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Venus Penus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey. I tried to find out if there were any restriction on for example using the "enter wormhole" function on a Wormhole if you have recently attacked someone or done anything aggressive as there is on docking in stations and using normal jump gates? Lets say I attack a heron coming into WH space, and after doing so several of his friends jumps in after him to get me, could I just use the Wormhole and jump trough to the safety of highsec even though I recently engaged another ship?
Thanks! |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Clear to jump captain. As long as you haven't double jumped recently. |

Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump." -Bl+¦d
Wormholes are the best Space.. |

Venus Penus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nix Anteris wrote:Clear to jump captain. As long as you haven't double jumped recently.
Thanks for the quick answer. :) So the only way to stop someone from escaping trough a WH would be to bump them out of range to enter the WH or hinder them in getting in range with webs? |

Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
202
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump."
5 minutes per side as well. This means in rare cases you can be clear on one side of a wormhole but when you try to jump back you'll have a timer on the other side.
Example: you jump through a B274 and wait 3 minutes. Then you jump back through the K162 (starting a new timer) and wait 2 minutes. Now your original 5 minute timer is clear, so you jump back through the B274, but you are still timered approximately 3 minutes on the K162 side.
1) -> B274 (B274 timer started) 2) 3 minutes 3) -> K162 back into the wormhole (K162 timer started) 4) 2 minutes 5) -> B274 (B274 new 5 min timer) 6) -|> try to jump K162 again, but ~3 minutes remaining.
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Venus Penus wrote:Nix Anteris wrote:Clear to jump captain. As long as you haven't double jumped recently. Thanks for the quick answer. :) So the only way to stop someone from escaping trough a WH would be to bump them out of range to enter the WH or hinder them in getting in range with webs?
Webbing people straight off the bat when they decloak on top of a wormhole is probably not going to stop them jumping back. (Unless they decloak early, or are extremely unlucky and you can instalock and instapop them.)
Sorry to say, wormholes that go to safe places, aren't the best places to hunt. |

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1469
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 23:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump." 5 minutes per side as well. This means in rare cases you can be clear on one side of a wormhole but when you try to jump back you'll have a timer on the other side. Example: you jump through a B274 and wait 3 minutes. Then you jump back through the K162 (starting a new timer) and wait 2 minutes. Now your original 5 minute timer is clear, so you jump back through the B274, but you are still timered approximately 3 minutes on the K162 side. 1) -> B274 (B274 timer started) 2) 3 minutes 3) -> K162 back into the wormhole (K162 timer started) 4) 2 minutes 5) -> B274 (B274 new 5 min timer) 6) -|> try to jump K162 again, but ~3 minutes remaining. Svo.
Polarity timer is 4 minutes. |

Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 23:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump." 5 minutes per side as well. This means in rare cases you can be clear on one side of a wormhole but when you try to jump back you'll have a timer on the other side. Example: you jump through a B274 and wait 3 minutes. Then you jump back through the K162 (starting a new timer) and wait 2 minutes. Now your original 5 minute timer is clear, so you jump back through the B274, but you are still timered approximately 3 minutes on the K162 side. 1) -> B274 (B274 timer started) 2) 3 minutes 3) -> K162 back into the wormhole (K162 timer started) 4) 2 minutes 5) -> B274 (B274 new 5 min timer) 6) -|> try to jump K162 again, but ~3 minutes remaining. Svo. Polarity timer is 4 minutes.
I thought 5 minutes as well.... but then I'm wrong a lot.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |

Marsan
Caldari Provisions
117
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 01:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also note that concord can stop you from jumping. (Even if you could escaping concord is an exploit.) Of course nothing stops them from pursuing through the wormhole if they know about it. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2050
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 02:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump." 5 minutes per side as well. This means in rare cases you can be clear on one side of a wormhole but when you try to jump back you'll have a timer on the other side. Example: you jump through a B274 and wait 3 minutes. Then you jump back through the K162 (starting a new timer) and wait 2 minutes. Now your original 5 minute timer is clear, so you jump back through the B274, but you are still timered approximately 3 minutes on the K162 side. 1) -> B274 (B274 timer started) 2) 3 minutes 3) -> K162 back into the wormhole (K162 timer started) 4) 2 minutes 5) -> B274 (B274 new 5 min timer) 6) -|> try to jump K162 again, but ~3 minutes remaining. Svo. Polarity timer is 4 minutes. I thought 5 minutes as well.... but then I'm wrong a lot. youre not wrong, it is 5min. the 4min number comes from when you had 2 30s session change timers to wait out too. |

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1469
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 02:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Anti-social Tendencies wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Polarization
"If you jump the same wormhole twice within 5 minutes, you are polarised and cannot jump that wormhole any more until 5 minutes after the initial jump." 5 minutes per side as well. This means in rare cases you can be clear on one side of a wormhole but when you try to jump back you'll have a timer on the other side. Example: you jump through a B274 and wait 3 minutes. Then you jump back through the K162 (starting a new timer) and wait 2 minutes. Now your original 5 minute timer is clear, so you jump back through the B274, but you are still timered approximately 3 minutes on the K162 side. 1) -> B274 (B274 timer started) 2) 3 minutes 3) -> K162 back into the wormhole (K162 timer started) 4) 2 minutes 5) -> B274 (B274 new 5 min timer) 6) -|> try to jump K162 again, but ~3 minutes remaining. Svo. Polarity timer is 4 minutes. I thought 5 minutes as well.... but then I'm wrong a lot. youre not wrong, it is 5min. the 4min number comes from when you had 2 30s session change timers to wait out too.
I have a stopwatch I use when I'm closing WH's It's set for a 4 min countdown. I guess it could be broken.
I guess the wiki could be wrong as well, because it states 4 minutes. not 4 minutes plus session changes.
|

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2050
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 02:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
go find a wh. jump through it. jump back immediately. try to jump back again. your timer will be 4m30s odd. certainly more than 4min. |

Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
203
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:go find a wh. jump through it. jump back immediately. try to jump back again. your timer will be 4m30s odd. certainly more than 4min.
As Jack says, I can 100% guarantee it is not 4 minutes. It could be 4 minutes 47 seconds or some BS, but it's pretty much "5 minutes"
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1373
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 04:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote: youre not wrong, it is 5min. the 4min number comes from when you had 2 30s session change timers to wait out too.
BACK WHEN I WUZ YER AGE http://www.wormholes.info |

Cheerfull Person
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 06:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Venus Penus wrote:Nix Anteris wrote:Clear to jump captain. As long as you haven't double jumped recently. Thanks for the quick answer. :) So the only way to stop someone from escaping trough a WH would be to bump them out of range to enter the WH or hinder them in getting in range with webs?
Unless your the first to get through a WH after a DT you will end up in Jumprange. This said dont fight on highsecs, only ppl that like highsec war docking games do it (i.e. ADD affected mentally unstable teenage girls). Fightting on Higsec entrances is a waste of time. |

Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 07:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's been 4 minutes for the longest time. When I roll statics, I just use the clock and four minutes is exactly where it's at. Also the session change timer on WH's isn't 30 seconds.
Edit: Both of us claiming 4 minutes live in C4's that have been known to be bugged. Maybe it's just another feature of x877's. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1374
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 08:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sounds like it's time for some independent testing. http://www.wormholes.info |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 08:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:It's been 4 minutes for the longest time.
Take it from someone who has been living in wormholes for the last 3.5 years. It is 5 minutes.
Go and triple jump your closest WH, you'll have a message stating you are polarised for the next 4 minutes and 30 seconds, add on 2x 10 second session change timers, transiting time, couple of seconds for approach. Its going to be so close to 5 minutes that you might as well just say it's 5 minutes.
Unless it really is a feature of class 4s, and nobody cares about those or their inhabitants anyway.
Evangelina Nolen wrote: Also the session change timer on WH's isn't 30 seconds.
It used to be, and in my opinion it should never have been changed.
So, now all of those arguments are cleared up. Let it drop. |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
494
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 10:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fighting on hisec holes is not always pointless. Some people feel very safe at a hisec hole, and will not notice what is happening until they are bumped off and then webbed down to 2 m/s by a Vigilant :)
I also died at hisec holes a few times, because of clever baiting. One ship is obvious bait, you engage it but remain carefully near jump range. Then his reinforcements arrive, strong but you think you can win, so you go for them. Then his real reinforcements arrive, and you are blobbed and webbed by ten ships and die  . |

Nebu Retski
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 11:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:your timer will be 4m30s odd. certainly more than 4min. Interesting. I haven't measured the time, but if it's around 4m30s then I supose CCP is simply using an 8-bit counter that increments by 1 every second. That gives you 256s in total or about 4m27s and automatically overflows back to 0 after 4m27s.
|

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2054
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 12:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
it's 5 min. it's not 4 min. it's not 4m27s. it's 5 min.
you end up with a ~4:30 timer because it takes ~30sec to do the round trip.
no, the session timer is not 30s, but it was 3 years ago. |

Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 12:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
it is 5 minutes. How has this not killed me by now I'll never know. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1375
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 12:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
While the rest of you were armchair quarterbacking, I was out and busily testing and recording timers on different types of wormhole connections:
H296 (C5->C5): 5 minutes E175 (C5>C4): 5 minutes X877 (C5>C4): 5 minutes N766 (C4>C2): 5 minutes
Each link above connects to a screenshot showing the timer on the third-jump polarization message. As Jack Miton has stated, there are an additional 20 seconds for the session timers, plus approach-time and general syncing.
SCIENCE, BITCHES!!! http://www.wormholes.info |

Nebu Retski
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 15:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
**** yeah I was right, it's an 8 bit counter giving you 4m26s (rounding down instead of up) for the timer. Just need to add the session change timer to it 
EDIT: ooh pity I just noticed the last picture has 4m28s . Pretty stupid amount for the timer if they don't use an 8bit counter. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1377
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 16:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nebu Retski wrote:EDIT: ooh pity I just noticed the last picture has 4m28s  . Pretty stupid amount for the timer if they don't use an 8bit counter.
It's...it's almost like...they can program whatever number they actually want. http://www.wormholes.info |

Nebu Retski
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 18:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Nebu Retski wrote:EDIT: ooh pity I just noticed the last picture has 4m28s  . Pretty stupid amount for the timer if they don't use an 8bit counter. It's...it's almost like...they can program whatever number they actually want.
no way, how?
Seriously though, for optimization purposes, with that timer (~258 seconds) it would be wise for them to use an 8 bit counter (e.g. unsigned char = 8 bit counter -> 0-255) because it reduces their data foot print for WH timers to be 2-4 times smaller (on 32 bit software a short = 16 bit and an int = 32 bit). For the amount of data that the servers need to handle I would consider that every bit of data reduction would be a nice thing to have, but that of course doesn't mean CCP thinks of such things. |

Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
203
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 19:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nebu Retski wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote:Nebu Retski wrote:EDIT: ooh pity I just noticed the last picture has 4m28s  . Pretty stupid amount for the timer if they don't use an 8bit counter. It's...it's almost like...they can program whatever number they actually want.  no way, how? Seriously though, for optimization purposes, with that timer (~258 seconds) it would be wise for them to use an 8 bit counter (e.g. unsigned char = 8 bit counter -> 0-255) because it reduces their data foot print for WH timers to be 2-4 times smaller (on 32 bit software a short = 16 bit and an int = 32 bit). For the amount of data that the servers need to handle I would consider that every bit of data reduction would be a nice thing to have, but that of course doesn't mean CCP thinks of such things.
The hell are you talking about? It's 300 seconds. 5 Minutes. There is travel time, session time, and load time. That's why you don't see 5 minutes. What you're talking about is optimizing the tiniest bit of data usage on the whole server. My KEYBOARD runs a 5 minute timer without lag.
Svo. CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |

Nebu Retski
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 19:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:It's 300 seconds. 5 Minutes.
If you would check each of the pictures in Nathan Jamesons post above you would see that every picture has a timer at 4m26s, 4m23s, 4m24s, 4m28s
Add 20 seconds for 2 session change timers and some delay's between clicking jump, that comes pretty damn close to 5 minutes ;). I simply stated earlier that it looked interesting to me and that it looks like they use an 8 bit counter, but I can't say for sure if that is what CCP does or not.
Svodola Darkfury wrote:What you're talking about is optimizing the tiniest bit of data usage on the whole server. My KEYBOARD runs a 5 minute timer without lag.
Your keyboard doesn't run the most advanced gaming universe, it barely does anything so it's not very difficult to run a timer on it. For heavy duty servers on the other hand it pay's off if you can use simple systems to reduce every data usage and a decent programmer should never have an issue using something like a 8 bit counter for a timer (let alone coming up with it).
But to make it clear to all of you that are aggressively set to the 5 minute timer, I'm not stating that CCP uses an 8 bit counter to give you a timer of ~4m26s + 2*10s + couple of seconds delay. To me it merely looks like it, but without seeing some code or having CCP state that's how they do it I can never state it as fact. For all I care they use an 64 bit long and throw around unnecessary data. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1377
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 23:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nebu for CSM! He understands the important issues! http://www.wormholes.info |

Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
278
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 00:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nebu Retski wrote: But to make it clear to all of you that are aggressively set to the 5 minute timer, I'm not stating that CCP uses an 8 bit counter to give you a timer of ~4m26s + 2*10s + couple of seconds delay. To me it merely looks like it, but without seeing some code or having CCP state that's how they do it I can never state it as fact. For all I care they use an 64 bit long and throw around unnecessary data.
AFAIK They use python for much of the server game logic, the size of data types only restricted for compatibility reasons.
It would potentially be a fair resource saving if the jump timers could be stored in only 8bits but I'd have thought for reliability reasons they'd need to store the actual event time tho could explain why sometimes it seems a bit unreliable how long the timer actually is - I have definitely managed in some cases to rejump a direction only 4 minutes after the first pass in that direction. |
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