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Oneiros vs. The World

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DHB WildCat Caldari Provisions Caldari State 18	Posted - 2011.10.25 23:15:00 - [31] - Quote If you put RR on your Onieros.... you are doing something terribly wrong!
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 59	Posted - 2011.10.25 23:21:00 - [32] - Quote Aamrr wrote: So wait. The Oneiros gets almost 20% more CPU more than the Guardian, but the Guardian gets only 2.4% more powergrid? When the Guardian has to fit 6 highslot modules, and the Oneiros only has to fit four? Does that seem screwed up to anyone else? No, 20% on top of 850W of the Oneiros is not like 20% on top of the 1075W the Guardian has. The Oneiros will still be at 1020W base and Guardian 1100W base after the changes if those numbers are going live and without skills. I'd like the 1100W on the Oneiros too.
Aamrr HnL Enterprise 110	Posted - 2011.10.25 23:29:00 - [33] - Quote I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage. Oneiros: 370 tf Guardian: 310 tf Oneiros: 1050 MW Guardian: 1075 MW Guardian: +2 highs Oneiros: +2 mids Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers...
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 59	Posted - 2011.10.25 23:34:00 - [34] - Quote Aamrr wrote: I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage. Oneiros: 370 tf Guardian: 310 tf Oneiros: 1050 MW Guardian: 1075 MW Guardian: +2 highs Oneiros: +2 mids Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers... I don't know what to tell you but to me seems the Oneiros is finally getting stuff to fit some decent tank and maybe drop cap rechargers for tracking links, maybe become a viable option versus guardians for every situation.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2011.10.26 02:01:00 - [35] - Quote Aamrr wrote: I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage. Oneiros: 370 tf Guardian: 310 tf Oneiros: 1050 MW Guardian: 1075 MW Guardian: +2 highs Oneiros: +2 mids Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers... You think 2 cap rechargers give the same cap as 2 cap chains? Onerios need much more than that to get the necessary cap, which means fewer free slots.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 47	Posted - 2011.10.26 02:40:00 - [36] - Quote Aamrr wrote: Does that seem screwed up to anyone else? Somewhat, but I'd prefer they balanced the ships relative to each other in use/role than their stats. i.e. the Oneiros could be rocking 150% more pg, cpu, base armor, etc. and I wouldn't care as long as the end result left both of them competitive armor logis.
steave435 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 27	Posted - 2011.10.26 10:11:00 - [37] - Quote Aamrr wrote: I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage. Oneiros: 370 tf Guardian: 310 tf Oneiros: 1050 MW Guardian: 1075 MW Guardian: +2 highs Oneiros: +2 mids Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers... That's fair. The Guardian will need to use fitting mods in the rig/low slots to enable the cap chain, the Oneiros will need to use those same slots for RR cap use reduction/extra cap recharge.
Aamrr HnL Enterprise 111	Posted - 2011.10.26 12:57:00 - [38] - Quote And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart? A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 59	Posted - 2011.10.26 13:51:00 - [39] - Quote Aamrr wrote: And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart? A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too. Indeed after a few tests and has it stands Oneiros has some advantage in cpu but lets not forget the changes about mid/low slots meaning some (about 2) cap rechargers ae going to be changed in remote tracking links or ECCM and those are very cpu consuming, then the extra low slot can be used for CPR? In short, changes 2 meds for fittings (cap recharge) for 1med/1low, keeps 2meds RR and 4 highs. Let's see what these changes really mean by testing on SISI and then of course give enough feedback so if the oneiros has more cpu than it can use give it back to guardian. For the reccord I never fit the oneiros or guardian with t2 large reps/remote but meta 4 versions, less cpu used. Do you really have CPU trouble fitting 4 Large Solace and 2 large Regard? -serious question since I always fit those logistics assuming lvl5 skills (witch every one seems to agree is not an option)
steave435 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 27	Posted - 2011.10.26 13:52:00 - [40] - Quote Aamrr wrote: And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart? A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too. The bonus to tracking links means it needs the CPU to fit them if you want to go that route. They'll come at the cost of less RR or lower tank though due to slot limitations.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2011.10.26 13:55:00 - [41] - Quote Don't forget the Onerios is still missing the Amar 80% armor exp resist for natural omnitank. Between extra cap mods taking slots and hardners to kill exp hole, it is still definitely weaker. The only advantage is still not dependent on cap chain. I don't see people swapping from Guardian to Onerios in droves, as the guard is still better.
steave435 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 27	Posted - 2011.10.26 14:35:00 - [42] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Don't forget the Onerios is still missing the Amar 80% armor exp resist for natural omnitank. Between extra cap mods taking slots and hardners to kill exp hole, it is still definitely weaker. The only advantage is still not dependent on cap chain. I don't see people swapping from Guardian to Onerios in droves, as the guard is still better. It should be able to fit a DC II, 1600mm plate and 3 hardeners of whatever type it prefers after this. That can be 2x EXP and 1x EM, covering its resists holes while not significantly stacking against the gang bonus from the Damnation, which now with the T2 links will be equivalent to a C-type eanm. With those hardeners you get higher total EHP then if you had a EANM, and the resists will be very very close to those of the Guardian and following the same profile. With the current T1 gang links (not gonna bother calculating exact values with T2 links, just using EFT) and PLs current Guardian fit (below), an Oneiros would have 85.2/79.5/89.8/84.7 compared to the Guardians 84.5/79.8/88.4/87.6. That's pretty well balanced, but you completely forgot to check the other stats, such as the 20% higher base armour on the Guardian. After fitting a 1600mm plate that's reduced to about 6%, but with the average resist of the Guardian still being slightly higher, that's still important. [Guardian, Alliance] Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II 10MN Afterburner II Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Medium 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I The Oneiros with the new stats and the fit below (add in a DC II in its new low slot) will have slightly lower tank and scan res and won't be able to cap transfer, while the Guardian has slightly lower sensor strength so it's more vulnerable to ECM due to that and the cap chain breaking down if they get jammed. That sounds balanced to me.

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