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Shpongleye
Hard Knocks Inc.
4
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
Anyone noticed that the scan deviation is way off after Odyssey? Or is it a bug? Skills not applied properly? 8 Probe interference?
Used to use 7 probes for scanning but now I use 8 because thats the way CCP wants it. (You dumbed it down! Yes you did and you know it.)
For instance, I scan a planet at 4AU and get a result, center my probes on the result and reduce them to 2AU, hit scan and its gone. I go back out to 4AU and get the scan result again, I center my probes but this time I stay at 4AU and scan again to get a better pinpoint before I reduce the scan radius to 2AU, once I go down to 2AU the scan result disappears again.
"This is the classic "filters" fuckup" no, not this time.
I never had this issue before Odyssey.
Noticed that if I scan the planet at 8AU and then go down I can get the sig, but its on the OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET from where the 4AU scan showed me where it was.
My corp members have noticed the exact same issue as well. The issue appears when I scan a planet at 4AU, get a result (red dot), center my probes and go to 2AU then hit scan.
Covert-Ops: 5 Scanning Skills: 4/4/4/4 Sisters Probes Sisters Launcher Cheetah with rigs and one of each T1 scanning arrays. +6% Implants, one of each. |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
76
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shpongleye wrote: Covert-Ops: 5 Scanning Skills: 4/4/4/4 Sisters Probes Sisters Launcher Cheetah with rigs and one of each T1 scanning arrays. +6% Implants, one of each.
i've observed quite the opposite. i've been able to 'find' a signature at 32au then drop down to 4au and it didn't move. got all 5 skills and 2 t2 pinpointing upgrades. use those instead of acquisition or even rangefinding
edit: also, they removed the '2dots' phase (it used to be a sphere, circle, 2 dots, 1 dot, depending if enough probes were hitting it) |
Scoto Timta
Heaven's End League of Infamy
19
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
There was some discussion about this in another thread here. I've come to the conclusion that there is a bug. As you may know, the old "2 dot" result was where 3 probes hit the sig. One dot was real and the other dot was way off. We never get the 2 dot result anymore. I think we are sometimes seeing that "off target" dot and the real one is not showing. Can't prove it, but it seems to be the case. |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
6
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Posted - 2013.06.18 16:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Confirming. This is happening to me too. Several times a day in fact. I have yet to see a pattern though.
Yeah, I scan to much. |
Matarella
The Last Call.
28
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Posted - 2013.06.18 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scanning skills all 4 Helios sister launcher and sister probes. 1 of each tech 1 scanning array scanning rigs
Never had this happen to be in Odyssey yet.
I always start at 8 AU around a planet. then dumb down to 2 AU and then 0.5 AU if needed (Realy only needed for relic/data sites)
I live in a Wormhole and spend a good hour per day scanning. |
astrolabus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.06.18 16:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Confirm happened to me with my wh prober alt at least five times since patch launched.Getting red dot and then no result ,then turn back again to previus AU setup and get result then scale down the AU and no result.Thought it was brain farts and didnt give it attention |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
76
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Posted - 2013.06.18 17:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
goddamit!! it's not a bug (the 2 dot thing when 3 probes hit the signature) it's a feature. it was headlined in the test server forums |
astrolabus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.06.18 17:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
i only see one red dot do you mean its the thing that gave you two diferent results in your scan?If that is the case then i only see ONE red dot not TWO like it used to be |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
76
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
astrolabus wrote:i only see one red dot do you mean its the thing that gave you two diferent results in your scan?If that is the case then i only see ONE red dot not TWO like it used to be Edit: IT IS A BUG since it used to be 2 red dots with a a lot of distance between (example : one above the planet one belowthe planet ) and you could SELECT them from your scan results and gamble 50% to set your probes in the red dot above the planet and win with your next scan or the red dot below the planet and loose. There are no two red dots results selectable anymore so yup bug report bam wam thank you mam
and that is a change they wanted to make. can't find the forum to quote it. but they did that intentionally |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
142
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Posted - 2013.06.18 19:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
So they eliminated the real dot and only left the "ghost" dot?
Useful.
Oh, wait, no it isn't.
If only three probes hit the signature, you're going to have two possible locations for the signature, because of Math. It's just like how you get a spherical shell if you hit it with one, or a circle if you hit it with two. Three gets you two possible locations.
I've also seen this as well. Someone should bug report it. You could probably reliably reproduce it if you fiddled with formations a little. |
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Shpongleye
Hard Knocks Inc.
4
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Posted - 2013.06.18 19:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
@Indo Nira, I dont know if you are aware but the two dots has been removed from the game.
I will start using 7 probes again to check if I can replicate the issue.
CCP you said the probe formations will be saved, it saves but when I relog and launch my seven probes from the launcher icon I get the spread formation, can this be patched?
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GunnersMate07
Wormholers Anonymous Transmission Lost
15
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Posted - 2013.06.18 21:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I started another thread about this, because i thought its related to the lack of the 2 dot result when only 3 probes hit a sig. I thought it was a bug, but even if its removal was intentional, the current code definitely shows the fake sig from that old code.
I have a virtue max skilled scanner with 202 sig strength, and using the -20% deviation mod i should not be having sigs disappear when centering on them and leaving probe radius the same as currently happens quite frequently in odyssey. Its gotten to the point where i actually increase radius from 4 to 8 au when i get a hit that looks full but is on the edge of my probe spheres.
I actually have much better results if its a partial one probe or two probe hit with the red circles, because at least those are not fake hits, and i never get missed hits on those. But with hits that look full on the edge of the spheres, it looks like the old 2 dot result, and i get complete misses from those all the time now.
Overall scanning is much easier, but this one bug/feature/whatever is maddening. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2014
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Like people have said, it's due the changes in the 2 dot results. You not only get the obviously incorrect result and not the real one. If you move your probes to it and downsize them, they will likely no longer pick up the real sig and it will disappear. These results are easy to spot (generally they are too far from a celestial) so just move your probe to where the correct sig should be.
This would probably squeak in at number 5 on my 5 most annoying things about the new scanner list. |
astrolabus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.06.19 01:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:This would probably squeak in at number 5 on my 5 most annoying things about the new scanner list. What are the rest 4 ? |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
2
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Posted - 2013.06.19 06:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scan deviation in wormholes is way off. In k-space, I find it pretty non existent regardless of sig strength. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2016
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Posted - 2013.06.19 06:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
astrolabus wrote:Jack Miton wrote:This would probably squeak in at number 5 on my 5 most annoying things about the new scanner list. What are the rest 4 ?
there are so many to choose from...
1. sigs automatically showing in results with no scan needed (dumbing down at its absolute peak) 2. rearanging probes being horribly painful. 3. probe always snapping to formations, not launching where your ship is (can't easily ID return wh sig) 4. probes relaunching at the same relative position to your ship 5. result off 3 probes being sh*t 6. icons being moved from top top middle of scanning window 7. scanning window frames not remembering their sizes
i could go on... |
Zara Arran
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
34
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Posted - 2013.06.19 07:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:i could go on...
Yes please, it's amusing.. -á |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
568
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Posted - 2013.06.19 07:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:astrolabus wrote:Jack Miton wrote:This would probably squeak in at number 5 on my 5 most annoying things about the new scanner list. What are the rest 4 ? there are so many to choose from... 1. sigs automatically showing in results with no scan needed (dumbing down at its absolute peak) 2. rearanging probes being horribly painful. 3. probe always snapping to formations, not launching where your ship is (can't easily ID return wh sig) 4. probes relaunching at the same relative position to your ship 5. result off 3 probes being sh*t 6. icons being moved from top top middle of scanning window 7. scanning window frames not remembering their sizes i could go on...
Please do. Preferably with screenshots. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
76
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Posted - 2013.06.19 08:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shpongleye wrote:@Indo Nira, I dont know if you are aware but the two dots has been removed from the game.
that's exactly what i was trying to say... in 3 posts... and it was intended
Jack Miton wrote: 1. sigs automatically showing in results with no scan needed (dumbing down at its absolute peak) 2. rearanging probes being horribly painful. 3. probe always snapping to formations, not launching where your ship is (can't easily ID return wh sig) 4. probes relaunching at the same relative position to your ship 5. result off 3 probes being sh*t 6. icons being moved from top top middle of scanning window 7. scanning window frames not remembering their sizes
4 out of those 7 are just a bittervet being bitter about change >.>
if you could miraculously forget everything you learned about scanning before odyssey, then relearn it, you'd notice that it's quite 'streamlined' (i think cpp said this is what they wanted to do)
and #1 says it's too easy while #3 says it's not easy enough |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
491
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Posted - 2013.06.19 09:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
WHY would that be intended? To only show the ghost sig but not the real one? This would be so stupid, I won't believe it until I see a dev post confirming it. . |
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Joan Greywind
I Moan ALOT We Moan ALOT
14
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Posted - 2013.06.19 10:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:astrolabus wrote:Jack Miton wrote:This would probably squeak in at number 5 on my 5 most annoying things about the new scanner list. What are the rest 4 ? there are so many to choose from... 1. sigs automatically showing in results with no scan needed (dumbing down at its absolute peak) 2. rearanging probes being horribly painful. 3. probe always snapping to formations, not launching where your ship is (can't easily ID return wh sig) 4. probes relaunching at the same relative position to your ship 5. result off 3 probes being sh*t 6. icons being moved from top top middle of scanning window 7. scanning window frames not remembering their sizes i could go on...
1. it is dumbing down, but as a pure gameplay mechanic I think it is better, you enter and know the relative number of sigs in the wh/system. If you are also skilled enough you can scan the planets with the most sigs first etc. It is easier, but not that much actually. 4. I don't understand the problem with this. (i really don't, how is that causing problems) 5. why would you scan with 3 probes? (other than in the rare cases where you only have 3, especially that probes automatically return to the cargo hold on jump)
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GunnersMate07
Wormholers Anonymous Transmission Lost
15
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Did you not read the rest of the thread? His number 5 is what the rest of us were talking about. Its not scanning with only three probes, its the partial result we get when only 3 probes touch the sig |
Zara Arran
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
34
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 11:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:1. it is dumbing down, but as a pure gameplay mechanic I think it is better, you enter and know the relative number of sigs in the wh/system. If you are also skilled enough you can scan the planets with the most sigs first etc. It is easier, but not that much actually.
Getting information like a new signature appearing without having to do anything for it, but have your eyes open, in my opinion is bad. And I kind of hope that all PVPers find this a bad thing. For me, this is indeed dumbing things down. Safety in wormholes should be something you have to work for, not what you get handed on a silver platter. It gives pilots outside of a POS the knowledge that someone new could be out there hunting you (and POS up again).
IMHO: bad direction of CCP to take. It's making WHs more and more safe. -á |
Resilan Bearcat
Fighting Carebears
11
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Posted - 2013.06.19 18:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
I spent some time playing with this last night and was able to reliably reproduce the behavior with any signature. I have the following skills for scanning.
Astrometrics 4 Rangefinding/Acquisition/Pinpointing 3 The three new scanning modules Sisters launcher and probes Covert Ops 4 +6 scanning implants
I lose signatures most often when moving from a 4 AU scan to a 2 AU scan. It doesn't happen every time but it is happening fairly frequently.
Last night, I had a couple of troublesome sigs so I decided to experiment and found that I could reliably reproduce the issue with any signature. It is happening when only 3 probes hit the signature which is often the case with sigs which are close to or slightly beyond 4 AU from the planet. The incorrect mathematical result is being returned as the signature. Nice feature CCP! This is extremely confusing to new scanners.
The best workaround I found was an initial scan of a planet at 8 AU and then skipping 4 AU and jump straight to 2 AU for the next scan. It wasn't perfect, but overall I had much fewer issues with this approach. |
Shpongleye
Hard Knocks Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Seven probes give the issue as frequently as eight probes.
CCP, can you confirm if this is a bug?
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Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
4
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Posted - 2013.06.20 07:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zara Arran wrote:
IMHO: bad direction of CCP to take. It's making WHs more and more safe.
Your in for a surprise next time some1 jumps in.
Edit: I've realized that the scan deviation problem only exists when using the truly terrible pinpoint config. 6 probes on one plane is just begging for problems & inefficiencies. |
Shpongleye
Hard Knocks Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 09:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:Zara Arran wrote:
IMHO: bad direction of CCP to take. It's making WHs more and more safe.
Your in for a surprise next time some1 jumps in. Edit: I've realized that the scan deviation problem only exists when using the truly terrible pinpoint config. 6 probes on one plane is just begging for problems & inefficiencies.
Not true, it does occur when using any kind of formation as long as three probes hit the sig and we get the "ghost" dot. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
148
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Posted - 2013.06.20 10:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:Edit: I've realized that the scan deviation problem only exists when using the truly terrible pinpoint config. 6 probes on one plane is just begging for problems & inefficiencies. Yeah, I don't think you understand how the system works. Sorry. |
Zara Arran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.06.20 10:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:Zara Arran wrote:
IMHO: bad direction of CCP to take. It's making WHs more and more safe.
Your in for a surprise next time some1 jumps in.
I did't say it was safe, I said more safe. -á |
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