Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.

thanatos (15 bouncers)

You can't use a Thanatos in High Sec...

The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.

An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.

Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.

Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


1225 Dps at 60k (Drones)
1066 at 150k (Pure Missile)
465 ms

Not sure if genuine, but if so, then don't forget the Explosive Radius Reduction buff the RNI got this patch - 25% reduction with Lvl 5 skills. Add this to the CM base damage increase and PVE is a joke now. Cruisers and BCs get 1 shot just about every time. BSs get 2-3 shot. Change to Precision for Frigates and 2 shot is very common.

The optimal fit IMHO is:

CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU or T2 BCU
DC II or DDA II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Republic Fleet TP
Republic Fleet TP
Gist A-Type 100MN AB
Imperial Navy Heavy Cap Booster

CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II

T2 Flare
T2 Rigor
T2 Rigor

Use T2 Fury & Precision.

Don't forget to tailor 5% implants to CMs and general missile skills.

The RNI has gone up in price by 200-250 Mil ISK since the patch, but it's still cheaper than the Mach.

The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.

Applied DPS, even considering you're in falloff most of the time, is still better on the Mach. Stats on paper are one thing, actual performance is another. Both are solid. Anyone who's used both tends to lean towards the Mach as the better of the two. Although some missions that put you at extreme range to rats may favor the RNI.

Overtanked. You don't need a Shield Amp. The Co-Processor is taking a slot that could either be used for a DDA or a DC. The Sensor Booster would only ever get used for Worlds Collide.

CNR applied dmg got worse than before, and applied dmg has always been the problem. Cruise missiles got a nerf in exp radius and exp velocity. You need BS 4 to just counter the 20% exp radius nerf, and there's nothing for exp velocity.

sebo with scan res is useful anywhere. and a few more missions where you want over 93km targeting range (CNR with max skills). Worlds collide as you said plus The Assault, the score, and pirate invasion (especially since npcs can spawn in structures and bounce even further away). then again at that range it might just be better to micro jump drive and brawl it out, especially considering that is way out of target painter range, and/or I wouldn't want to burn all the way out in a mach either.

While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.

So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.

I have an SNI as well and it's great. It has a higher RoF than the RNI, but slightly less applied DPS because it's not got the 25% Explosive Radius Reduction bonus that the RNI gets. Better tank though. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd say fly the SNI if your missile and support skills are middle of the road (Lvl 3 and no lower), and the RNI if those skills are Lvl 4 -5. The SNI is far more forgiving. Either way, don't scrimp on the cash when it comes to fitting - Faction BCUs and a nice DS Booster are order of the day.

Whichever you use, both need 2 x Republic Fleet TPs, 2 x T2 Rigor and 1 x T2 Flare IMHO.

In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.

In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.

tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.

LEVEL 4 MISSIONS

Per 20 min / isk tick = best ship?
Mission blitzing for LP rewards = best ship?

ANOMALIES

Hubs = best ship?
Havens = best ship?
Sanctums = best ship?

If you have to deal with Guristas, is the super low sensor strenght a problem on the Golem? My SNI gets jammed once in a while so i'd like to know what it looks like on a Golem before buying into one.

I'm told it's a pretty severe issue with golems.

With all Marauders except for mission grinding armor ones can fit sebos in mids but still, any fly farting in africa will jam your Marauder 2 galaxies away.

Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle.

Guristas are meanies

In a single group of 5 or 6 rats you can have 4 of them with jamming ability (duno in high sec now) and several jamming you at the same time, even my Tengu in some unrated sites (with sensor well over 35) gets jam for enough time you can't kill a simple frigate for a couple minutes which is ridiculous, doesn't happen all the time but still.

According to pro's tiers that sustained me over the ship re balance threads...it is TFI.....

Try using ECCMs and those African flies will be much less hassle.

The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.

SNI start with a sensor strenght of 30. Adding an ECCM will put it just shy of 60 and you still get some jams.

Golem start with a sensor strenght of 14. An ECCM will put that just shy of 28. It's an improvement but still jam prone.

No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this.

In regards to level 4s, the MWD Mach is probably best for isk ticks and blitzing.

In regards to missiles, the CNR is nice, but Golem is better since you can loot and salvage as you go (more isk.) Raven might be better than the CNR due to RoF bonus, however, CNR has a high alpha which makes it easier to one shot things. Golem, Raven, and CNR are better than the other cruise boats because they get a missile speed buff which in Odyssey translates to almost no more DPS loss to miscounting volleys, and because the hulls have long sensor range. TFI is best in raw DPS (due to 5x sentries + cruise missiles) *if* you're dealing with NPCs that consistently spawn within your sentry (and sensor) range.

tl;dr - I doubt there's a King of PvE anymore, and if there is, the Mach probably holds it, but the gap has closed.

Confirming that you've never used the new CNR

Paper dps means nothing in the game. I have used both and can say the mach will complete the mssions faster for the simple reason that it can insta pop frigs and cruisers on approach. No cruise or torp fit ship is going to do this. You can rigor fit and TP fit all you want inf you favorite fit tool, there is no way its going to practically work better. 4 grouped 800mm ac will insta pop a frig from 15km to 60km and will be ready for its next victim in 3 ish seconds. A bit slower against kinetic weak rates.. but still.
PS.. it also has a faster lock time than the other ships. Only time I don't use my mach is in amarr space as the NM is better there.
I have yet to try the TFI, but suspect it will do really well, probably better than the Navy raven purely because it can insta smaller stuff on approach with 5 x T2 sentries.

Null anoms, use a sentry carrier, will apply damage better than a Thany, even though EFT says it has more dps...

I am shocked at the fact that everyone seems to have ignored the Rattlesnake altogether, it is a fantastic ship, I active tank mine and i can squeeze out 1158 dps with sentries and cruise missiles. One can also use Wardens to pop things from afar.

Sentry Drones, while great, are not as great as either CMs post-patch, or Projectiles.

Each PvE content is different and each is designed to test different abilities. Because one can change ship fittings to match the content (including the ship itself) would a "King of PvE" be the one ship that handles them all equally well and ideally requires no changes.

The new Dominix with with MJD+AB(or MWD) needs practically no tank, towers over all NPCs from a 100km distance and deals 800+ DPS over the entire range with extreme tracking. It is also very close to mining asteroids in nature and about as fun.

This is pretty much what I expect a "King of PvE" would be like.

Except that if you took that ship in any Guristas mission it would get pounded stupid from over 100 KM away.

Has he used the new RNI?

Funnily enough I was talking about actual DPS not paper DPS.

Moros

Agreed. Moros, followed by the Naglfar. Moros has better DPS for blapping things, but I love the tracking / lock time on my triple-sebo, triple-tracking comp Nag.

I dare any of your puny battleships to match that level of DPS, or the ISK / hour numbers our dreads pull in.

Except that if you took that ship in any Guristas mission it would get pounded stupid from over 100 KM away.