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Darvaleth Sigma
Progressive State State Section 9
309
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 18:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
Buy a Deadspace MWD that has tiny (or none at all if you're spacerich) penalties. Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |

Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
65
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 18:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:Selena Brutor wrote:Why not jump out? This frees you up to use sentries instead of fighters, which is good because fighters suck, really. how long does it take to ramp up a jump? Quote:Or you could just...ya know...always be aligned to something. Carriers move slow as ****, and it's not like you are gonna screw up your tracking or anything
because if your moving then you cant use sentries which are way better than fighters Quote:no piloting 101 is dont rat in your carrier and yet people do it successfully. So...how about my original question. Roughly how much extra time/acceleration would it take to warp off after using 1 cycle of AB?
I did the same with Orca and it was negligible. Especially if I was traveling where you are not aligned to start. |

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 19:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Selena Brutor wrote:Stetson Eagle wrote:Yep, instant jump if you have capacitor for jump. Sentry ratting doesn't consume it. Well you also need enough fuel to make the jump, and you need a cyno within range to jump to.
how much isk worth of fuel do you burn in a jump?
Quote:I did the same with Orca and it was negligible. Especially if I was traveling where you are not aligned to start.
lets assume im ratting using sentries so just sitting in one spot aligned and all I need is to reach velocity. A 10s cycle of AB is going to add x amount of velocity. When the cycle is finished ill need to accelerate on my own to reach 75% velocity.
A carrier has like a 28s align on its own
A MWD can get the job done in one 10s cycle and thats probably overkill. Probably at 8s if it were to turn off you would still have the velocity needed to warp
An AB is going to be somewhere in between. 20s warp out....15?
Maybe the orca is such a giant beast that its a bad test case for the AB. |

Lilliana Stelles
799
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 20:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jump fuel is dependent on distance.
But you'll have to be in a corp with a cyno beacon anchored nearby... unless you want to just run a cyno-itty full of fuel all day, which would cut into your ratting profits. Incarna from 2009. 3 Years later and what we have doesn't look half as good as this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A |

Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 22:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:A MWD can get the job done in one 10s cycle and thats probably overkill. Probably at 8s if it were to turn off you would still have the velocity needed to warp
Let's do the math. A Nidhoggur (lowest mass carrier) has a mass of 1,014,750 tons. If we add the 50k ton mass the 100MN MWD adds when active, then that MWD will be 150000 / 1064750 = about 14.1% effective, meaning the MWD will only increase the max velocity of the Archon by 5 * .141 = 70.5%. To reach 75% of its base speed, it has to reach 0.75 / 1.705 = 44% of it's MWD speed.
Base inertia modifier of the Nidhoggur is 0.046. With the typical skills of a carrier pilot, that should reduce to 0.01863. Using the acceleration formula, the amount of time to reach 44% MWD speed from 0 would be 11.5 seconds, which is just a bit longer than a single MWD cycle. After a 10 second cycle started at 0 velocity, it would take about 5 more seconds or normal acceleration to hit warp velocity. A better way to go would be to let the ship accelerate for 3 or so seconds before activating the MWD and you'd be golden.
None of the other carriers are going to beat the Nidhoggur here in overall performance with this tactic. The Chimera is technically slightly more maneuverable, but it has the most mass of any carrier, and that has a big influence on the effectiveness of this tactic.
Quote:An AB is going to be somewhere in between. 20s warp out....15? I wouldn't expect an AB to offer much value here. The tiny boost in speed it would give you only barely makes up for the reduced acceleration it's mass addition would create.
Quote:Maybe the orca is such a giant beast that its a bad test case for the AB. Carriers are more maneuverable than Orcas, but they are also significantly more massive which is the most important factor when determining the performance of a prop mod. |

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 22:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
How does it work that accelerating before the 1 cycle of mwd is better than accelerating after the mwd activation? |

Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 23:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:How does it work that accelerating before the 1 cycle of mwd is better than accelerating after the mwd activation? Your acceleration decreases the closer to your max velocity you are. Thus, it will take you less time to gain X speed from 0 than it would from some other positive non-zero velocity. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1626
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
What you're asking needs more specifics, like what level do you have Afterburner trained to?
At level 5 you're looking at a 7.5 second cycle time from a 100mn AB, which you will need to run for 2 cycles then shut down and wait about 3-4 seconds of actual align time.
Also the MWD doesn't simply 'do it' in one single, theres a little drift time involved in either case.
Regardless, you shouldn't rat in your carrier, and yes a PL guy is telling you this. Eventually you will screw up, you will get caught, stuck on something, or just plain outright screw up.
The trade from using the carriers increased DPS isn't worth the financial loss at its death when you can get most of that DPS out of any random BS hull and do the plexes at nearly the same speed.
You using a carrier will have a slight DPS increase, while attracting all the people that like to hunt ratting carriers. You need to slip up once, and only once, and you're then short y our fit and ship for what? 300 dps over what you might achieve out of a battleship?
How is that worth it? |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2899
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Remove local and this won't be an issue. |

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:What you're asking needs more specifics, like what level do you have Afterburner trained to?
At level 5 you're looking at a 7.5 second cycle time from a 100mn AB, which you will need to run for 2 cycles then shut down and wait about 3-4 seconds of actual align time.
Also the MWD doesn't simply 'do it' in one single, theres a little drift time involved in either case.
Regardless, you shouldn't rat in your carrier, and yes a PL guy is telling you this. Eventually you will screw up, you will get caught, stuck on something, or just plain outright screw up.
The trade from using the carriers increased DPS isn't worth the financial loss at its death when you can get most of that DPS out of any random BS hull and do the plexes at nearly the same speed.
You using a carrier will have a slight DPS increase, while attracting all the people that like to hunt ratting carriers. You need to slip up once, and only once, and you're then short y our fit and ship for what? 300 dps over what you might achieve out of a battleship?
How is that worth it?
Ill decide if its worth it after i see how long I can go before losing a carrier. I intend to fit my carrier with all modules added in for 1.6bil total. If what I hear is true about carrier ratting your looking at 100mil/hr.
A carrier has 1600dps with extremly good DPS application. The BS Ive seen might get up to 1400dps but with many drawbacks in terms of applying that dps. So at best their getting 2/3 the DPS of a carrier and possibly worse.
if a carrier makes 100m/hr then Im assuming BS make 70ish? someone correct me if Im wrong.
How much more often will the carrier be destroyed? i dont know but it should be more than once a month and what Im hearing from people is they havent lost a carrier in a year or more.
If a carrier is making 30mil/hr more than a bs then playing for 3hrs a day 3 days a week(assuming will be doing pvp the other 2-3 days) Im making and extra 1 bil a month using the carrier. As long Im losing a carrier every 2 months or longer then its a win in terms of isk and fun factor. And on the plus side a bunch of people get to have fun killing a carrier and I get to blow some ships up hopefully in PVP defending myself. Maybe someday Ill learn to not lose the carriers.
And of course theres a long time period before Ill actually fly that carrier so ill learn along the way. maybe at the finish line ill decide to skip the carrier. But int he meantime Im going to plan accordingly
|

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nikolai Lachance wrote:Ciyrine wrote:How does it work that accelerating before the 1 cycle of mwd is better than accelerating after the mwd activation? Your acceleration decreases the closer to your max velocity you are. Thus, it will take you less time to gain X speed from 0 than it would from some other positive non-zero velocity.
I didnt realize thanks |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1632
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 03:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote: if a carrier makes 100m/hr then Im assuming BS make 70ish? someone correct me if Im wrong.
Right so these numbers are dependent on where you're ratting, because some rats can be a trivial thing to kill, and then theres things like angels which are a pain in the ass (with the added benefit of loot sucking).
Like take Fountain for example. You can use 2 accounts (you're already spending 1.6 billion on a carrier, you could easily power of two with that money so saying you dont have 2 accounts isn't really a thing) and with a Scimitar and Talos make about 90m/hr in Fountain.
The same for Bloods, or Sansha by moving to a Oracle/Onieros set up, and I'm told that the caldari T3 works about the same on Guristas.
Thats a t3 BC and a t2 logi, which probably could be swapped out for a t1 logi without much problem. Dirt cheap, falling just 10/hr than your 1.6 billion isk target.
The benefits include taking that 1.6 billion and giving yourself a useful second account, while not looking like a derp because you lost a carrier ratting.
But, whatever, ive spent the time trying to show you all the different ways this is a bad idea that you could easily emulate in non bad ways, fly free my dodo bird, fly free. |

Shirakus
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
10
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Posted - 2013.06.20 08:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:a carrier with 100mn MWD. 1 cycle of MWD then turn off the MWD puts the carrier at 75% velocity so it can warp out at the end of the 10 second MWD cycle. but MWD have negative effect on your capacitor
I was wondering if I used a 100mn AB on the carrier. And ran 1 cycle of the AB. How many more seconds of regular acceleration do you think it would take to hit 75% of max velocity to warp out? Im willing to absorbe a few seconds of extra acceleration to warp out to avoid the MWD capacitor hit
Use a Core X mwd, no cap penalty on those.
|

The Renner
Canadian Operations Yulai Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 10:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:
if a carrier makes 100m/hr then Im assuming BS make 70ish? someone correct me if Im wrong.
A high dps bs like a navy geddon or vindicator can make 100+ an hour. |

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 13:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ive heard of carriers making 500mil/hr. But the numbers I usually hear and makes me believe its closer to the average is 100m/hr for carriers and 70 for BS |

handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 13:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Using dual accounts should net you about 280M/hour using carriers, this should be possible even in the drone regions.
Using faction battleships is about as ******** than using carriers imho. It takes a Mach 7.5 sec to warp out, a carrier can either Jump out, or it takes 10 seconds to warp out using an overheated MWD. Faction battleships have to be faction fit to reach the effective DPS of a sentry carrier, which makes them more expensive to lose even without insurance on the carrier. Baddest poster ever |

Ciyrine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 16:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:Using dual accounts should net you about 280M/hour using carriers, this should be possible even in the drone regions.
Using faction battleships is about as ******** than using carriers imho. It takes a Mach 7.5 sec to warp out, a carrier can either Jump out, or it takes 10 seconds to warp out using an overheated MWD. Faction battleships have to be faction fit to reach the effective DPS of a sentry carrier, which makes them more expensive to lose even without insurance on the carrier.
1) what pushes 2 carriers to 280/hr if one carrier is roughly 100/hr? How do u run ur rat carriers?
2) u said "as *******" than using carriers. Do u not recomend either? |
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