Oh h*ll no, itty 4 is one of the best indus there is. Also you are removing over 1k hp from the itty 5, how is that going to give it 50% more base hp compared to the old?

Not sure the agility bonused ones are agile enough to make the bonus worth while - even a battleship without a sensor booster should be able to lock them before they warp.

For such cheap hulls they all appear to haul a lot now.

Two things about this proposal strike me as pointlessly irritating:

- The Itty5 losing its cargo crown to the Bestower is a slap in the face for everyone who trained Gal Indy 5 specifically to maximize their sub-capital hauling capacity (and for the record, that does not include me). That wold be fine if there was a solid reason for the change -- then you could give the customary "your 30 days' training granted you a benefit for a long time, but it has to change now and that's that" -- but in this case, there is no solid reason. The Bestower doesn't have to be bigger than the Itty5; they're so close that you might as well swap their numbers so that the Itty5 remains on top. The only reason to make the Itty5 worse than the new Bestower at exactly what the Itty5 was previously best at is if you're intentionally trying to be a jerk to current Itty5 pilots.

Yes but the reason some people trained gallente industrial to level 5 was because it had the LARGEST cargo capacity. If they knew the Amarr were going to have it they would have trained Amarr Industrial to 5 instead. I being one that did train gallente 5 on more than one character for that very reason I even had a character that a friend had given me that was trained to minmatar indy v and i took the time training it to gallente v for the LARGEST cargo capacity. So I do take it as a kick in the nuts when there is no valid reason for making another races hauler bigger now.
I personally would be more supportive of removing the racial haulers and going to Ore for all haulers up to and including Jump freighters.

Can we drop a lowslot from all of them and give them a hardwired damage control II?

I am a wormhole resident.

There are two things that I have mixed feelings about:

Large Haulers to get only 1 high slot. (down 1). For us the Iteron Mark V has been the pinnacle of wormhole hauling. Easy on the wormholes, large storage, a cloak and a probe if you get stuck. It has been the only ship to use. The loss of that highslot means we have less fallback options; and probably means a dedicated scanning frigate per interim system (for us - generally 1). We will have 'interesting choices' that have to be made; but for us; this is a hard nerf.

The Bestower takes the crown as the largest hauler (39201m3 t1 rigs/t2 expanders/max skill) from the Iteron Mark V (38433m3 similar configuration). While the manufacturer in me rejoices; the pilot weeps. I trained Gallente Industrial 5 to have the maximum size T1 hauler. The difference is marginal (2%), but I fear I am still coming down with the beginnings of bitter vet syndrome.

i still hope warp-acceleration will be a ship-attribute at some point...

This. Though I like the idea of barring or limiting cargo expanders in haulers (like Damage controls, so there is a precedent for the mechanic) and giving them a generous base cargo hold increase (maybe equivalent to half a rack of expanders?) would be a good thing. I think that this would free pilots to actually use those low slots to make meaningful decisions about ship fitting.

Right now 90% of industrials have all cargo expanders in the lows. To me, this is a sign of bad design that is easily rectified. IMHO. it also makes sense to limit cargo expanders...

I come across questions from newbies that we take on, if there are any ships between those t1 industrials.. and freighters.

Often people look for ways to transport "medium sized" heaps of goods (compared to a freighter volume), that may also be faster than a freighter. I heard this is many channels by now, the question if there is somthing "bigger than a t1, but smaller than a freighter"


So i think there is some sort of demand for ships that can take on 100k - 200k m-¦


Even though i think that those t1 ships are for sure too "small" to take on such a load. So no clue if it would be possible to "resize" any of them to look bigger and take on such a role? Even though i bet it would look awkward. May really be better for some future plans if new ships are introduced.

Just throwing it out there for some additional ideas or thoughts.

DST are really far away from the 100-200k m-¦ range. They're closer to 35k, I think. (if we can trust the eve wiki).
By the way, for the others, DST are deep space transport (T2 indus).

And they are as hard to train as an orca, with the new orca prerequisites (racial industrial V is very long to train). :<

I was in the 100k m3 camp for a while, but having spoken to some corpmates about it, I'm not so sure a 100k m3 DST would be what I'd do with it.

I'm not really "sold" that bigger = better for DSTs anymore. Granted, I'd love a huge DST with a smaller mass than an Orca since I live in a wormhole, but I think in order to balance it out, the tank consideration would have to be lowered. Under a 100k m3 scenario, the Orca would likely have to be nerfed in its main cargo bay (which it should anyway, but sleeper loot is small, so not sure of impact) to make DSTs more attractive, but the Orca would still have it beat with tank (~230k ehp--more than a freighter wtf), SMA, ore hold, slots, ability to boost, etc. However, the fact that a mining support ship performs better than haulers that pilots spend their precious sp training on, specializing in the art of getting goods from one point to the next is appalling.

So I don't know where exactly I stand on DSTs now. I agree there should be a transport that can survive in deep space. Does that mean a truly armored transport? A ship that can defend (and attack) off its attackers? Maybe something with a modest hold (25-30k), big tank (or active tanked but useful) and ability to fight and defend itself? I think the 100k m3 is good niche for *some* future hauler, and there is a need for a sub-freighter-but-bigger-than-a-T1-hold that IS NOT a mining support ship or 6.5 billion Jump Freighter.

But this raises a few questions: Does that really fit with the skills a hauler is likely to have? Does that matter? Should haulers carrying stuff have to use an escort? Does that promote social play or a dual account webber? Aside from these questions, I don't know if a bigger DST really fixes the problems, given that freighters are there and do hold a lot. Maybe it makes more sense now that racial Industrial V is no longer a prerequirement on freighters, and T2 haulers and freighters have a slightly divergent skill train.