In any case, I don't see why you're here tossing little snarky throw-away lines into a discussion which is intended to be by-and-for citizens of the Federation. I have taken pains to try and keep Federation citizens out of Havohej's discussion, after all. I would have hoped the same courtesy would be extended to this one.

You're not. You're meant to employ reasoning with the people who are reasonable.

Disentangle the conversation and have it, it's a valid one to have. The whys, wherefores and consequences of Colelie are one conversation. The question of whether or not the Federation respects the Matari and is content to leave the Tribes to chart their own course is another. The latter may have springboarded off the former, but it's a subject that can be discussed on its own, I think.

And if somebody tries to kill you, you try and kill them right back. That's the way of the world.



When would be?

You're not. You're meant to employ reasoning with the people who are reasonable.

Disentangle the conversation and have it, it's a valid one to have. The whys, wherefores and consequences of Colelie are one conversation. The question of whether or not the Federation respects the Matari and is content to leave the Tribes to chart their own course is another. The latter may have springboarded off the former, but it's a subject that can be discussed on its own, I think.

And if somebody tries to kill you, you try and kill them right back. That's the way of the world.



When would be?

May I propose a novel idea?

"Federation and Republic citizens, let's talk to each other."

I see no reason why these things can't be done concurrently, nor indeed do I see any reason why the discussion couldn't lead to a reconciliation.

There's no such thing as an "appropriate time" for a conversation, pilot, with the possible exception of "right now."

I see no reason why these things can't be done concurrently.

I see no reason why these things can't be done concurrently.

Your analogy isn't just crude, it's useless. We're not in a courtroom here. We're in the real world, where multiple things are capable of being discussed simultaneously because there is no arbiter of justice with limited attention to appeal to.

Both sides have faults. Doesn't matter if one is worse than the other. Both sides screwed up. So, both sides need to ******* suck it up, get over themselves, say 'my bad,' leave it at that, and focus on reaffirming this alliance.

I'd politely suggest that if both Matari and Caldari are levelling that accusation, it might well be an accusation worth taking seriously.

Here's the thing with that attitude.

If any race in the cluster could be called xenophobic, it's the Caldari. (Note phrasing: I'm not saying they are xenophobic, just that they come pretty damn close sometimes). They're insular, the Napaani language is inherently biased against foreigners... and then there's the fact that the State is extremely structured, conservative, and oh yes, has a colossal grudge against the Federation. This is an entity that isn't going to take cultural influence from anyone kindly, and certainly not from the Federation.

Meanwhile, the Minmatar are trying to recover from a pretty long time under the very real cultural domination of the Amarrians. That's a situation that will put anyone on the defensive - and the Matari are a pretty strong-willed race to begin with, so a natural tendency to be dubious about someone else's ideas has been magnified a thousandfold.

Since I'm on the topic, the Amarrian Empire is defined by its culture and the belief that everyone should have that culture, so anyone else's ideas can go screw themselves.

I'm not saying Gallentean 'cultural imperialism' is a myth. I'm just pointing out that everyone else in a position to comment on it is naturally massively biased.

Whether or not the allegations of Federal arrogance are warranted is an important question in and of its own right, and a conversation worth having in and of its own right.

There is no good reason - none - why that conversation cannot be concurrent with the one about Colelie.

Indeed, if such really was the root cause of the battle, then one possible avenue for the Federation to secure an apology would be for them to address the allegations against their character and absolve themselves.

A) On what grounds do you disagree? What good reason is there that the conversation about attitude cannot be concurrent with the one about the battle at Colelie?

and B) Please specify exactly where, and what, the flaw in my reasoning is.

Whether or not the Republic owes the Federation an apology is a very different matter to whether or not they are persuaded that they do. As I said, this isn't a courtroom where an arbiter of justice will hand down judgement. If the Federation wants that apology and any remuneration that goes with it, then they will receive it only if the Republic is both persuaded that it is owed and also feels obligated to honour that debt.

Having the conversation about arrogance and attitudes etc. is a potential gambit the persuasion side of things.

You are assuming the the Federation wants to persuade the Republic, Mr. Stitcher. That is the flaw in your reasoning, and why I disagree.

If the Federation wants that apology...

If the Republic does not inherently understand the severity of their actions and how that undermines any legitimate claims they may have against the Federation, then a severe myopia on their part is revealed. There is no value in an "ally" that seeks to invade and slaughter your citizens because they feel slighted, Mr. Stitcher.

I will always appreciate that Gallenteans and Caldari alike both seek to govern their respective empires by the principles of the rule of law. One must really consider who one's friends and enemies are.

Mr Hakatain. Mr Phobos.

While I certainly respect your right to air your opinions (especially given your position in a largely Republic aligned corporation, Hakatain) I do remember some time ago a level and moderate voice asked that the Caldari remain silent in the aftermath of Colelie. Given that this is supposed to be a place for Federal citizens to volunteer their opinions, could you both be convinced to leave the opinions to us?

I ask only because I am greatly concerned that the continued presence of the Caldari here places words in our mouths.

I will always appreciate that Gallenteans and Caldari alike both seek to govern their respective empires by the principles of the rule of law. One must really consider who one's friends and enemies are.