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What is the point of lvl4 missions?

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Admiral Pieg Aztek Industries 2	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:44:00 - [1] - Quote If you can solo lvl4 missions it means you can fly a battleship. If you can fly a battleship, you can get into a newbie friendly incursion fleet and make far more money and lp than any lvl4. You only have to get into a HQ fleet for a couple of hours to buy a faction or pirate battleship and then its all down hill from there, so what is the point of running missions and barely make 20 mill an hour when you can make 4-5 times that amount in the same time with even less risk and effort?
Dave Stark 3187	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:51:00 - [2] - Quote because you don't need a group of other people to do level 4 missions. next question?
S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District 13	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:59:00 - [3] - Quote 1. Other people suck 2. Other people suck 3. Logistics 4. You're underestimating mission income 5. Commitment 6. Faction grinding 7. Missile skills Pick a few? Both strike me as unendurably boring personally.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2196	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:26:00 - [4] - Quote I do both and since we are talking high sec incursions and high sec lvl 4 missions, I actually do way more than just that, I like all kinds of PVE. Many times Im doing high sec PVe because null sec is a bit hot for my taste and low sec can be fun or it can be a pain. High Sec Missions have one very nice feature that no other activity in EVE has. Solitude+ safety . I deal with people all day and sometimes i don't even what to hear anyone on comms lol. in high sec I don't even have to look at local and I don't fly a loot pinata so if I get ganked it was just a random act of terror (having been suicide ganked in years). Null sec anom farming has solitude to, but you're always having to watch local, intel, and beware of awox attemps. Incursions are GREAT fun and great isk, but it's also a lot of paying attention lol. No, if you want to be left alone to shoot red Xs, high sec missions are where it's at. it's like mining, only with guns.
Admiral Pieg Aztek Industries 2	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:27:00 - [5] - Quote S Byerley wrote: 1. Other people suck 2. Other people suck 3. Logistics 4. You're underestimating mission income 5. Commitment 6. Faction grinding 7. Missile skills Pick a few? Both strike me as unendurably boring personally. There are plenty of dedicated player made channels for incursions brimming with people looking for a fleet. How am i underestimating mission income? Last i checked 20-30 mill was what you got paid if you were really good at doing missions. If you think other people suck then why are you playing a MMO? Very confusing.
Gimme more Cynos Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 60	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:41:00 - [6] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: S Byerley wrote: 1. Other people suck 2. Other people suck 3. Logistics 4. You're underestimating mission income 5. Commitment 6. Faction grinding 7. Missile skills Pick a few? Both strike me as unendurably boring personally. There are plenty of dedicated player made channels for incursions brimming with people looking for a fleet. How am i underestimating mission income? Last i checked 20-30 mill was what you got paid if you were really good at doing missions. If you think other people suck then why are you playing a MMO? Very confusing. Last time I did Assaults/HQ's with newbie-friendly fleets, I was barely breaking 30mil/hour. (Waiting for replacement just suckzzzz). On missions, I have constant 70mil/hour (if not more).. for that, I would need a good fleet, and all the stuff that comes along with it. No need, don't want, no - incursions have too much downtimes / randomjerks, and pro VG fleets are boring as hell.
S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District 14	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:48:00 - [7] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: S Byerley wrote: 1. Other people suck 2. Other people suck 3. Logistics 4. You're underestimating mission income 5. Commitment 6. Faction grinding 7. Missile skills Pick a few? Both strike me as unendurably boring personally. There are plenty of dedicated player made channels for incursions brimming with people looking for a fleet. How am i underestimating mission income? Last i checked 20-30 mill was what you got paid if you were really good at doing missions. If you think other people suck then why are you playing a MMO? Very confusing. I'm pretty sure the waiting+travel time for incursions is still nontrivial. My impression is that 40+ is more accurate for efficient misson running, but I'm not much a BS pilot so that's admittedly secondhand (best estimate google turns up is: http://eve-search.com/thread/210609-1#4). Emergent gameplay mostly; though I tend to view Eve as a neat simulation rather than a fun game. Ironically, early MMO experiences are largely responsible for the misanthrope I am today.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 251	Posted - 2013.06.19 13:02:00 - [8] - Quote You're overestimating Incursion income, there are many factors that cut into your Incursion income such as: 1. Getting into a fleet/waiting for enough players/not enough people online 2. Contesting sites with other fleets 3. Travelling to a system with an active Incursion Mission income on the other hand is very consistent as you'll basically always have a mission available to do and there's no delay, as soon as you turn in one mission you an accept another and missions will be a maximum of 2 jumps from your main system (not 100% sure about this but I rarely get missions more than 2 jumps).
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 88	Posted - 2013.06.19 13:04:00 - [9] - Quote S Byerley wrote: I'm pretty sure the waiting+travel time for incursions is still nontrivial. This. If you're only counting the actual running time of the fleet, and assuming no downtime for replacements, then sure, Incursions are hands-down better. You will sometimes get into a fleet immediately. You will also sometimes spend hours waiting. Waiting to get in the fleet, waiting for the fleet to get organized, waiting for replacements, etc. The last couple of times I was able to play, I sat in waiting lists for a few hours and never got in. Then last night I was fortunate enough to get a spot in a fleet just as it was forming. It was another hour and a half before it actually hit the first site. I've not actually done the math, but I'm pretty confident that spending all that time missioning would have been more profitable. Things may very well look different from inside the more exclusive shiny communities. Can't really speak to that myself.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band 712	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:18:00 - [10] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: If you can solo lvl4 missions it means you can fly a battleship. If you can fly a battleship, you can get into a newbie friendly incursion fleet and make far more money and lp than any lvl4. You only have to get into a HQ fleet for a couple of hours to buy a faction or pirate battleship and then its all down hill from there, so what is the point of running missions and barely make 20 mill an hour when you can make 4-5 times that amount in the same time with even less risk and effort? Because maybe not everyone that plays the game is focused on min/maxing isk/hr Personally I consider fun/hr the most important metric ... please value fun per hour in a meaningful way for me. that's not subjective that's not all about you that applies to multiple people with different attitudes, needs, wants and desires. good luck with the challenge.

Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 389	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:39:00 - [11] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: S Byerley wrote: 1. Other people suck 2. Other people suck 3. Logistics 4. You're underestimating mission income 5. Commitment 6. Faction grinding 7. Missile skills Pick a few? Both strike me as unendurably boring personally. There are plenty of dedicated player made channels for incursions brimming with people looking for a fleet. How am i underestimating mission income? Last i checked 20-30 mill was what you got paid if you were really good at doing missions. If you think other people suck then why are you playing a MMO? Very confusing. 20-30m per hour you're doing it horribly wrong. I get upwards of 40m PER MISSION and I'm in an average sentry domi setup with no bling except some fed navy omnis.
Traska Gannel ROC Academy The ROC 13	Posted - 2013.06.19 14:46:00 - [12] - Quote I want to second the comments above ... and add a couple. 1) If you are barely skilled enough to solo L4s then you will not be running in elite groups doing incursions sites so income is less than it could be. 2) Pure ISK income from missions will often go over 30 mil/hour and that does not include the loot/salvage or LP conversion which can often be 50% of the mission income. 3) Level 4 missions can be done solo ... no waiting for a fleet ... no jumping to a target system ... usually no downtime at all. MIssions are useful when you only have 20 minutes to an hour to play ... if you only have an hour and spend half of that getting an incursion fleet then it is just a waste of time for you and your fleet members to run an incursion. 4) Incursions have more risk than missions unless you know who you are playing with. In incursions your survival depends on the logistics being awake and paying attention. If someone falls asleep or their kids distract them at the wrong time ... wave goodbye to your shiny ship. In missions, it is your choice if this happens ... not someone else's. 5) Missions can often be done without paying much attention ... lack of attention usually means the mission takes longer. Not paying attention in incursions probably means you will get kicked from the fleet at some point ... :)
Deckard Vrell Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:17:00 - [13] - Quote TL:DR " I dont like something, therefore it sucks and anyone who does it is a moron" Is that basically what you meant ?
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 194	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:04:00 - [14] - Quote Yeah, raw ISK per block of time isn't the only metric for whether something's worth doing. Sometimes it's the LP rewards that don't come from the CONCORD stores - such as chips for converting battleships to navy variants - sometimes it's the salvage for rig-making, sometimes it's the ability to set your own schedule without having to spin your ship for two hours and burning your night away, sometimes it's just a decently-profitable change of pace. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Deckard Vrell Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:10:00 - [15] - Quote Marc Callan wrote: Yeah, raw ISK per block of time isn't the only metric for whether something's worth doing. Sometimes it's the LP rewards that don't come from the CONCORD stores - such as chips for converting battleships to navy variants - sometimes it's the salvage for rig-making, sometimes it's the ability to set your own schedule without having to spin your ship for two hours and burning your night away, sometimes it's just a decently-profitable change of pace. This ^ All of this
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 296	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:56:00 - [16] - Quote Because I can rip through a mission in 10-20 minutes?? Handy with kids about.
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1358	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:29:00 - [17] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: If you can solo lvl4 missions it means you can fly a battleship. If you can fly a battleship, you can get into a newbie friendly incursion fleet and make far more money and lp than any lvl4. You only have to get into a HQ fleet for a couple of hours to buy a faction or pirate battleship and then its all down hill from there, so what is the point of running missions and barely make 20 mill an hour when you can make 4-5 times that amount in the same time with even less risk and effort? You really didn't think this one out before posting it, didja? "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Lipbite Express Hauler 671	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:53:00 - [18] - Quote Spent two hours trying to get into incursion fleet in properly fitted ship - and failed. Could earn 40-50mil in L4s during that time (if only they were fun and dynamic - a-la skirmishes in Star Conflict).
Mara Villoso Big Box 98	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:27:00 - [19] - Quote Running incursions does nothing to reduce your refine tax, trading tax, or market order setup fees, and it also does nothing to get you jump clone standings or hisec POS anchoring rights. If you think of things only in terms of ISK/hr, you're going to be at the mercy of those who don't.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 263	Posted - 2013.06.19 19:39:00 - [20] - Quote incursions involve a lot of hurry up and wait. once that gets factored in missions are a better use of my time. You can trust me, I have a monocole

Darvaleth Sigma Progressive State State Section 9 309	Posted - 2013.06.19 21:03:00 - [21] - Quote Dato Koppla wrote: You're overestimating Incursion income, there are many factors that cut into your Incursion income such as: 1. Getting into a fleet/waiting for enough players/not enough people online 2. Contesting sites with other fleets 3. Travelling to a system with an active Incursion Mission income on the other hand is very consistent as you'll basically always have a mission available to do and there's no delay, as soon as you turn in one mission you an accept another and missions will be a maximum of 2 jumps from your main system (not 100% sure about this but I rarely get missions more than 2 jumps). This post strikes me as coming from somebody who hasn't done Incursions. I may be wrong, but your information certainly, from my perspective, seems to be. 1. In TVP, there are always enough people online, and if you have a decent fit ready to link into chat for fleet requests (ie: don't be that guy with Meta 1 cruises on a t1 raven) then you're not going to be waiting all that long at all. 2. In general, the communities try to keep agreements to avoid contesting. Occasionally this doesn't work, but either way it doesn't matter because there are always more sites available if you're bad at contesting. 3. You'll travel maybe 10 jumps, sometimes more, to be at the Incursion area for the next few days, at which point jumps are no issue until the Incursion ends. You then farm HQs for 31mil apiece and can easily run one of those every 20 minutes even with a noobfleet. If it starts getting shinier (ie: deadspace and faction mods on Machs, NMs, Vindis and Rattles) then this time gets shorter and shorter. Lots of people posting here don't seem to strike me as having actually done Incursions, as their arguments seem to rely on opinion rather than evidence. I have been involved with Incursions, and this is what I've learned from it. Give a man a match and you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Lilan Kahn The Littlest Hobos Whores in space 152	Posted - 2013.06.19 23:01:00 - [22] - Quote i think more people should run missions, they are much easier to kill than incursion runners.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 678	Posted - 2013.06.20 00:09:00 - [23] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: If you can solo lvl4 missions it means you can fly a battleship. If you can fly a battleship, you can get into a newbie friendly incursion fleet and make far more money and lp than any lvl4. You only have to get into a HQ fleet for a couple of hours to buy a faction or pirate battleship and then its all down hill from there, so what is the point of running missions and barely make 20 mill an hour when you can make 4-5 times that amount in the same time with even less risk and effort? I can make 3 times that (20 mil) an hour missioning easily, all day, with one account. You can make 4-5 times that much in an Incursion fleet, cant do it all day, cant do it every day, cant do it when YOU want. The mission LP are easy to convert instantly for 1k. You can convert Concord LP for a much higher Isk per LP conversion, but when you factor in the time it takes to sell (and build), its not much more Isk per hour. A "newbie friendly" incursion group DOES NOT make 100-120 million an hour. we're gonna make them eat our ship, then ship out our ship, and then eat their ship that's made up of our ship that we made 'em eat.
Hopelesshobo Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade 33	Posted - 2013.06.20 00:23:00 - [24] - Quote 1. You can solo L4s without multiboxing 2. There isn't always a highsec incursion, but there are always highsec agents 3. Sometimes you just don't feel like joining/making a fleet 4. Sometimes you want to be anti social 5. Generally FCs won't take you into an incursion fleet if you are wardecced 6. Can't get faction/corp standings in incursions 7. You don't have the time to wait to get in fleet/run for awhile 8. You just simply enjoy running missions sometimes Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Goldiiee Tax and War Haven 416	Posted - 2013.06.20 02:56:00 - [25] - Quote Starting in Incursions will not be as profitable as effectively running lvl 4 missions, but once you have learned the ropes and gotten into the right ship with the right group they are very profitable. But youGÇÖre right they donGÇÖt give standings to anything important or even relevant. But as far as profitable goes, it took me 2 months to learn the kill order so well I could do it in my sleep. Took another two months to finish maxing all the skills needed to fly a perfect Arty Mach. During that time I learned the names and times of people that were fun to fly with and good to have around. I now run Incursions when I want as an FC, I run for 3 to 5 hours when I have time and I make between 500 to 700 million not including LP. Additionally I sell ammo, Faction/Deadspace Invuls, occasionally Fed Webs and the odd bunch of nanite paste here and there. Total Net between 2 to 4 billion a week. But LVL 4GÇÖs and Epic arcs are still available to me and when we have a down time (No high sec Incursion) I switch my buffer tank for an active tank and go grind a few missions out, or grind some roams out. Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 162	Posted - 2013.06.20 03:21:00 - [26] - Quote If I didn't see 50 mil in an hour then it was an incredibly bad hour. You way underestimate L4 mission pay. Standings make it so I make more isk while trading. Locator agents! Because sucking at PvP is no fun. I can have help new players by allowing them to salvage behind me increasing their isk per hour while adding to mine. Incursion's are always over hyped. No one ever likes to figure in the time it takes to get groups together or replace people or the bad hours when competition is everywhere. Plus you get times where people pop the moms site and no incursions in high sec to be done. Perfect skills for a pirate faction BS with 5% implants in all slots and great gear equals more isk than being in a group that lets in new players that need to be baby sat and expect the same isk per hour as you when you bring 2x as much to the table.
Lugalzagezi666 208	Posted - 2013.06.20 06:20:00 - [27] - Quote Missions also require much less attention than incursions so you are pretty much free to do anything else while doing missions (even rl stuff like babysitting kids, pets, do bio breaks whenever you want, not when fc tells you, cook...).
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 163	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:14:00 - [28] - Quote Lugalzagezi666 wrote: Missions also require much less attention than incursions so you are pretty much free to do anything else while doing missions (even rl stuff like babysitting kids, pets, do bio breaks whenever you want, not when fc tells you, cook...). Or play the market for even more isk per hour!
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1221	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:53:00 - [29] - Quote Admiral Pieg wrote: There are plenty of dedicated player made channels for incursions brimming with people looking for a fleet. How am i underestimating mission income? Last i checked 20-30 mill was what you got paid if you were really good at doing missions. If you think other people suck then why are you playing a MMO? Very confusing. by 'good' you obviously mean terrible. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Kijimea Mulors 3	Posted - 2013.06.21 08:36:00 - [30] - Quote 20mil/hr? Joking? I am still pretty noobish. I fly lvl 4 with 700 dps 50km(500dps) legion (850dps "soon") and i get 50-70 mil/hr. I cant even imagine how it will look like in a few month with a well trained mach. And as ppl said you dont need other ppl and since i play alone and i dont like to adjust my timings to others, this is a very good and easy way to make isk. If you only get barely 20mil/hr as you said you are doing something very wrong dude.



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