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Whitehound
1471
   |
Posted - 2013.06.25 15:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away.
Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
895
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 15:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away. Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle.
Guristas are meanies 
In a single group of 5 or 6 rats you can have 4 of them with jamming ability (duno in high sec now) and several jamming you at the same time, even my Tengu in some unrated sites (with sensor well over 35) gets jam for enough time you can't kill a simple frigate for a couple minutes which is ridiculous, doesn't happen all the time but still.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Whitehound
1471
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 15:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away. Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle. Guristas are meanies In a single group of 5 or 6 rats you can have 4 of them with jamming ability (duno in high sec now) and several jamming you at the same time, even my Tengu in some unrated sites (with sensor well over 35) gets jam for enough time you can't kill a simple frigate for a couple minutes which is ridiculous, doesn't happen all the time but still.
Seriously, sebos do not help against ECM! (I am assuming it was a typo, because I know you are not dumb.)
Anyhow, look at the bright side. Guristas deal almost exclusively kinetic damage with missiles and fly slowly, which makes them very easy to tank. I find sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors a lot more difficult. Once you run into a group of those can you be in bigger trouble.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1364
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 16:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:According to pro's tiers that sustained me over the ship re balance threads...it is TFI.....
Who is "pro", and what's his "tiers"?? I don't understand...
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
510
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 16:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away. Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle.
SNI start with a sensor strenght of 30. Adding an ECCM will put it just shy of 60 and you still get some jams.
Golem start with a sensor strenght of 14. An ECCM will put that just shy of 28. It's an improvement but still jam prone. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
249
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 20:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm a long-time L4 runner, and have tried a number of different ships with good effect: L4 Raven, pulse geddon, blaster Astarte (slow missions, but fun!), etc. My current favorite is the MJD/AB/sentry Dominix, with tracking links, drone link augmentors and drone damage amps. The DPS isn't record breaking - about 700 with Garde II, or 520 with Warden II - but it applies it evenly from about 15km to 129km (about 90km with the Gardes). Most missions are done in well under 10 minutes, with no damage taken at all.
Bio and writing |
Cage Man
237
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 01:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:SaurianX wrote:Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.
1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.
It's pretty damn fast. The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.
Paper dps means nothing in the game. I have used both and can say the mach will complete the mssions faster for the simple reason that it can insta pop frigs and cruisers on approach. No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. You can rigor fit and TP fit all you want inf you favorite fit tool, there is no way its going to practically work better. 4 grouped 800mm ac will insta pop a frig from 15km to 60km and will be ready for its next victim in 3 ish seconds. A bit slower against kinetic weak rates.. but still.
PS.. it also has a faster lock time than the other ships. Only time I don't use my mach is in amarr space as the NM is better there.
I have yet to try the TFI, but suspect it will do really well, probably better than the Navy raven purely because it can insta smaller stuff on approach with 5 x T2 sentries.
Null anoms, use a sentry carrier, will apply damage better than a Thany, even though EFT says it has more dps...
The thick plottens... |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3752
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 08:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Whitehound wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away. Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle. SNI start with a sensor strenght of 30. Adding an ECCM will put it just shy of 60 and you still get some jams. Golem start with a sensor strenght of 14. An ECCM will put that just shy of 28. It's an improvement but still jam prone.
This doesn't quite feel right to me. I'll freely admit that I learned all the jamming rats and shot them ASAP, but in my experience with a pre-boost Vargur:
- No ECCM (11): Aaaaalllllllllll the jams. Fuuuck.
- 1 ECCM (21.6): Jamming is a minimal hassle.
- 2 ECCM (39.5): Jammed once in a blue moon.
The new situation:
- No ECCM: 13.2
--- Minimal Hassle Line ---
- Jackals: 23.2
- 1 ECCM: 25.9
--- Almost Never Jammed Line ---
- Jackals, 1 ECCM: 45.4
- 2 ECCM: 47.5
- Jackals, 2 ECCM: 83.4
I think one of the silliest things in the world is to optimize half your offense away to avoid getting a 20 second jam every 25th mission. I'd probably roll with an ECCM implant set and 1 ECCM on a Marauder if I lived and fought Guristas/Caldari all the time. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it too much.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 10:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this.
Confirming that you've never used the new CNR |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
183
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 10:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.
In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.
tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.
Except that any serious mission runner will either drag a Noctis along behind them on an alt account, or sub-contract their wrecks to Pro Synergy.
The TFI does more paper DPS by about 250 over an RNI. Less applied DPS though, so I suspect the RNI would come out on top. I can't fly the Golem and suspect there'd be little actual difference between the ships now.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
183
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 10:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:Cage Man wrote:No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. Confirming that you've never used the new CNR
Has he used the new RNI?
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
183
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 10:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:
Paper dps means nothing in the game. I have used both and can say the mach will complete the mssions faster for the simple reason that it can insta pop frigs and cruisers on approach. No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. You can rigor fit and TP fit all you want inf you favorite fit tool, there is no way its going to practically work better. 4 grouped 800mm ac will insta pop a frig from 15km to 60km and will be ready for its next victim in 3 ish seconds. A bit slower against kinetic weak rates.. but still.
PS.. it also has a faster lock time than the other ships. Only time I don't use my mach is in amarr space as the NM is better there.
I have yet to try the TFI, but suspect it will do really well, probably better than the Navy raven purely because it can insta smaller stuff on approach with 5 x T2 sentries.
Null anoms, use a sentry carrier, will apply damage better than a Thany, even though EFT says it has more dps...
Funnily enough I was talking about actual DPS not paper DPS.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Rogue Lawyer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 11:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
I am shocked at the fact that everyone seems to have ignored the Rattlesnake altogether, it is a fantastic ship, I active tank mine and i can squeeze out 1158 dps with sentries and cruise missiles. One can also use Wardens to pop things from afar. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
183
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 12:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rogue Lawyer wrote:I am shocked at the fact that everyone seems to have ignored the Rattlesnake altogether, it is a fantastic ship, I active tank mine and i can squeeze out 1158 dps with sentries and cruise missiles. One can also use Wardens to pop things from afar.
Sentry Drones, while great, are not as great as either CMs post-patch, or Projectiles. I do enjoy using my RS when joining friends for Lvl 4s, but if I'm solo I will always take my RNI or SNI ahead of my RS.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Whitehound
1479
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 13:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Sentry Drones, while great, are not as great as either CMs post-patch, or Projectiles.
Each PvE content is different and each is designed to test different abilities. Because one can change ship fittings to match the content (including the ship itself) would a "King of PvE" be the one ship that handles them all equally well and ideally requires no changes.
The new Dominix with with MJD+AB(or MWD) needs practically no tank, towers over all NPCs from a 100km distance and deals 800+ DPS over the entire range with extreme tracking. It is also very close to mining asteroids in nature and about as fun.
This is pretty much what I expect a "King of PvE" would be like.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
184
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 14:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Sentry Drones, while great, are not as great as either CMs post-patch, or Projectiles. Each PvE content is different and each is designed to test different abilities. Because one can change ship fittings to match the content (including the ship itself) would a "King of PvE" be the one ship that handles them all equally well and ideally requires no changes. The new Dominix with with MJD+AB(or MWD) needs practically no tank, towers over all NPCs from a 100km distance and deals 800+ DPS over the entire range with extreme tracking. It is also very close to mining asteroids in nature and about as fun. This is pretty much what I expect a "King of PvE" would be like.
Except that if you took that ship in any Guristas mission it would get pounded stupid from over 100 KM away.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Whitehound
1483
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 15:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Except that if you took that ship in any Guristas mission it would get pounded stupid from over 100 KM away.
You do not get "pounded stupid" at 30km or 100km by Guristas. They are rather weak, because they rely partly on their e-war, which at 100km has no effect. It is all only kinetic damage beyond 30km and it is very easy to tank, and at 100km will you see many missiles die in space before they can reach you. Hence no need for a tank. Not that you cannot fit one, you only have no need for one.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Cage Man
237
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Sal Landry wrote:Cage Man wrote:No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. Confirming that you've never used the new CNR Has he used the new RNI?
I have not used it since the changes, I sold it a while ago. Question to you though.. Is have you tried anything else yourself? I don't go comparing your T2 fit cruise raven to a meta 4 fit mach. Train the skills up and then compare.. then come back and let me know which worked better. Each to his own I guess..
The thick plottens... |
Cage Man
237
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Cage Man wrote:
Paper dps means nothing in the game. I have used both and can say the mach will complete the mssions faster for the simple reason that it can insta pop frigs and cruisers on approach. No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. You can rigor fit and TP fit all you want inf you favorite fit tool, there is no way its going to practically work better. 4 grouped 800mm ac will insta pop a frig from 15km to 60km and will be ready for its next victim in 3 ish seconds. A bit slower against kinetic weak rates.. but still.
PS.. it also has a faster lock time than the other ships. Only time I don't use my mach is in amarr space as the NM is better there.
I have yet to try the TFI, but suspect it will do really well, probably better than the Navy raven purely because it can insta smaller stuff on approach with 5 x T2 sentries.
Null anoms, use a sentry carrier, will apply damage better than a Thany, even though EFT says it has more dps...
Funnily enough I was talking about actual DPS not paper DPS.
Actual as in taking into account explosion radius, explosion velocity, reload time?? actual time it takes to complete a mission??
The thick plottens... |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2064
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 01:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
Moros |
Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
Kill It With Fire
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 19:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
Agreed. Moros, followed by the Naglfar. Moros has better DPS for blapping things, but I love the tracking / lock time on my triple-sebo, triple-tracking comp Nag. 
I dare any of your puny battleships to match that level of DPS, or the ISK / hour numbers our dreads pull in.  |
Cage Man
237
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 19:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:Agreed. Moros, followed by the Naglfar. Moros has better DPS for blapping things, but I love the tracking / lock time on my triple-sebo, triple-tracking comp Nag. I dare any of your puny battleships to match that level of DPS, or the ISK / hour numbers our dreads pull in.
You ain't gonna hit **** in that unless you have at least 2 friends webbing for you... so BS still better.
Any half decent null bear makes more solo and easier. eg, in gallente null.. undock vindi (before patch naga), hit some forsaken hubs in an system with an ihub make easy 100mil per hour, no salvage, no fuss.
You will need to wait for at least 5-6 six pilots, unless you box them all.. shoot, salvage, find a HS route, then go sell loot... and if you add up all this tame taken.. you can't match it... I know I have done both (lived in a C6 for a long time and even solo'd a C3 for a while, different toon's obviously).
Only other easy way is in a decent incursion fleet if you don't have to wait to get in.. but you still need to move to different systems.
The thick plottens... |
Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
Kill It With Fire
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 22:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
When you have half a dozen dreads all shooting at once you can speed through sites very quickly; by my stopwatch it's something like 200m / hour / pilot for doing full esclations, just have the Noctis pilots trail behind the main fleet and a couple guys handle blue loot for the whole corp a few times per month. When the corp is big enough, waiting for extra pilots is not a huge issue. |
Tsukino Stareine
The Red Circle Inc.
421
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 23:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Except that if you took that ship in any Guristas mission it would get pounded stupid from over 100 KM away.
You can orbit your sentries to reduce much of the pathetic kinetic missile damage. |
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