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Introduction of Miner II's... WHAT THE HECK?

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Dominion Alaris	Posted - 2003.08.10 16:10:00 - [31] Discoveries in RL are often made in random manner. Anybody heard the story of how the penicillin was discovered. The guy accidentaly ruined his experiment regarding a totally different matter and literaly stumbles over the thing. We don't have inventors in Eve so they roleplay things instead of inventing them to get them into play... that sounds fair to me... Nobody of you would complain if someone gave YOU a tech lvl 2 250 railgun bp just like the Miner II bp came into play. It's just an issue because you don't have the bp!
Outof Mysights	Posted - 2003.08.10 16:13:00 - [32] Quote: i'd just like to point out that TTI also has 3 polaris members in there corp. You mean three Polaris players have alts in TTI? Someone cannot be member of two corps at the same time.
Lysithea	Posted - 2003.08.10 16:19:00 - [33] The advantage is this: They are selling the lasers for 5.5 million each, and they can build one every 30 minutes. Doing the math, they can build 48 per day multiplied by 5.5 million and that is a revenue of 264 million per day. I don't know the production costs, but I am sure they aren't anywhere near that. This is a completely unfair and unjust advantage that teh GMs pushed onto someone. That plus the changes on Chaos will force many players to leave.
Zagum Darkfin	Posted - 2003.08.10 16:19:00 - [34] This is a classic example of not what you know but WHO you know gets you ahead. Come on guys, work those PR skills and you too can be given stuff for free. Make those contacts and Brown nose!! I say, let them eat cake!! If you are the dumbass who buys a Miner 2 now, then I have no sympathy for you. Please, pay the fee while I laugh my ass off. If these are the only BPs of Miner 2s in the game for 2 weeks time, then we should be ****ed at CCP. I have to agree, this is the lamest way to add content to a game and it even was not Roleplayed or Planned. Amateurs, plain and simple
Skeeve	Posted - 2003.08.10 16:57:00 - [35] Setec.. I'll refrain from starting a flame war here... I'm not "*****in" about a "discovered" BP or a "found" advantage... I'm talking about a hasty decision made by the powers that be to run a quick bit of "protectus anus" for giving out that tech5 laser. If the parties in question had found the bp and it was available to be "found" by others .. well Huzzah and Hurrah good for them. I'm disappointed that this was done in a slipshod fashion. granting an unfair advantage to some well "connected" corp cronies. If you had bothered to read and understand the gist of what was being said here you would have understood that. Not ONE of us "whiners" have anything negative to say about a good loot drop or "find".. these can be found throughout the Universe.. they are NOT handed to someone because an error was made and no one else has any oppourtunity to do the same. Stupid Post? maybe.. but I would look in the mirror if I were you before railing about "stupid posts"... N'est Pas?
Ehxo	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:03:00 - [36] CCP shoudlnt' introduce new tech and modules that way at all. This was very bad planing and a bad decision. Favoring some players and just "giving" them the goods is purely unfair and unjustified. There are plenty of other ways to introduce new tech that is that good in the community. You don't have to give it to someone. Juts give everybody an equal chance of getting it by spreading roleplaying rumours saying that some system around this system has some new research going on and such and such... then leave the players figure it out and see if they will find it... or simply put the damn thing on the market in some faction speciific owned systems... or introduce the damn black market, but do something FAIR for the rest of the people... don't just go and GIVE that kind of tech to specific individuals!? This is not lottery! If it was then everybody should have had the chance to buy a ticket!
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:03:00 - [37] setec if your sadass corp actually ever MADE any cash you might be qualified to comment, but what pathetic cash you do make comes from gate piracy etc and has nothing to do with bps. I respected you as a pirate a lot more before u became a lapdog fanboi supporter of tit. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Princess Akmazara	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:11:00 - [38] Skeeve my dear I would ask you this. What if these people were just allowed to keep their Miner V's? It was an admitted accident that one was released by a Developer. The fact that it was sold is simply the capitalistic exploiter at work (he should've shared its technology with us all). Still he sold it which is part of the game. Everyone is saying the BP is much more valuable. Lets imagine for a minute they just kept the ONE Miner V they had instead. Now lets say down the road a month or two we finally see reverse engineering enter the game. Imagine they successfully reverse engineer the Miner V!!!!!! I can only imagine the screaming then. These people did nothing wrong and CCP is doing its best to resolve the situation. I wasn't here then but I heard there was a rollback once and I heard people were all up in arms about it. Wouldn't have just "taking" the Miner V's from these people and giving them their initial money back been a rollback of sorts? Everyone is so self-righteous about this its sick. I'm no fan of these super-rich people or corporations ingame or real life but I do not think they have done anything wrong. If CCP has made a decision thats unpopular just quit. I think we can survive this just as we've survived other problems. BTW charging 5 million for a mining laser? Get real! Princess Akmazara Amarrian Empire
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:23:00 - [39] I refrain from calling the owners of these blueprints greedy. They are just responding to demand. And demand is very high. I would imagine that they could have sold these for 8 mill each easily. If someone was willing to pay you 5 Million for something that cost you 20k to make, would you turn him down? I would imagine people are offering more to jump the waiting list too. If people were unwilling to pay the 5.5 mil, the price would go down. But this will not happen. A fool and his money are soon parted. And there's one born every minute... But you can't blame the buyers for responding to demand. .
Skeeve	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:29:00 - [40] My Lady Princess... of course you are correct.. NO one was suggesting that they be allowed to keep that item. It was an error by a Dev.. not out of malice just an error.. plain and simple. The issue is that the recompense for the item in question has caused serious issues with player confidence in the decision making power of CCP. Giving out 2 BP copies was bound to cause chaos.. and it has. An appropriate level of recompense for the high tech item? I have no idea... perhaps a one time isk renumeration? bp copies of lesser but available in game items/ships? as it stands the holders have an artificial monopoly on a unique item that NO ONE else can access save purchase. And if they want to spend 5mil.. more power to them that's their waste of money. I'm not yelling about the item Princess I thought I had made that clear.. it's the way this situation was grossly mishandled and still NO EXPLINATION OR APOLOGY from CCP.. thank you for your post my love.. be well "Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult
Quantum Gopher	Posted - 2003.08.10 17:38:00 - [41] Imagine the fury if the two entities that owned the Tech 5 mining lasers were actually able to reverse engineer them and make them available on the market for even more than 5.5 million. We'd see complaints about that too, I'm sure. 5.5 million...hmm...anyone give quantity discounts? I'm sure we'll see many more items introduced this way into EVE through events, trades or exploration. Q. Gopher __________ I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!!
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2003.08.10 18:11:00 - [42] Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 10/08/2003 18:12:30 Quote: This is a step in the correct direction. It makes some corps unique. So they have miner II's someone else will get other tech 2 bp's. Eventually we may see them on the market as well when tech 3 nears release. No it¦s not. Putting those two BPs on the market in two different regions far away from each other would have been a step in the right direction. This would have given ALL corps in the game a chance to become unique, not just one. IMO this is unfair and if this continues I¦ll stop playing. Where¦s the point in playing when you know other people get uberelite stuff for free just cause they know some dev or whatever? If this really happened then I must ask CCP to get their stuff straight and stop this BS. Mai's Idealog
Setec	Posted - 2003.08.10 18:14:00 - [43] Quote: setec if your sadass corp actually ever MADE any cash you might be qualified to comment, but what pathetic cash you do make comes from gate piracy etc and has nothing to do with bps. I respected you as a pirate a lot more before u became a lapdog fanboi supporter of tit. LOL. We make plenty of cash. In the last several weeks I'd say gate piracy is a minority of our pirating income--most of it is in roid fields and popular planet/moon/sun spawns. Many of our heists have been a lot more complicated than any of m0o's wild west killing frenzies. I've made quite a bit of my personal money through Moa BP copy sales, cause I bought myself a Moa original a couple months ago. However, the almighty Stavros is infinitely more qualified to speak about bps, because... um... he made a bunch of money producing Mallers? Whatever. And as for being a lapdog fanboi supporter of TTI... sure, why not? I respect most of the TTI members that I've come to know well, and we enjoy our mutually beneficial alliance with them. As non-pirates go, they really are the cream of the crop. I started this game suspicious of TTI because I disliked all large guilds in my previous MMORPG--they were impersonal, chaotic organizations with very low standards, and I suspected TTI might be the same. But I've realized as I got to know them that they're a very organized and very well-managed group of gamers who are better at what they do than most. They're mostly intelligent, rational people who I enjoy playing with, and our alliance benefits my corporation, so you're damn right I'm a TTI supporter. I don't really think "lapdog" is the right word, cause we're not getting any handouts from TTI. They're simply an economic boost to all corps in our alliance--they create a mineral supply on the open market, for example, so we can buy minerals at or slightly above NPC price instead of having to scurry back and forth from Lonetrek all the time in indys or having to do our own mining. We buy and sell modules, bp copies, etc, at fair prices with the convenience of trading with players based in the same region. They lend additional manpower to the region defense, but we do just as much. So I'm a pirate who's found it beneficial to ally with a respected group of wealthy industrialists. Deal with it. I focus on profit and fun--trying to run an efficient organization whose members never need to do boring things like mining. I don't focus on impressing less intelligent hot-headed egomaniacs like Stavros. :P ___________________________________________ Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net
Yoshokun	Posted - 2003.08.10 18:45:00 - [44] Thank you for the commentary on TTI, Setec. I think a lot of people in EVE should spend less time getting their opinions of TTI and Venal Alliance from a forum and more from personal dealings. Most will find that TTI, scary enough, really likes to have fun. The black trenchcoats and sunglasses are really just for our "Dress like a scary, rich capitalist" Tuesdays. And Princess, I was very happy, actually, to read your thoughts on this issue. Despite differences in philosophy and some initial misgivings on my part, I must say that I am impressed and refreshed by most of your views on this issue. If you would ever like to drop me a line for some conversation, my email address is below.
Princess Akmazara	Posted - 2003.08.10 19:47:00 - [45] My dear Yoshukun, Thank you so much for the invitation to write. I will do so in the near future. While I believe the wealthy have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate I do believe TTI has been misrepresented in these threads by people who seem to hate them for no reason. That being said I do wish TTI would consider sharing some of their vast wealth with new players to give them a head start. I'm planning a new company which will provide aid and comfort to the downtrodden. The Sisters as we will be known are a religious order of the Amarrian faith. After being tossed out of the Royal Palace by my father because I refused to look down on everyone I have dedicated my life to helping the less fortunate. Surely even you can see capitalistic people such as TTI hurt the poor and less fortunate? I call on all the wealthy of EVE to stand up and share the wealth with the poor, the tired and the hungry. According to legend a famous statue once stood on Ancient Earth. It said "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free". I say to the wealthy that Gallante, Caldari and Amarrian alike need your help. Support them and give them the head start they deserve in thier quest for higher achievment. It is up to us all to nurture the future. The village community of EVE must not fail in its responsibilities. Sincerly, Princess Akmazara Amarrian Empire
Calalbran	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:11:00 - [46] Princess - sure, TTI could give some of their vast wealth to new players. But why? Many of us have helped Noobies, and will continue to do so. Sometimes in equipment, or locations, or protecting while they mine, or even something towards the cost of a better ship. If individuals (or corps) want to give something, they can do. But thats up to them. However, giving too much to someone isn't good. Any corp should have some money - and use it mainly for its own members.
Mungis	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:41:00 - [47] From the start of Eve this game world has been plagued by real life aspects :) If you look at this thing from a practical point of few... it makes every bit of business sense for CCP to be spooning with TTI. Why you askà simply put, Eve is dieing and TTI is a loyal dedicated fan base that brings in revenue. Has anyone looked at the server stats on Eve-I lately? Frankly, they are pathetic. The growth rate of this game is almost non-existent. But take a moment to look back at the major changes (nerfs) that were put into place because of a money issue. CCP had to axe pirating (at least in a big way) to make the game safe for noobies. You canÆt have people quitting after a few days when their ibis is gunned down by people with nothing better to do. Frankly, there really is nothing better then sitting at a gate, chatting with your friends, and making mad money off of lag and player stupidity. Would anyone argue that this beats staring at a rock for 8 hours a day? The irony is that now on Chaos server they are testing yet another nerf to MWD that will make it even more useless. I suspect this is now an effort to give something back to the pirates, making it harder to make a run for the gate using MWD. (Something in the past that was the only way around a blockade. Now, I get to look forward to coming out of warp (lagging about 10 seconds) and then having to try and hit my MWD to get away. To lateà dead dead dead. But who am I to complain? Oh waità the person that is paying for the mess. So donÆt tell me for a second that I shouldnÆt feel slightly frustrated at the blatant favoritism. There is only one thing I hate more than liarsà and that is people who suck at it.
Mungis	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:43:00 - [48] Quote: Thank you for the commentary on TTI, Setec. I think a lot of people in EVE should spend less time getting their opinions of TTI and Venal Alliance from a forum and more from personal dealings. Most will find that TTI, scary enough, really likes to have fun. The black trenchcoats and sunglasses are really just for our "Dress like a scary, rich capitalist" Tuesdays. Pathetic arrogance sickens me And Princess, I was very happy, actually, to read your thoughts on this issue. Despite differences in philosophy and some initial misgivings on my part, I must say that I am impressed and refreshed by most of your views on this issue. If you would ever like to drop me a line for some conversation, my email address is below.
Princess Akmazara	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:44:00 - [49] If EVE is so dead why are you here?
Shovasta	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:48:00 - [50] Perhaps this is just a small part of a grander plan....Rogue Jove setting up home in Stain, Who's to say they plan to stay there.
Spruance	Posted - 2003.08.10 20:54:00 - [51] Edited by: Spruance on 10/08/2003 20:54:16 Mungis, TTI has about 300 members I think. When I log onto Tranquility in the evening I see 4500-5000 people logged on at once. So I'm going to assume they have between 20,000-40,000 subscribers? Given these numbers the assertion they would spoon-feed any company because of 300 members is ridiculous. Spruance
Mungis	Posted - 2003.08.10 21:03:00 - [52] shrug, look at server stats average users over last 3 months = 3263 so maybe your math is off... 20,000-40,000?? wow Did I say Eve was dead? Read first, then insert witty comeback. PS The scale of TTI is beyond a mere 300 member population. Use logic please... and a bit of deductive reasoning.
Skeeve	Posted - 2003.08.11 01:12:00 - [53] Good people.. again it's not about who has the most UberCorp or who has a case of "mine is bigger than yours".. my origional post was a heartfelt concern about a serious situation. I think I've made my point time over time, this particular action by CCP has caused issues with player confidence. Serious issues... I doubt that they will respond, but we can only hope. Best of luck all... I only hope this doesn't happen again. "Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult
Calalbran	Posted - 2003.08.11 06:25:00 - [54] Average of 3263? Sounds about right. But averages don't mean a lot out of context. I log on several times a day - can rarely play for more than 30 mins at a time. I've seen users as low as 1200, as high as over 6000. If you figure the industry's own stats for users and people with subscriptions is 4 subscriptions for every user at max, you are looking at about 25000 total subscribers. Of course not all will be on at once - we are in different time zones, have different real lives etc. 25K isn't bad - look at the big names in the business - they had similar subscribers back in their first few months (Ultima Online and everquest, though at this point I think Eve beats Ultima for its 3/4 month fanbase).

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