry in this game as alot of people would simply avoid certain areas because they woukd no longer feel remotely safe traveing through them.
Zane Broohn	Posted - 2005.11.15 00:00:00 - [60] One vote for WCS fine as they are. ZB

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