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Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2005.11.20 19:54:00 -
[1]
pic 1
pic2
pic 3
Try and keep this Thread Clean please.
my only Concern is if CCP will make Huge FleetEncouters playable anytime soon.
first thing first, i live in London, i have a Cable internet connection 4MB, and fast system with Nvedio 6800gt 256 mmb
i did turn off my turrets and effect, lowered my graphic details to the lowest.
you would think this should be Real Fine
WRONG,
my STORY, Commander warped us to the enemy, he calls out Primary, i turn on my modules, now i have a targetting range of over 100km , target is clsoe enogh and big enogh for me to lock him, 2 minutes later i have lock, but just when the target warped out, in the same time i got lock on a cepto r that i can t remeber targetting, i turn on my guns anyways, PFF PFF, ????? not sure whats going on but nothing is coming out, ammo is loaded, plenty left in the cargo.
after 5 minutes, i decide to warp out and warp back in, since i wasn t locked at all thru out that time, i dont believe i was jammed at all.
2 minutes later iam still not able to warp out, iam not scrambled, for there isnt a ship enar me within 80km, 5 minutes later, i managed to warp out.
ok now iam trying to click around and u-turn, ship aint moving,
3 minutes later, ship start to move and warp to a different direction to were the fleet is fighting, and i end up next to a pos??????
not sure how did that happen.
i got scared at that point and i logged off my bs, pilot ALT>
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now 17000 players online didn't help either, but whats with that ramsam upgrade, all i know is that southern eve is having some real issues right now with lag.
SOLUTION???
i don't wanna get technical but, is there a possibility to concentrate Server priority on a busy 0.0 system somehow?
i really don't know that much on how eve server works, but CCP, needs to get this Sorted.
do we all agree?
t
www.eve-defence.com |
MacDuncan
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Posted - 2005.11.20 19:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MacDuncan on 20/11/2005 20:04:34
At least, you survived, Roxanna...i got podded and did not even see it...
And the worst:
I was not able to board and fitt another frig 4 jumps out in C9N (modules won't come online, already fitted ships were all offline), so i decided to hit "ESC" & Quit for tonight....very sad...  
edit:
Nice Pic2...
But that was after locking him for app. 1min. and orbiting him for another minute....after taht the modules respond and activate one after another.
And after that all came worst and my ship was not responding anymore to any command, getting dmg from some CM's and stucked with 1/2 struct. Entered cloning after relog and nothing else worked...
--
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Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:00:00 -
[3]
sory about the typo.
after i loged, iam still waiting to log back in its been 10 minutes now,
www.eve-defence.com |
Duke Yaker
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:05:00 -
[4]
gadamn.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:11:00 -
[5]
the ramsam eliminated database related lag, i.e. assets, market, show info, etc.
The 64bit server port + the new blade servers are designed for general purpose lag. The problem is the servers run out of memory far too quick as each CPU can only access 2gb (or 4gb with some jiggery pokery). with the 64bit servers, it can access 2^64 bytes, which would just about cover my **** collection
 Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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Megadon
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:13:00 -
[6]
300 ppl in local in battle = major lag
always has, always will
so there is no mystery and i'm not sure that anything could/can be done about it. the game just can't handle that kind of load period. especially with 15k other players online. not sure what the answer is
at some point, ppl are going to get smart and not allow gangs over 50 i would think
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blahblah21
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:18:00 -
[7]
it has never been this bad before patches.
keep up the good work ccp. 300 people in jita and you cant have pvp fun in 0.0 with 30 ships
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:19:00 -
[8]
atleast you were able to see your enemy 
Northern Nodes ftl
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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gr8razorx
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: gr8razorx on 20/11/2005 20:21:25
CCP does not care. They have already stated this by not statin anything on any of the lag posts
This game is beginning to become unplayable anywhere in the eve usniverse :)
GO CCP
My Stats |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:25:00 -
[10]
What Gr8 said.
There's maybe 1k people trying to PvP in 0.0 and the other 16k are in empire whoring their missions. We're screwed, but who cares, CCP sure doesnt.
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Mrs Meikel
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mrs Meikel on 20/11/2005 20:39:41
the eve team have a fleet of servers, each of which runs a certain number of systems. For Jita a whole server (or a very good portion of one) is used, whilst another server might run 10 or so "un-busy" systems.
The Devs can move systems about, but this can only be done during downtime - so when a usually empty system fills up with ships it starts to lag, as that server is also trying to run other systems.
They either have to figure out an efficant way to pickle/unpickle systems and load-balance onthefly, or... designate certain systems for fleet battles ( )
not wanting to sound rude - but some of you are very ignorant of the facts!
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:37:00 -
[12]
Thank you CCP for totally ignoring the people who paid for this game for so long.
To all new guys wodnering "wow cool game cant wait to see large fleet battles with hundreds of ships" - well that wont happen because the lag is such you cant even see your enemies and somehow your dead, and everyday it seems to only get worse.
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
HostageTaker
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:43:00 -
[13]
LMAO
When I logged on today and saw that empire size blob, I knew exactly what was in store for those involved down there...
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Grml Z
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grml Z on 20/11/2005 20:52:54
Hm,what do you excpect?
Everybody knew that this fight will lag like hell,if you are not able to deal with that,dont fight fleet battles.
~300 people in local, ~200 ships in same grid shooting each other,drones usw.
Show me a MMORPG were you are able to fight such battles without lag.
I am sure CCP is trying to improve the prefomence,but they are just devs,not Gods.
_____________
I am still a NoOb,and i am proud to be one! :P
_____________
i cant speak english^^ |
AdamC
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Posted - 2005.11.20 20:57:00 -
[15]
Its a problem to sort out lag like this. It happends in most mmo's. TBH theres not alot you can do about it
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Antoinette Civari
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AdamC
Its a problem to sort out lag like this. It happends in most mmo's. TBH theres not alot you can do about it
fleetbattles of such size worked about 1 year ago.
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Parp
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:04:00 -
[17]
there is no reason for the lag that was experienced tonight to be acceptable. If it is then we may as well quit playing as ccp is pushing the 0.0 battle situation onwards.
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Skelum
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:04:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Skelum on 20/11/2005 21:04:57
Edited by: Skelum on 20/11/2005 21:04:06
Cant't CCP buy more hamsters or do some Research into bigger stronger, more efficient animals to power the game.
Maybe rabbits?
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: gr8razorx
Edited by: gr8razorx on 20/11/2005 20:21:25
CCP does not care. They have already stated this by not statin anything on any of the lag posts
This game is beginning to become unplayable anywhere in the eve usniverse :)
GO CCP
Sorry but that's idiotic, they do care, this game is a labour of love for them... hence why the new hardware is en-route, hence why the new fleet battle optimizations are in the pipeline.
If they spent all their time answering every forum post nothing would get done...
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sarmaul
the ramsam eliminated database related lag, i.e. assets, market, show info, etc.
The 64bit server port + the new blade servers are designed for general purpose lag. The problem is the servers run out of memory far too quick as each CPU can only access 2gb (or 4gb with some jiggery pokery). with the 64bit servers, it can access 2^64 bytes, which would just about cover my **** collection
Theoretically 2^64 but for practical purpose now until sometime in the future, most probably 2^34 bytes.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
babyblack
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Antoinette Civari
Originally by: AdamC
Its a problem to sort out lag like this. It happends in most mmo's. TBH theres not alot you can do about it
fleetbattles of such size worked about 1 year ago.
yeah, dont know what they done but it aint good. But ofc "content" is blinging for new players
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Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:39:00 -
[22]
CCP need to sort this bull**** fuking lag out, around 4 os us jumping at same time into an empty system, ******* 5mins + to ******* load, and even then the FPS is low. Its pathetic, if a gang of 4 can't even play without lag, i don't want to know what 300 blob would be like tonight.
In short, CCP do something about this or your gonna have ALOT of angry customers  
--------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
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Xenophilia
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:41:00 -
[23]
A battle of 60 Vs 20 plus a POS was sufficient to make gameplay completely worthless tonight.
10M Isk worth of clones down in minutes as warping out becomes an impossibility. Nice.
I joined the game for fleet battles. When will they be added to gameplay?
Or are CCP just going to keep accepting money until they develop a reputation on the scale of Blizzard's?
Sorry, but I don't consider 80 people "massive".
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Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2005.11.20 21:46:00 -
[24]
SO OK.
i hear there is gonna be a Processor Upgrade,
WHEN?
www.eve-defence.com |
Skelum
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Posted - 2005.11.20 22:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xenophilia
A battle of 60 Vs 20 plus a POS was sufficient to make gameplay completely worthless tonight.
10M Isk worth of clones down in minutes as warping out becomes an impossibility. Nice.
I joined the game for fleet battles. When will they be added to gameplay?
Or are CCP just going to keep accepting money until they develop a reputation on the scale of Blizzard's?
Sorry, but I don't consider 80 people "massive".
Whats blizzards reputation?
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var'ulfur
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Posted - 2005.11.20 22:46:00 -
[26]
this is not a new problum time and time agin after each major battle we get the same posts. 200 ships in one system lag is always going to happen.
ive played more online games than i can even remember and its always the same (LAG) thier is no fix 17000 players each with a diff isp, computer set up and it gose on and on. do you turn your sound off set you grafics to preformance many things to help.
but in the end lag is and will always be an issue when large numbers of people gather in one place. deal with it or quit with numbers of over 17k players online you wont be missed but the whining has to stop and you say care bears are bad
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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StOrM ViPeR
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Posted - 2005.11.20 22:49:00 -
[27]
Dissallow drones during blobwars ?
Serious think about it. Your in a blob engagment you go to launch drones and you get the message " Unable to launch drones due magnitude of potential targets."
It would certainly ease the matters a bit. |
BuRnEr
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Posted - 2005.11.20 23:07:00 -
[28]
Last year = 8-10k online
Now = 17
take a wild guess were the resources whent.
We're also going for new YARRDWARE. We're investigating how much we add, what type (AMD? INTEL? 64 BIT! Dual Core?) or if we should simply replace all the damn hardware.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.11.20 23:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Antoinette Civari
Originally by: AdamC
Its a problem to sort out lag like this. It happends in most mmo's. TBH theres not alot you can do about it
fleetbattles of such size worked about 1 year ago.
the problem was a year ago there weren't 17.5k people online hogging the resources :(.
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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ASCN Forever
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Posted - 2005.11.21 00:33:00 -
[30]
Commander calls go to gate we wait; hostiles enter ....lag lag lag. Our frigates look in wonder as enemy BSs get away from the ceptor attack force. lag lag.........we are recalled. Wash and repeat....not a fun day.
Fun concept..but poor game mechanics when 200 people are in system. IF you can not fix that then LIMIT a NOD to what you can handle, force the system work as designed rather than worry about achieving the most numbers of people on line.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.11.21 00:50:00 -
[31]
The lag isn't only horrible when there are 300 in a system.
It's also unplayable 50 vs 50.
The naysayers must realize that, in this case, ASCN is fighting for it's survival, so it's utterly pointless asking them to field only 40 ships.
That's how the game is designed, when you have the numbers, you use them.
And of course the oppononents have to field at least 50% of what the enemy does, preferably equal numbers, hence the lag.
Players are losing faith in the game at the moment, many only log in because they have to defend their space otherwise they'd simply move to something else to avoid wasting their playtime.
And if you think the drone overhaul will fix anything, it won't.
It might help for the smaller engagements, but won't for larger ones, which are the most interesting because they have the most meaning in terms of territory control.
Unfortunately, the new hardware isn't coming soon since CCP hasn't ported all the code to 64bit yet and it will still require many optimizations.
I hope CCP can do it in time to avoid too many players moving to other games.
And yes, 'other games' might 'suck' but battles in Dark Ages of Crapelot have a fluidity and enjoyement EVE simply cannot match at the moment.
There absolutely no doubt CCP is strongly commited to their game though, and will do everything they can to solve the issue.
It's urgent.
____________________________________
Let's make the MK2 Moa a ship worth flying. |
Azaeren
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Posted - 2005.11.21 04:03:00 -
[32]
blame the carebears in empire having all the nodes dedicated to them directly. you know, because they whine to get any combat that doesnt involve mission humping nerfed. |
Erges
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Posted - 2005.11.21 04:14:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Erges on 21/11/2005 04:14:45
yes and its seems to be happening recently. i almost never lag in fleet battles and i have been in some pretty big battles. ya there is lag but not like this.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.11.21 04:23:00 -
[34]
Up north we can't even have medium sized fleet battles... The lag is horrendous
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.11.21 04:28:00 -
[35]
The fleet battle lag is most severe when one fleet jumps into a system with enemy fleet on opposide side of the gate.
There's a really simple solution to this - when large fleets are involved, jump incoming fleet into ss near the gate. This is a "wrong" solution of game logic point of view, but it would greatly help against even bigger wrong caused by the lag.
Seems like devs won't go for this out of principle tho. "let them get massacred due to lag, at least we stand firm by our principles!" heh
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Tekka
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Posted - 2005.11.21 06:50:00 -
[36]
They are adding new blade server which should fix it
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
I am the coolness of the century.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.11.21 07:49:00 -
[37]
We ll it was alwys like this.The best i have seen was around 50-50 battle wich was playable.Lag was horrific but you could with some experience fight.( turning modules ~10 seconds).
But i have faith in Eve.Imho Devs dont comment because what can they say?
RMR should help.Drone changes should help.64 bit cpu should help a lot.Elimintaion of bms should help.
I hope after these 3 changes we can fight up to
100 -100 ships.
I got high hope sfo rthis.CCP imho ia and alwys has been working hard.
*****************************
A solution to gank/to much dmg.Plz read and reply.Make Eve more tactical!!
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Shirei
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Posted - 2005.11.21 07:56:00 -
[38]
Well yeah, the lag was pretty bad yesterday..
But considering the circumstances (200-250 people involved in the actual fight), it was actually quite acceptable. There was no massive amount of disconnects (although a few people did get disconnected) and virtually everyone loaded the screen and could see what was happening. Just module lag was really atrocious for the majority of people, but with a fleet of that size, that is hardly surprising.
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Deidranna
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Posted - 2005.11.21 08:50:00 -
[39]
for the size of the battle, the lag was "ok"
the battle a few days earlier, with 100ppl shooting each other and g was blamed to lagzorhaxor the servers   was a pain.
d
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.11.21 08:59:00 -
[40]
Scotty we need more power on the northern Nodes!
Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.11.21 10:59:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Matthew on 21/11/2005 10:59:52
Originally by: blahblah21
300 people in jita and you cant have pvp fun in 0.0 with 30 ships
Welcome to the main load problem with fleet battles.
In somewhere like Jita, generally there are few players in the same place at once - most of them are either docked, or on their own in a mission. With 1 player in the grid, the server only has to work out the interactions for that one player, and relay them to 1 player. Therefore, 300 players all doing that would have a load factor of 300.
30 people in the same grid requires the server to consider everyone interacting with everyone else, and notify everyone about what everyone else is doing. So that's 30 players each being notified of what 30 players (that includes themselves) are doing. To compare with the jita case, that's a load factor of 30*30 = 900. A 150-man blob would have a load factor of 22500.
It's this O(x^2) problem that is the main reason why fleet battles lag, but places like Jita don't. It's also why there is no easy solution to it. The act of blobbing up is often more important to the level of load than the number of players.
Originally by: gr8razorx
CCP does not care. They have already stated this by not statin anything on any of the lag posts
That's right, CCP don't care. They're not overhauling the turrets and effects system to reduce client lag. They're not overhauling manufacturing to reduce the significant background load it imposes (which will directly increase the processing power avaliable to a local fleet battle). They're not overhauling drones and NPC's to reduce the load those impose. They're not implementing significant recodes specifically to improve fleet battle performance. And of course there wasn't an entire presentation at the fanfest dedicated to how they are working to reduce fleet lag.
Originally by: Skelum
Cant't CCP buy more hamsters or do some Research into bigger stronger, more efficient animals to power the game.
They are, but these things cannot be done overnight. They are working on it, but this sort of thing needs significant recodes to make any appreciable impact.
Originally by: Hellraiza666
CCP need to sort this bull**** fuking lag out, around 4 os us jumping at same time into an empty system, ******* 5mins + to ******* load, and even then the FPS is low. Its pathetic, if a gang of 4 can't even play without lag, i don't want to know what 300 blob would be like tonight.
Sounds like you were on the same node as a blob. Load issues are not as simple as the number of people in local. There are approx 110 nodes, of which around 10 are likely to be dedicated to high-load systems. That leaves 100 nodes to service around 5000 systems, for an average of 50 systems per node. So if there's a fleet battle going on in 1 system, then around 49 other systems are going to experience the same level of lag, regardless of what is going on in them.
Originally by: Hellraiza666
In short, CCP do something about this or your gonna have ALOT of angry customers
Contrary to popular forum belief, the Devs do not have a Wand of Fixing that can magically make problems go away, and it is not powered by the number of unhappy posts made on the forums.
Originally by: Xenophilia
Sorry, but I don't consider 80 people "massive".
In the context of online gaming, 80 people in the same place is massive.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Azaeren
blame the carebears in empire having all the nodes dedicated to them directly. you know, because they whine to get any combat that doesnt involve mission humping nerfed.
The only nodes that are dedicated to single systems are those where they system has a consistently high load, and it would actually be less efficient to leave it floating. 110 nodes, 17k players = 154 average players per node. So even with an entire node dedicated to it, places like Jita have way below normal levels of node share per player.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:06:00 -
[43]
mattew makes some very good poitns and gets to the core of the problem ie 30x30 = 900 100x100= 10000 1 on a grid - 1.
So where as one player doing a mission = 1 on grid
100 versus 100 fleet battle requires 10000 times as much data and CPU processing to cope. Of course push that to 300x300 and u have 90000 individual data updates happening.
CCP are working on it give them 6 months and things should start to improve. Being able to devote more than 1 node to a solar system could help. Cross node support for 1 solar system when numbers spike (even being abel to boost quite a few CPUs to one grid would help as well)
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Rcat5
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mrs Meikel
Edited by: Mrs Meikel on 20/11/2005 20:39:41
the eve team have a fleet of servers, each of which runs a certain number of systems. For Jita a whole server (or a very good portion of one) is used, whilst another server might run 10 or so "un-busy" systems.
The Devs can move systems about, but this can only be done during downtime - so when a usually empty system fills up with ships it starts to lag, as that server is also trying to run other systems.
They either have to figure out an efficant way to pickle/unpickle systems and load-balance onthefly, or... designate certain systems for fleet battles ()
not wanting to sound rude - but some of you are very ignorant of the facts!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As stated server resources are realocated during downtime. The best thing for you to actually do for a fleet battle would be to notify CCP a day or more ahead of time so they could make sure the chosen system can handle it.
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Asestorian
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rcat5
As stated server resources are realocated during downtime. The best thing for you to actually do for a fleet battle would be to notify CCP a day or more ahead of time so they could make sure the chosen system can handle it.
Thats all very well, but its not exactly practical..
Its not like 2 alliances contact each other and have a convo like this:
Quote:
Person 1: Ok, so we are gonna get up a blob and set up a POS in your space in XXX system.
Person 2: Hmm.. ok, we will get a blob to stop you, how many you thinking of taking?
Person 1: Oh.. I dunno, 150?
Person 2: Sounds good.
Person 1: Ok, you wanna contact CCP?
Person 2: Yeah ok.. when you want this?
Person 1: Erm.. Sunday sounds good.
Person 2: kk. Will contact CCP now, see you sunday!
Person 1: K, bye.
We should all know by now that CCP coders and the other people that do this sort of thing (and don't bring in the crap about "ohnoes but they make new stuff but dont fix lag!" because they are 2 seperate things)
There are also the new server YARRDWARE coming, or at least being decided on. So until then we just have to do our best really.
Originally by: Noriath
Duct tape is like the force, it has a dark side, a light side, and it holds the universe together...
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Oninous
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:33:00 -
[46]
One thing to consider is this. Alliance (a) jumps in a fleet of a 100 ships into your home space. Since they are hostile and killing everything in sight the home fleet of Alliance (b) either has to equal their fleet in power (100 ships) or log out so (a) doesn't get lagged out (as well as random empire systems going belly-up). So... it seems that, typically, Alliances (a) and (b) will lag each other out just to defend their space but this is also causing the game to be completely unplayable at certain points. *Cough* H-PA *Cough* Obe Guristas Event *Cough*. Until a band-aid solution is thought up (such as limiting engagement sizes in some way). Players will lose interest due to other players using the tools they were given to enjoy the game they are paying for. I did see 2 people cancel their accounts today in empire. But that was only one system.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: sonofollo
CCP are working on it give them 6 months and things should start to improve.
Might not even have to wait that long, there looks to be quite a bit coming through with RMR.
Originally by: sonofollo
Being able to devote more than 1 node to a solar system could help. Cross node support for 1 solar system when numbers spike (even being abel to boost quite a few CPUs to one grid would help as well)
Oveur's dev-blog explained why this was not really a desirable solution. Allowing grids to be on different CPU's would mean that every warp became a session-change, just like a jump or a dock, as would free-flight across grid boundaries. All forms of long-range scanning would increase in load hugely as it would require lots of cross-session comms. And of course, fleet battles generally involve everyone cramming into one grid anyway, so it wouldn't help there.
More than 1 CPU per grid just isn't going to happen. The amount of comms required between the CPUs to keep everything working and in-sync would be a nightmare to handle. Not to mention it would require fundamental changes to the server code.
Then there's the issue of actually deploying the processing power where it's needed. Solar systems cannot be shuffled around the nodes as and when desired. Moving active real-time processes like that around is a horrible thing to try and do. Normal practices like pickling just don't cut it - they'd all result in either dropping everyone in-system, or putting them into a "jumping" state while everything got shifted to the new node (with no guarantee that process would be quick).
The real problem with load-balancing 0.0 fleet battles is that the load they cause isn't consistent or easily predictable. With the empire hubs, you know they're always going to have high load, so it's easy to justify dedicating a node to them. The same can't be said for 0.0 fleet battle sites. Most of the time they're near-deserted, they're only full for a few hours, then who's to say there'll ever be a battle there again? Sure, the outpost systems are obvious recurring targets, but a lot of battles happen wherever the 2 blobs happen to meet on the pipe.
They can't go dedicating nodes to every 0.0 system that might have some reason to host a fleet battle at some point in the future. There simply aren't enough nodes. Designating certain systems as dedicated "battleground" nodes wouldn't really help either - you'd still have to get the fleet through normal systems to that node, and the entraces to the battlegrounds would no doubt be heavily camped.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2005.11.21 11:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: gfldex on 21/11/2005 12:00:59
Edited by: gfldex on 21/11/2005 11:59:16
Originally by: Grml Z
Show me a MMORPG were you are able to fight such battles without lag.
eve-online like 6 months befor.
CCP adds more toys for us so memory footprint of any single object goes up. At some point the box start to swap and it's all over. Maybe wintel is not the best platform to build server applications on.
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$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Rcat5
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Posted - 2005.11.21 12:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Rcat5
As stated server resources are realocated during downtime. The best thing for you to actually do for a fleet battle would be to notify CCP a day or more ahead of time so they could make sure the chosen system can handle it.
Thats all very well, but its not exactly practical..
Its not like 2 alliances contact each other and have a convo like this:
I never said it was ideal, or desierable, or paractical. However the simple fact is that if you want to have a fleet batlte without lag that's the ony way to do it.
Heck, you don't even really have to agree on it! Just tell CCP that you plan to attack the other corp / alliance on that day and go from there.
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Rcat5
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Posted - 2005.11.21 12:15:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Rcat5 on 21/11/2005 12:16:21
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: sonofollo
CCP are working on it give them 6 months and things should start to improve.
Might not even have to wait that long, there looks to be quite a bit coming through with RMR.
Originally by: sonofollo
Being able to devote more than 1 node to a solar system could help. Cross node support for 1 solar system when numbers spike (even being abel to boost quite a few CPUs to one grid would help as well)
Oveur's dev-blog explained why this was not really a desirable solution. Allowing grids to be on different CPU's would mean that every warp became a session-change, just like a jump or a dock, as would free-flight across grid boundaries. All forms of long-range scanning would increase in load hugely as it would require lots of cross-session comms. And of course, fleet battles generally involve everyone cramming into one grid anyway, so it wouldn't help there.
More than 1 CPU per grid just isn't going to happen. The amount of comms required between the CPUs to keep everything working and in-sync would be a nightmare to handle. Not to mention it would require fundamental changes to the server code.
Then there's the issue of actually deploying the processing power where it's needed. Solar systems cannot be shuffled around the nodes as and when desired. Moving active real-time processes like that around is a horrible thing to try and do. Normal practices like pickling just don't cut it - they'd all result in either dropping everyone in-system, or putting them into a "jumping" state while everything got shifted to the new node (with no guarantee that process would be quick).
The real problem with load-balancing 0.0 fleet battles is that the load they cause isn't consistent or easily predictable. With the empire hubs, you know they're always going to have high load, so it's easy to justify dedicating a node to them. The same can't be said for 0.0 fleet battle sites. Most of the time they're near-deserted, they're only full for a few hours, then who's to say there'll ever be a battle there again? Sure, the outpost systems are obvious recurring targets, but a lot of battles happen wherever the 2 blobs happen to meet on the pipe.
They can't go dedicating nodes to every 0.0 system that might have some reason to host a fleet battle at some point in the future. There simply aren't enough nodes. Designating certain systems as dedicated "battleground" nodes wouldn't really help either - you'd still have to get the fleet through normal systems to that node, and the entraces to the battlegrounds would no doubt be heavily camped.
There's no way the current one system per CPU scheme can continue to last. If CCP wants the game to keep growing like it is there going to have to figure out something different. Whether it means breaking up the system threads more, mirroring the threads or breaking up the systems something has to be done. Eve is a very complex game and there's lots of chalanges but i fully belive that more then one CPU per system is posible. Other MMOs have non geographically distributed, non zoned worlds, Eve can too.
And as for on the fly load ballancing i see no reason other unpopulated systems on the same node can't be moved to other CPUs. The highly populated system dosn't have to be moved to it's own server, lower or non populated systems can be moved off to free up resources.
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BobCba
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Posted - 2005.11.21 13:07:00 -
[51]
maybe a solution like WoWs instances could be worked into the game for battles? I'm sure CCP have already looked at that option.
I think newer hardware will improve the situation, but people will just push that to the limit. Hopefully theyll keep all this in mind for EVE 2. |
Corvus Anderran
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Posted - 2005.11.21 13:35:00 -
[52]
It's interesting that there are now both threads complaining that there is huge lag in battles and CCP is doing nothing about it, yet at the exact same time there are other threads where people are complaining that they will only be able to launch 5 drones at once.
There's a full Dev Blog which describes the whole lag problem in detail and some of things CCP have planned to try and address it.
But no, CCP clearly don't care at all about the lag, deny all knowledge of it and have no plans to do anything about it. Yeah.
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Lidza
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Posted - 2005.11.21 13:37:00 -
[53]
LAG has always been the black note on CCP/EVE.
For years that its has been an outstanding issue.
By pure luck that you have not crashed CCP server! Like it happen 1 year ago, when 200 pvpers were enough to crash the server around 5PM certain Sunday in September. When FA siege a station in Delve and the battle followed by a server crash.
(factual joke aside)
Beside, I'm very skeptical that LAG would ever been solved by CCP.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.11.21 20:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Matthew
Edited by: Matthew on 21/11/2005 10:59:52
Originally by: blahblah21
300 people in jita and you cant have pvp fun in 0.0 with 30 ships
Welcome to the main load problem with fleet battles.
In somewhere like Jita, generally there are few players in the same place at once - most of them are either docked, or on their own in a mission. With 1 player in the grid, the server only has to work out the interactions for that one player, and relay them to 1 player. Therefore, 300 players all doing that would have a load factor of 300.
30 people in the same grid requires the server to consider everyone interacting with everyone else, and notify everyone about what everyone else is doing. So that's 30 players each being notified of what 30 players (that includes themselves) are doing. To compare with the jita case, that's a load factor of 30*30 = 900. A 150-man blob would have a load factor of 22500.
It's this O(x^2) problem that is the main reason why fleet battles lag, but places like Jita don't. It's also why there is no easy solution to it. The act of blobbing up is often more important to the level of load than the number of players.
Originally by: gr8razorx
CCP does not care. They have already stated this by not statin anything on any of the lag posts
That's right, CCP don't care. They're not overhauling the turrets and effects system to reduce client lag. They're not overhauling manufacturing to reduce the significant background load it imposes (which will directly increase the processing power avaliable to a local fleet battle). They're not overhauling drones and NPC's to reduce the load those impose. They're not implementing significant recodes specifically to improve fleet battle performance. And of course there wasn't an entire presentation at the fanfest dedicated to how they are working to reduce fleet lag.
Originally by: Skelum
Cant't CCP buy more hamsters or do some Research into bigger stronger, more efficient animals to power the game.
They are, but these things cannot be done overnight. They are working on it, but this sort of thing needs significant recodes to make any appreciable impact.
Originally by: Hellraiza666
CCP need to sort this bull**** fuking lag out, around 4 os us jumping at same time into an empty system, ******* 5mins + to ******* load, and even then the FPS is low. Its pathetic, if a gang of 4 can't even play without lag, i don't want to know what 300 blob would be like tonight.
Sounds like you were on the same node as a blob. Load issues are not as simple as the number of people in local. There are approx 110 nodes, of which around 10 are likely to be dedicated to high-load systems. That leaves 100 nodes to service around 5000 systems, for an average of 50 systems per node. So if there's a fleet battle going on in 1 system, then around 49 other systems are going to experience the same level of lag, regardless of what is going on in them.
Originally by: Hellraiza666
In short, CCP do something about this or your gonna have ALOT of angry customers
Contrary to popular forum belief, the Devs do not have a Wand of Fixing that can magically make problems go away, and it is not powered by the number of unhappy posts made on the forums.
Originally by: Xenophilia
Sorry, but I don't consider 80 people "massive".
In the context of online gaming, 80 people in the same place is massive.
tottaly agree.
I beleive CCP will improve things in some more time.They have plenty of plans, they are saying about this, why nobody reads?
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A solution to gank/to much dmg.Plz read and reply.Make Eve more tactical!!
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.21 20:51:00 -
[55]
good points ppl get annoyed because lag isnt being fixed NOW - sure has CCP has long term plans but it doesnt affect ppls playing NOW they still dont realise that they generaly affect even unrelated lag issues by not moving around - we need more player movement to spread the server node resources around.
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Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2005.11.22 01:51:00 -
[56]
you know what sux.
is that marketing of EVE, is missleading at this point in time.
id idnt say on my box that there is a player limit ;-)
www.eve-defence.com |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.11.22 02:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sarmaul
with the 64bit servers, it can access 2^64 bytes, which would just about cover my **** collection
Bzzzt. Don't believe marketing buzz. If they are using AMD CPU's they will only have 2^48 words of address spce. The 64bit refers to the size of the standard word in that arch. There are not many 64bit CPU's that actually have 64bit addresses.
And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.11.22 02:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Antoinette Civari
fleetbattles of such size worked about 1 year ago.
Back when you had maybe half as many people online and battles taking place on more resourced nodes?
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Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage. |
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