And it starts. Again I hope those who supported this mockery in the republic are happy. As the cost of added isolation and the label as a rouge nation has done nothing to aid you and has given the Amarr more power over your future than they could ever have dreamed. It is one thing to have alienated your greatest ally and then invade while feeling free to kill federation military in federation space. But it is quite another to do it after we are learning that our Caldari brothers are willing to work with us and not follow the crazed Heth off the cliff.

Who will stand with the Republic after this?

Diana, if the fate that soon awaits your 'glorious executor' isn't proof enough, attitudes like yours will lead nowhere except a self destructive end, surrounded by nothing but the pity and ridicule of your peers.

You have already said you will protect the life of an outlaw against true State citizens, putting any claim of loyalty you make towards the State to the torch.

Just how much deeper are you going to dig your own hole?
Tread carefully, Soon, it will be another Caldari that puts a bullet to you.

I have tried to offer you counsel, tried to help you to see the path you tread.
The rest is up to you.

10 pages of whining about Coleile (again) in 3....2......1.....

Kill one gallentean and Senate will start to whine.
Continue killing until they stop.

Cluster expresses dismay that Federation didn't see this coming.

Yes, how dare we be upset at being backstabbed. How dare we!

We've had this discussion before Diana.

I am NOT Gallentean.
Your wilful blindness is going to be your end.

You will fight traitors and dissidents? You mean like the ones in the station you are defending? The ones declared as traitors by the rightful highest authority in the State?
You keep telling yourself that, Denial of the facts will not change the fact that your actions mark YOU as the traitor and dissident.

This only proves that the Matari are savages, incapable of understanding due process or exercising restraint. I don't even understand how they're even an empire really, they're more at war with themselves then they are with the Amarr.

Its sad.

Yes, how dare we be upset at being backstabbed. How dare we!

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself.

So about that whole "CEP declares Heth a terrorist and enemy of the state" thing...

Speaking about professionalism, I am afraid your aim is not so good, since you clicked on a wrong topic to discuss Heth-haan.

I can't help but think like, that all of this could have been avoided if Quafe had just taken my suggestion to appease the Republic by releasing new flavors...

Maybe they will release new flavors anyway? GÖÑ

Better late than never, right~?

Anyone who enabled [this outcome] to happen and whines about it now is a hypocrite.

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself. Can you say the same about you?.. I guess not, gallentean.

Doubly so when you consider the fate of Anvent Eturrer.

Fourteen life sentences sounds much like a death sentence to me.

Now, maybe it is because I come from a backwater planet in Solitude and do not understand the finer details of Federal law, but I do not understand the notion that the Sebiestor Tribal Court simply executed the verdict given by the Caille District Court. The verdict was 14 life sentences, what they executed was the death sentence. Maybe for some people, but in my understanding, those two a far from the same.

What was the point of the sentence of the Caille District Court if it was meant to never be followed? If the Caille District Court has the power to give the death sentence, they obviously did not believe the crime was strong enough. Alternatively, if they do not have that power, this whole story just shows how to circumvent such a restriction. Let us not forget, for all the bad things he did, Gerne Broteau was a citizen of the Federation.

Yes, living in confinement until old age takes you is 'much like' being shot down in the prime of your life.

Next Captain Hakatain will explain how war is peace and ignorance is strength.

People keep bringing this up all the time to compare with the current events and make a cheap-shot argument that, because the Federation burned a national traitor on stage once, any complaints about ANY OTHER CASE EVER is null and void.

I have pointed it out once before that there are vastly different circumstances surrounding these two cases and vastly different crimes to account for, but people keep making this comparison, and this argument. I fail to see how it is in any way relevant, but before I make a post about this for a third time, perhaps you would care to elaborate on your viewpoints here?

I expect that, if anyone can inform me of this, it should be you, Verin.

Now, maybe it is because I come from a backwater planet in Solitude and do not understand the finer details of Federal law, but I do not understand the notion that the Sebiestor Tribal Court simply executed the verdict given by the Caille District Court. The verdict was 14 life sentences, what they executed was the death sentence. Maybe for some people, but in my understanding, those two a far from the same.

What was the point of the sentence of the Caille District Court if it was meant to never be followed? If the Caille District Court has the power to give the death sentence, they obviously did not believe the crime was strong enough. Alternatively, if they do not have that power, this whole story just shows how to circumvent such a restriction. Let us not forget, for all the bad things he did, Gerne Broteau was a citizen of the Federation.

Added a very important naunce there. I'd rather live till old age takes me instead of getting shot down. I guess that goes for the most of us. But if I'd have to live the rest of my life in confinement, locked away from my loved ones.

It's a personal opinion, but I'd rather take a bullet at that point.

Yes, living until old age takes you is 'much like' being shot down in the prime of your life.

Actually war is quite an option. And yet again another sweeping under the rug of the thousands of federation military who died from a REPUBLIC invasion eh? Just what I expect from Republic apologists.

War was an option the moment those Dreads jumped in. War was even more of an option the moment they opened fire on the Federation. War was then even more of an option when the Federation BEGGED them to stop and return to Republic space.

The Republic has proven that they can't be trusted. If war or ending our efforts to divert the Amarr from the Republic is needed it needs to be known that the Federation will be willing to do so to protect its sovereignty against a rouge nation.

Funny, I did not mention Coelile at all.

The mistakes of that day have been decried from both sides as unrepeatable, yet you are saying that we should lose tens of thousands more lives, or give up the freedom of an entire people for what exactly?

Petty vengeance? That will not undo the mistake that was made.
Moving on will at least allow them to rest and does not play into the hands of the terrorist who started it all.
That said, having looked at your CONCORD profile, you would appear to be in favour of criminal acts.

let me be a little clearer...

you say that the federation should invade the republic, in an act born of a wish for vengeance.
because : the republic invaded the federation, in an act born of a wish for vengeance.

but your wish is 'far' more justifiable than theirs. Hypocrite.

As for the Eturrer comment - I was simply noting the irony inherent in condemning the Republic for lawfully and humanely executing a convicted murderer versus the total absence of any Senatorial objections to an unlawful and breathtakingly cruel death performed at home.

Invading the Republic would not be an act of vengeance. But a measure meant to prove to the cluster that the federation treats its sovereignty very seriously. Seriously enough that the government attempted to show patience by extraditing the criminal in good faith. Now that the Republic spat in the face of that. Additional measures up to and including invasion my be needed to show that invading the Federation and killing federation navy will not be ignored. It is a sad day to note that the Amarr were far more willing to mend things after the failed heir invasion than the far weaker Republic.

Don't get me wrong. I do not wish to see Republic Citizens killed. Yet they may be better off not having a government that simply refuses to respect the sovereignty of its allies.

life as inmate in the Federation in many cases is no worse than in an Amarrian plantation or as a common State worker, or so I have heard.

The Amarr and Caldari invasions were similar as they were pushed by insane people. The Amarr let the federation go into their territory to capture a scumbag as a way to mend things broken by an insane heir. The Caldari came to the table and worked out an agreement for their homeland that benefited both nations after Heth was virtually removed from his ability to stop such.

And for what do we get for trying to mend ties with the Republic? Spitting on our systems and good faith with a sham of a trial.

Atleast with the Caldari our brothers are slowly making attempts to end the hate that has divided us for so long.

Line workers in the State have the same legal status as all other citizens, earn a living wage, have promotion opportunities, are in control of their career path and aren't being watched by armed guards, drones or slaver hounds. It may not be the most luxurious life in the world, but it's nothing like incarceration or enslavement. There's noticeably less razor wire involved.

In any case, I see the blatant disregard by the Sebiestor Tribal Court to the actual sentence given by the Caille District Court as nothing else than 'giving us the finger'. That this Shakor guy then tries to further discredit the Federal jurisdictional system in a smug comment, is a finger more. Just as violating our space sovereignty, I might add.

The point still is; there a plenty of pretty awful ways of living out there in New Eden, or at least, ways of living that others consider awful. Does that mean we should or give us a right to shoot a bullet in their head to end their existence?

Five years separate the events regarding the Caldari, a similar amount of time separates the events regarding the Amarr.
You're railing for an invasion of Matar less than a month after the events you whine about
Perhaps, if nothing has happened in way of reparation in five years you will have a case, but right now, you have just pointed out why you are wrong. Congratulations.

---

Seven Tribes.
One Matari People.

Quafe Sabik - guaranteed to sate your bloodthirst! Now with more hemoglobin!

As for the Eturrer comment - I was simply noting the irony inherent in condemning the Republic for lawfully and humanely executing a convicted murderer versus the total absence of any Senatorial objections to an unlawful and breathtakingly cruel death performed at home.

Collective good trumps individual welfare.

The man killed a chieftain in a Minmatar cultural festival, and lest we forget he killed numerous others as well. Let the Minmatar have their justice. It boggles my mind sometimes why my own kind whine over things like this.

"Justice is the only thing that was served here. To extend this trial for the sake of allowing the accused to offer an ineffective defense would have made it a mockery."

Well said Shakor, the man had his chance.. no need to let the man live any longer for his atrocities.

This. All of my this. Who cares if he was killed? He didn't deserve any mercy.

In recent years the Federation has been 'invaded' three times, None of these events have resulted in a counter-invasion. Not when the Amarr or Caldari attacked us with MUCH larger forces.
So why, in the name of sanity, would we attack the Republic for sending a much smaller fleet under FAR more emotionally charged circumstances?

The man killed a chieftain in a Minmatar cultural festival, and lest we forget he killed numerous others as well. Let the Minmatar have their justice. It boggles my mind sometimes why my own kind whine over things like this.

"Justice is the only thing that was served here. To extend this trial for the sake of allowing the accused to offer an ineffective defense would have made it a mockery."

Well said Shakor, the man had his chance.. no need to let the man live any longer for his atrocities.

What has been done, has been done and we can agree or disagree with the handling of the situation till we're a blue in the face.

What saddens me the most is, the more this conversation continues, the more attention is given to a terrorist and his action than to the unfortunate victims, survivors, and their families.

Both sides, Republic and Federation, have, by all estimates, done a poor job of handling the situation from the start. Instead of crying foul and pointing fingers, let us take a moment to learn from the mistakes made and move forward.

Remember the fallen.

So to "Let them have their justice" We just have to forget about the fact that the Federation was INVADED and thousands of Federation Navy personnel killed. Have their justice to continue to insult Federation legal systems trying and sentencing a man who killed federation citizens.

So the rouge Republic gets to have its justice and screw everyone who died by their hand to get it and screw their allies is that correct?

No. There must be a response to this.

Yes, how dare we be upset at being backstabbed. How dare we!

Ignore Cypher. He's an armchair chickenhawk who neither feels strongly enough about anything to fight for it in a militia nor operate from a corporation not covered under CONCORD special protections. It is only by hiding behind the Sebiestor Tribe corporation's unassailable position that he feels secure enough to issue his poorly reasoned screed-ettes. In effect he is a child running around saying "Pay attention to me! Pay attention to me!" while the adults talk.

Funny that you consider the Federation that has done so much to help the people of the Republic a "Poisonous ally" I doubt that any other group would have taken an invasion and killing of its military as some kind of misunderstanding that could be potentially solved by giving the invaders what they want later on.

The Federation did not invade their allies and kill their military. Please do not compare the response of the Federation which by all estimates have been amazingly patient to that of the savagery of the Republic that now considers their allies sovereignty optional.

This conversation will continue and hopefully the Federation will take action against our so called "Friends" because it must.

Why wouldn't they? The Federation gains so much by keeping to Republic blue to them:

• They benefit from injections of art and culture from our artistically and culturally superiors Tribes.
• They have a more martially proficient ally at their beck and call.
• They gain a major, friendly trade partner and a woefully open market for their trashy music and smutty daytime holodramas which invariably flop in the State and the Empire.
• As long as the slaver is looking at us, he isn't looking at them - which is really the core of it.

.

Holy crap, it's Matar's answer to DK.

I do not have a problem with him being executed. Anyone with sense could see the decision to extradite was a death sentence in the short term. I will shed no tears over Broteau's death, nor would I shed them for any of his ilk. I have far more important things to do that over.

I do, however, find the second trial itself to have been entirely unnecessary. As has been stated multiple times before in this thread and others, anyone who expected another result from such a trial was naive and fooling themselves at best.

That is what the "show" was. Holding a trial when it did not need to be held. The Federation knew Broteau was dead the moment he was transferred to the Republic and taken across the border. The Republic knew this. Everyone else knew this.

So why waste money on a trial where everything is predetermined? Why allow him to breathe the air that he has no business breathing, even for the two days it took to go through the trial and then execute him?

If it would have been so insulting to the Republic to allow him to live long enough to provide an "ineffective defense", surely it is just as insulting to have made him, the victims and everyone else watch a trial that was scripted as a holovision series, rather than just getting it over and done with as quickly as possible?

If nothing else, at least this part of things is over and done with. It would be nice to move on and try and deal with the rest.

We don't have to turn anyone. They already are killing our people.

So to "Let them have their justice" We just have to forget about the fact that the Federation was INVADED and thousands of Federation Navy personnel killed. Have their justice to continue to insult Federation legal systems trying and sentencing a man who killed federation citizens.

So the rouge Republic gets to have its justice and screw everyone who died by their hand to get it and screw their allies is that correct?

No. There must be a response to this.

Yes, exactly that. Let them have their justice. What happened at Colelie was an incredibly unfortunate misunderstanding. We are a culture that isn't of vengeance or revenge. Should we ever become one it'd be a start to yet another sad age beget by very own arrogance. Minmatar are not Caldari and a senseless, vengeful war, would perhaps be the end of both of our beautiful cultures and civilizations.

The Federation Navy personnel at Colelie fought and died against a small sect of Minmatar who were hellbent on achieving justice, we feared and made a decision. That decision was a tragic one. They died with honor believing they were protecting Gallente from an impending invasion, leave it at that. For you to accuse the entire Minmatar of one fleets actions is a massive dishonor to what both sides were trying to do on that fatefilled day.

Remember what happened, honor the Gallente dead and turn the cheek. Minmatar are a good people with a culture much different than ours. We should have enough sense to understand before we are understood.

What has been done, has been done and we can agree or disagree with the handling of the situation till we're a blue in the face.

What saddens me the most is, the more this conversation continues, the more attention is given to a terrorist and his action than to the unfortunate victims, survivors, and their families.

Both sides, Republic and Federation, have, by all estimates, done a poor job of handling the situation from the start. Instead of crying foul and pointing fingers, let us take a moment to learn from the mistakes made and move forward.

Remember the fallen.

Fact of the matter is, the Federation does in fact need the alliance with Minmatar.

What happened at Colelie was an incredibly unfortunate misunderstanding. We are a culture that isn't of vengeance or revenge.

The Federation Navy personnel at Colelie fought and died against a small sect of Minmatar who were hellbent on achieving justice, we feared and made a decision. That decision was a tragic one. They died with honor believing they were protecting Gallente from an impending invasion, leave it at that. For you to accuse the entire Minmatar of one fleets actions is a massive dishonor to what both sides were trying to do on that fatefilled day.

Remember what happened, honor the Gallente dead and turn the cheek. Minmatar are a good people with a culture much different than ours. We should have enough sense to understand before we are understood.

We are a culture that isn't of vengeance or revenge.

Millions of dead Caldari over the last three hundred years might take exception to that. Oh, and you don't even need a good reason - the Gallente started trying to starve the Caldari on Caldari Prime before Nouvelle Rouvenor even occurred.

By the way, just because we are getting Heth out of the way, don't think that we love the Gallente now. You are still our enemies, and, personally, I think the Gallente are worse as friends.

This is perhaps the most ludicrous thing I've read all day. An incredibly unfortunate misunderstanding?

For your own education, I'd recommend you pick up any book on the first Gallente-Caldari war. You will find many cases where the Federation undertook actions specifically for the purpose of vengeance or revenge.

As a culture, the Federation may aim to rise above vengeance and revenge - at least where appropriate. Perhaps your own personal views are that we shouldn't take actions with that purpose. It's naive of you to assume that either of those ideas automatically apply to the Federation as a whole.

That small sect, by the way, goes by the name "The Republic Fleet". No matter how you couch this, you won't be able to change the fact that it was the Navy of the Republic which invaded, nor that it was they who fired first.

The Minmatar are a good people with a culture much different than our own. The Republic, on the other hand, is an entirely different animal. In its current form, led by Shakor, it has shown itself to be a loose cannon of a state.

Honor the Federation dead and turn the cheek? Without even a public admission of wrongdoing on the part of the Republic? Without a Republic apology to the friends and families of those Federation dead, and to the Federation as a whole? Without any attempt on the part of the Republic to show that we could expect that something like this would never happen again?

Captain medes, doing so would not honor them. It would merely mean that they would have died for nothing.

Let the Republic stand alone. It's obviously what they want.

Not only did the Republic not have any Gallente observers at their trial

We let the Sebeistor Tribe observe our trial directly to make sure both parties would agree upon the decision.

Not only did the Republic not have any Gallente observers at their trial, but made a decision that would of made our's impossible to carry out. Once again, The Republic demonstrate a complete disregard for the allies that have done nothing but give and sacrifice for The Republics well being.

We've had more mutual agreements with the Caldari as of late than we have had with our own allies.

Did they ask to have observers?

Millions of dead Caldari over the last three hundred years might take exception to that. Oh, and you don't even need a good reason - the Gallente started trying to starve the Caldari on Caldari Prime before Nouvelle Rouvenor even occurred.

By the way, just because we are getting Heth out of the way, don't think that we love the Gallente now. You are still our enemies, and, personally, I think the Gallente are worse as friends.

The Republic Fleet that acted in a rage was unfortunate, but their passion is a part of who they are and they died trying to enact core ideals they also hold close.

Captain Starfleet...I am curious to see where this goes, so I must ask: let us say that declaring war on the Minmatar is the right course of action for what they did. What is the point of the war then?

Lovely. And then you get offended when I call all republicans warmongering bloodthirsty Shakor's sycophants.
What are we supposed to do, brush it aside and go 'Oh, it's alright. They are republicans, genocide is who they are.' ?
I'd suggest you quit your apologetic tone before you make more of a fool out of yourself.

Even tho there's no stations in Colelie, not sure if it's inhabited.

As I said earlier, it's only a matter of time before it got bumped up to "The Colelie Genocide."

Even tho there's no stations in Colelie, not sure if it's inhabited.

I believe the point of the war would be protecting the citizens of the Federation from random outbursts of violence from the Shakorite regime.
It's quite simple, really.

While the position of the Republic in the Battle may be questionable, it's certainly less questionable than indiscriminately and opportunistically firing on both sides.

While the position of the Republic in the Battle may be questionable, it's certainly less questionable than indiscriminately and opportunistically firing on both sides.

It's certainly interesting the position you are taking given your actions at the Battle of Colelie. 2 Naglfars and a Moros to your Credit, I believe.

While the position of the Republic in the Battle may be questionable, it's certainly less questionable than indiscriminately and opportunistically firing on both sides.

Typical Republic apologists. Attempting yet again to divert attention away from the real issues. The fact that the Republic considers its allies sovereignty to be optional and the continued insults towards our laws and justice system.

Yes, well, I've just been informed by credible, highly-placed sources that I'm rubber and you are glue.

Lovely. And then you get offended when I call all republicans warmongering bloodthirsty Shakor's sycophants.
What are we supposed to do, brush it aside and go 'Oh, it's alright. They are republicans, genocide is who they are.' ?
I'd suggest you quit your apologetic tone before you make more of a fool out of yourself.

I am rubber, you are glue, what you say something something sticks to you! Yeah~! GÖÑ

Bounces off you -- I like the haircut, by the way.

Actually no I wouldn't get offended at that at all. Mostly because I can agree with that statement to an extent. Also no we aren't suppose to brush it aside, we clearly didn't at Colelie.. no Republic vessels got away from that fight. What I was suggesting in my previous response was to let them do what they wish. The Gallente protect their sovereign with all their might but not go out of their way to destroy the Republic. Leave it to the Minmatar people to rid themselves of the Republic once they deem it necessary.

It sounds like you and I agree on this matter: The Federation should dissolve the alliance and go our seperate ways.

Again, let the Republic choose to dissolve an alliance with the Federation. The Federation did what it needed to do out of principle at Colelie, we need to leave it at that. If we dissolve, by principle we would be choosing to leave innocent Minmatar people to face an Amarrian Empire alone. That isn't like us in the slightest.

Again, let the Republic choose to dissolve an alliance with the Federation. The Federation did what it needed to do out of principle at Colelie, we need to leave it at that. If we dissolve, by principle we would be choosing to leave innocent Minmatar people to face an Amarrian Empire alone. That isn't like us in the slightest.

I agree that the Federation dissolving the alliance at this point would be a disproportionate response. Colelie was a catastrophic breakdown of diplomatic relations, but the overall reasons for the alliance existing in the first place still stand. If both parties are willing to work together, the alliance could very well be salvaged.

It very well could.

At the same time, it has been well over a month since Colelie, and the Republic shows no sign of even acknowledging that the battle happened. There is a difference between waiting to take action in order to be reasonable, and failing to take action by being a doormat.

I don't want to develop this -- repeating myself to people who aren't interested -- into a full fledged bad habit, because I already have a lot of those.

But I will say this one more time: we took action by jumping a fleet of dreadnaughts on top of the Minmatar fleet and blowing it to pieces. That was the action! It was taken!

They gave us a black eye, we gave em a broken arm. Aside from political/diplomatic actions be it positive or negative, I don't see a reason to waste resources on pursuing 'justice' that's already been done.

What happened has happened. The dead were avenged, be it by the fleet or the Sebiestor's firing squad. It's over with. Why continue arguing? Doing this just makes Broteau's death completes its mission.

If this keeps up, he wins.

I'm not arguing for the Federation severing ties with the Republic as some sort of revenge for the attack at Colelie. I'm arguing for it because the Republic under Shakor has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to ignore any treaty or alliance in pursuit of their goals, large or small. No matter what the cost to the Federation.

Simply put, they are not a friend worth keeping.

That's absolutely beside the point.

I frankly don't care about Broteau. I'm pleased that he's dead, and I'm perfectly willing to let him fade into the obscurity that he so richly deserves.

I'm not arguing for the Federation severing ties with the Republic as some sort of revenge for the attack at Colelie. I'm arguing for it because the Republic under Shakor has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to ignore any treaty or alliance in pursuit of their goals, large or small. No matter what the cost to the Federation.

Simply put, they are not a friend worth keeping.

To say that the Navy's response to the Republic's attack was in itself satisfaction for the attack doesn't work for me. It's almost as bad as Musana trying to excuse the whole affair by saying Colelie shouldn't matter because the Shakorites didn't succeed in destroying the Federal capital fleet.

If by action you mean rebuilding or restructuring the alliance, then yeah, that probably should be looked at. But more military action against them? No.

I'm not in favor of more killing. As I already said, I don't want to tear up treaties or close the border.

Someone has to be accountable for Colelie, and reparations have to be made.

It was a screw up on both sides in my opinion, but more or less I agree. People should come to a table, have a pint, and sit down and talk. Border closing or cannon/blaster firing aren't going to solve much.

Please don't mistake me. I'm not in favor of Roden bending over backwards to humor or further accommodate the Shakor regime's nasty habit of biting people's hands.

Instead, a frank discussion on whether both sides can agree there is any value in the alliance at all.

I'd say there's value, in terms of defense against something. Here's a hint to the something. It's big, gold, occasionally pointy, has a penchant for chains, and melts things with a really really hot beam.

Where it is pointy, it's overwhelmingly pointed at the Republic. I'll be cynical and say that if we did go our separate ways, the Empire isn't so much our problem if they're both kept busy tearing chunks from one another.

People often make a pastime out of overstating the danger that the Amarrian's reclaiming poses to us. I wouldn't dream of saying it's not something to consider, but to that particular end I'm quite sure that the alliance is worth substantially more to the Republic than it is to us.

I'd say there's value, in terms of defense against something. Here's a hint to the something. It's big, gold, occasionally pointy, has a penchant for chains, and melts things with a really really hot beam.

Once they're done with the Minmatar and absorb them, they turn to us. Just because the Minmatar are their first priority for reclaiming does not mean they won't reclaim us. Hell, they even stated they want to.


For now. Give it a few years when they come breaking down our door to save our souls. The Amarr are mentioned as a danger a lot for a reason.

To all the Gallentee who believe that they will be fare better once the Republic is gone, can you answer me one question?

Do you believe that the Federation can fight a war on two opposite fronts?

Setting the Military Aspects to the side, there are a lot of other reasons for the Alliance to continue. There's far more than just Words on a Treaty binding our peoples together. We have been brothers for many years...

History suggests that the Federation wouldn't have to.

First contact between the Federation and the Empire occurred during the first Caldari-Gallente war. The Amarr Empire was at the peak of its strength, having enslaved practically the entire Matari population and not yet having suffered its ignoble defeat at the hands of the Jove. Yet the Federation and the Empire arrived at a detente largely because both recognized that a war between them would go poorly for both.

Why should the Empire follow the same policy again if the same exact scenario was to repeat itself , considering last time they use said policy, you guys paid them back by inciting a rebellion in its territories?

Great answer!

Now let me follow up with this question.

Hypothetically speaking :

Why should the Empire follow the same policy again if the same exact scenario was to repeat itself , considering last time they use said policy, you guys paid them back by inciting a rebellion in its territories?

Oh, it's so precious when the Shakorite apologists use the Amarrians as some sort of boogeymen to worry us into coughing up more concessions, and doing things their way.

It's a tired act, we're getting wise to it.

The Amarr Empire - by their own implicit admission in the signing of the Gallente-Amarr Free Trade Agreement - didn't have the military strength to conquer the Federation outright when it wasn't trying to fight a war with the Minmatar, didn't have the Blood Raiders or Sansha's Nation to worry about and weren't having to conduct a significant amount of their military effort through a proxy state.

The Amarr Empire is most certainly a serious danger to the Federation, but not one that is so great we need ignore all other diplomatic concerns in the face of it.

I'll point out that the Kingdom, which is smaller than State and much smaller than the Federation, managed to be independent from the Empire for 300 years simply because capturing us would have been too costly. Also, we didn't attempt to invade them.

If the Empire reacquired the Republic territory, it would spend thousands of years attempting to reintegrate the Matari. Much like a python that eats a rabbit and then spends the week digesting it.

If the Empire did attempt to attack the Federation after that, I doubt the State would help. While I doubt the two will ever kiss, make up, and become best buddies, State/Federation hostility is on the wane.

In the future, I expect the State will drop its 'alliance' and become a neutral, self-interested party. Selling everyone weapons but not letting anyone get too powerful.

I'll see your hypothetical question, and I'll raise you a less hypothetical question:

Why should the Federation consider the Amarr Empire a greater threat than the Republic? The Empire has never, to my knowledge, broken a treaty that it has signed. The Republic, on the other hand...

To James Syagrius, I am sorry to have offended your friendship with the Amarrs. Please forgive me.

Yes, how dare we be upset at being backstabbed. How dare we!

Pray tell, where was it stated that we were supposed to give him back after the extradition? The court ruled he would be handed over to the Sebiestor Tribe for trial. It said nothing of handing him back afterwards. Just because a few idiotic senators thought he would be returned doesn't make it part of the deal.

But why should I be surprised at Gallenteans thinking their courts' sentencing should take precedence over another court's sentencing when they themselves handed him over to that court.