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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.11.16 19:38:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: DukDodgerz
AS far as the game reflecting RL, it certainly does do this. Thieves and scammers are the same way in RL as they are in game, or wish they could but fear that there is a real risk of jail and being beaten to a pulp by the victim(s) so they just scheme and plot for that big 'prize' that someone else earned.
Absolutely true. I play Eve Online from my jail cell at Ravenhurst Prison where I am serving a life sentence for six counts of attempted murder. They gave me this computer because it's the only thing that keeps me from starting riots in my cell block.
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Demarcus
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:08:00 -
[32]
Quote:
I've accidentally bought a shuttle for seven million instead of seven thousand credits. When you're in a rush, do you always count the zeroes? It was a hell of a blow to my skinny wallet, and that simpler scammer must have been laughing.
That isn't a scam that is just a dumb consumer.
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You are all worthless, and weak.
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Aramova
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:31:00 -
[33]
Amazing article. I must spam WoW fourms with this.
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Guillaume Yu
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Posted - 2005.11.16 21:39:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Guillaume Yu on 16/11/2005 21:40:56
This has to be the greatest form post I have ever read here! The true insight into the mind of some of the players that populate this world in EVE. I am a new player < 1 million sp and I have no skills, yet I wanted that brand new Battle Cruiser and I worked like a dog to get it. The first time I took it into 0.4 space some guy in a Scorp PKed me and all that work getting the isk, studing skills, finding the right mods to make it run was gone in two minutes. Was I mad sure, did I think I was griefed, not so much. About ten minutes later after I setteled down a bit I got to thinking, man that was the most exciting two minutes I have ever had in a game, bar none.
The point I was trying to make is it was a business deal to him at my expence. I learned something and I grew a little in this universe. It was an expensive lesson but all the hard ones are.
I joined EVE because I wanted to do PVP and I got my chance, will I venture out into unsecure space again, sure doing it later today but if I get PKed Im not going to think the other player, who probally only wants to PVP as much as I do, is griefing me. He probally only wants to have some fun as well.
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Siri Danae
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Posted - 2005.11.16 21:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Man, that's a pretty article.
I'm kinda pleasantly surprised folks still talk about us ;)
You shouldn't be, that stunt is now part of EVE lore.
That's not to say it won't, and shouldn't, be superceded. Someone somewhere may step-up and do something more stunning.
On the other hand, I think the first outpost and the ISS outpost are achievements just as great. While the GHSC raid showed the awesome ability to lie and destroy in-game, these projects showed the vast powers of creation also open to players.
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I generally assume the following:
1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers.
2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears.
3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners. |
Zeraph Dregamon
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Posted - 2005.11.17 04:42:00 -
[36]
*sent a letter to the editor correcting some stuff*
GH-SC
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DonTrump
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Posted - 2005.11.17 06:50:00 -
[37]
Taken from the article :
"What do the developers of CCP do when people agonize on forums and petition their losses in these scams and schemes? Very little. They know that, in essence, this is what it's all about: people interacting. And wherever they do that, however they do that, they end up causing some grief.
Perhaps this is the most exciting aspect of EVE: It is a genuinely cruel game. If you destroy people's resources, either by war, scam or personal carelessness, you are literally wasting their time. You destroy part of what they have chosen to invest: their lives. It's a brutal fact, but then what other game can be said to provide such thrilling risks, and such extremes of gaming possibility?"
That sums up why I play EVE.
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Empyre
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Posted - 2005.11.17 07:13:00 -
[38]
ironically enough that article, linked to me by a friend, is what got me to try this thing out.
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TimeKeepr
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Posted - 2005.11.17 07:27:00 -
[39]
very good article.
its funny though that he went into detail about "the big scam", which is only fiction.
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Uuve Savisaalo
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Posted - 2005.11.17 07:33:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 17/11/2005 07:33:12
Originally by: Siri Danae
On the other hand, I think the first outpost and the ISS outpost are achievements just as great. While the GHSC raid showed the awesome ability to lie and destroy in-game, these projects showed the vast powers of creation also open to players.
This is probably the best summary of the game's virtues I've seen to date.
Well observed, Siri.
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Riffix
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Posted - 2005.11.17 08:29:00 -
[41]
The bottom line is that ANY multiplayer game has the potential for grief and any persistant item economy has the potential for scam. It is a fact you can't get around.
What separates the good games from the bad is not how well they craft rules to minimize grief, but how much control they give the players themselves to fight it on their own.
Eve is special in that it is so wide open that it actually allows players to get revenge and fight back against many forms of grief. In theory, nothing stops you from hunting down and podding an ore theif or someone who scams you on the market.
The ideal that any MMO should work towards is having a game architecture that allows the players to police themselves. For every person who finds it fun to grief/scam there are just as many people who would, indeed, have fun fighting it.
I think Eve is very far in the right direction but does still have some issues to work out. IMHO when a griefer is not safe just sitting in a station logged in while they go eat a sandwich from people they have wronged will be a great day. 
"Lead, follow, or get the #@$@#$ out of the way" |
Arti K
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Posted - 2005.11.17 08:52:00 -
[42]
So like... is the article calling us all criminals?
Also, it made frequent references to the value of the heists in out of game currency, which as far as ccp is concerned, there is no exchange rate for isk to dollars because it's explicitly banned by the EULA. CCP's hands are clean
I also have to admit I'm a bit of a ghsc fanboy, but isn't everyone a little bit?
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.11.17 11:00:00 -
[43]
A good read.
Something I have to critisize, though is the underlying disposition of a 'griefer' as a distinctive grief-motivated personality. I think it is more the artificial limitations and barriers that enforce the illusion of an unrealistic world in other games that fails to bring out these aspects of genuine human nature.
In EVE, trust can be proven true at chances of betrayal. If this freedom is removed, can we still call it trust?
And about risk and loss of time - read carefully: Eve is a game. It is not an instrument of economic gains. It's biggest purpose is to provide us an enjoyable gaming experience. We of course enjoy different aspects of the game. But, EVE is a game with added excitement: risk. If you can't afford to 'lose time', choose another game.
To me, that risk is the only tool of actual achievement, and I embrace it.
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2005.11.17 13:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jomam
Edited by: Jomam on 16/11/2005 19:04:49
Originally by: Summersnow
Eve is all about grief.
There is very very little you can do in this game outside of mission running that does not in some way cause grief to another player weather intentional or not.
Mine - deplete someone else's ore
Trade - deplete some else's trade route
Marketing - cut someone elses profit, overcharge for t2 item, buy someone elses ship.
Complex - clear spawn preventing someone else from doing it
PvP - DUH !
If that is so, then EVERY Mmo is pure greif.
Example 1
In everquest. You go hunting for mobs to kill, yet you find theres a gang of people who have already killed them all.
By your standards GREIF!
Example 2
In World of Warcraft you goto the auction house to buy a great item you noticed is for sell. Someone out bids you at the last minute and wins it.
By your standards GREIF!
By your standards, anything that does not go the way you would like it to go is GREIF.
FFS, By your standards you even play a non MMO game such as starcraft, you go to build a base but find the enemy has built a base in the very spot you wanted... GREIF!!!
Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
Edit: Also I would just like to clarify it to you if you still don't understand, those situations are greif, they are unfortunate. Because if you go by these standards then everything in life can be considered greif. The very monitor you are using to read this could have been bought be someone else. So in your thinking, you are a greifing the persons who are now unable to use the monitor due to your purchasing of it. The air you are breathing could be used by someone else, stop greifing and let the other people have some air ffs!
And your point is what exactly?
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Zeraph Dregamon
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Posted - 2005.11.18 12:30:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jin Entres
A good read.
Something I have to critisize, though is the underlying disposition of a 'griefer' as a distinctive grief-motivated personality. I think it is more the artificial limitations and barriers that enforce the illusion of an unrealistic world in other games that fails to bring out these aspects of genuine human nature.
In EVE, trust can be proven true at chances of betrayal. If this freedom is removed, can we still call it trust?
And about risk and loss of time - read carefully: Eve is a game. It is not an instrument of economic gains. It's biggest purpose is to provide us an enjoyable gaming experience. We of course enjoy different aspects of the game. But, EVE is a game with added excitement: risk. If you can't afford to 'lose time', choose another game.
To me, that risk is the only tool of actual achievement, and I embrace it.
QFT
GH-SC
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Refinerbitch
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Posted - 2005.11.18 21:04:00 -
[46]
Risk vs Reward. Most "games" are short on the risk part, EVE is a rather delightful exception.
It's actually possible to really hurt people, people will take losing their precious ships and mods.. People often fly around with their entire worldly possessions, uninsured in low sec..
But yea great article.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.11.18 22:49:00 -
[47]
If I cause someone "pain" to the extent they call me a "greifer" or "anti-social" what is to say they didn't have it coming?
How does the person throwing out such perjoratives know that the person being pained isn't in fact guilty of some transgression that the paingiver is justified in addressing through the administration of "grief." ????
Have any of you been in an Everquest guild or a WoW guild and genuinely got forked over???? And couldn't do a damn thing about it in those games? I bet you have!
Well, in Eve online, there is no artificial insulation, via game mechanics, provided for those who rightfully deserve to get the backlash\payback for their bad deeds. I think this aspect of Eve is the greatest thing since sliced bread!
Make malcontents, true backstabbers, false friends, and others lacking in virtue pay for their "mistakes." At least Eve gives you the chance to "tax" them in that manner :)
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Atom HeartMother
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Posted - 2005.11.18 23:14:00 -
[48]
Quote:
By your standards Tesco are teh ebil griefers in RL
TESCO are so ebil i hve to shoplift my papers of them 
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2005.11.19 01:56:00 -
[49]
Sexy article.
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Baal SiTekgoru
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Posted - 2005.11.19 13:02:00 -
[50]
Heh this thing got slashdotted.
Black Monkey Corporation - Corporate Liquidators |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.19 13:36:00 -
[51]
The amount of nerfage and things that are now considerd exploits says a lot. Changes over the last 2 years tells me alot about the playing population of eve.
Players couldn't behave, so ccp ground the game down to make it harder for them.
The people that did/do this are still amoung us, there's a 'carebear' caller on virtualy every thread.
Geief by definition, somebody that enjoys seeing the discomfort of others.
Forgeting game mechanics for one momment, i see plenty of people that have that opinion.
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When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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