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Sticky:[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 18 post(s)

CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1285	Posted - 2013.06.26 12:50:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, here we go. I mentioned some changes in the other thread, but here they are in detail. Highlights include: Added warp speed for the travel/tank role Removed a mid slot from cargo role and also gave them 2 highs again Gave special bays to Iteron II, III, IV and Hoarder Fixed the weird CPU insanity Fixed their HP allocation favoring armor (this was leftover old design that I didn't fix first time through) Tried to separate within roles with some kind of distinct advantage or character (Don't expect anything too extreme here, everything I said in the first thread about haulers mainly being used for their cargo capacity is still true) Lots of other general tweaking On the topic of the special bays: In choosing what these ships would do there were several barriers to work through. We feel that these are already pushing the boundaries of tech 1 specialization, and that's why there is no ship bays/arrays which we feel would have broken those boundaries. Also, I'm sure some of you will be concerned about the imbalance inherent in having more ships for one race than another, and I urge you to look at the feedback on this topic across the EVE community and see that the majority points towards enduring some imbalance if it allows for more character. Here is the first thread with 40 pages or so for your enjoyment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=250079&find=unread Looking forward to your feedback, but please don't expect version 3, I have to get on with my life at some point SIGIL - Most HP Amarr Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility (was max velocity) Slot layout: 2H, 4M(+1), 6L(+1); 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 250 PWG(+180), 300 CPU(-450) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 2100(-900) / 17150m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 780(+624) / 1900(+884) / 2400(+2468) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 125(-30) / .86(-.14) / 11000000 / 13.1(-2.1) Signature radius: 175(-35) Warp speed: 6au/s (+1.5) BADGER - Most potential Cargo and Base Cargo in role (Also battle HAM Badger) Caldari Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility (was max velocity) Slot layout: 2H(+1), 6M(+2), 4L(+2); 1 turrets , 1 launchers(+1) Fittings: 185 PWG(+135), 380 CPU(-370) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 3900(-225) / 19593m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1440(+1166) / 750(+7) / 2060(+1200) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 127(+7) / .94(+.15) / 10650000(-2100000) / 13.8(-.1) Signature radius: 190(-30) Warp speed: 6au/s (+1.5) WREATHE - Fastest Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility (was max velocity) Slot layout: 2H(+1), 5M(+3), 5L(+3); 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 200 PWG(+155), 320 CPU(-280) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 2900(-400) / 18576m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1140(+1061) / 1000(+257) / 2250(+1469) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140(+15) / .81(-.19) / 10000000 / 11.2(-2.6) Signature radius: 155(-5) Warp speed: 6au/s (+1.5) Iteron - Good all-around (and Drones!?) Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility (was max velocity) Slot layout: 2H(+1), 5M(+3), 5L(+3); 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 215 PWG(+170), 350 CPU(-250) DRONES (bay / bandwidth): 30m3 / 15mbit Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 2700(-300) / 17294m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 960(+881) / 1050(+269) / 2600(+1819) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+5) / .78(-.22) / 11250000(+1000000) / 12.2(-2) Signature radius: 185(-5) Warp speed: 6au/s (+1.5) ======================================================================================= BESTOWER - Most potential Cargo Amarr Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Max Velocity Slot layout: 2H, 3M(-1), 6L(+2); 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 90 PWG(+20), 230 CPU(-520) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 4800 / 39201m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450(+255) / 850(-323) / 940(-233) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(-15) / .95(-.05) / 13500000 / 17.7(-.9) Signature radius: 215(+5) BADGER MARK II - Launcher, Most Base Cargo Caldari Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Max Velocity Slot layout: 2H, 5M(-1), 4L(+1); 1 turrets , 1 launchers(+1) Fittings: 80 PWG, 320 CPU(-680) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 7300(+2050) / 36674m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680(+132) / 760(-256) / 810(-206) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .93 / 13000000(-500000) / 16.8(-.6) Signature radius: 230(-20) MAMMOTH - Best travel time in role Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Max Velocity Slot layout: 2H, 4M(-1), 5L(+1); 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 80 PWG, 250 CPU(-500) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 5500(-125) / 35230m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 640(+249) / 600(-494) / 935(-238) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120(+10) / .91(-.09) / 11500000(-1000000) / 14.5(-2.8) Signature radius: 180(-20) ITERON MARK V - Average (to balance awesome Iteron II, III, IV) Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Max Velocity Slot layout: 2H, 4M(-1), 5L; 1 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 85 PWG, 270 CPU(-580) Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 5800(-200) / 37152m3 Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540(+71) / 650(-718) / 970(-515) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 105(-5) / .87(-.13) / 12500000(+750000) / 16.3 Signature radius: 220(-10) ======================================================================================= ITERON MARK II - Mineral Bay Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses: +5% Mineral Bay Capacity +5% Max Velocity Slot layo...


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1293	Posted - 2013.06.26 13:12:00 - [2] - Quote First page all positive, I'm outta here


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1304	Posted - 2013.06.26 13:28:00 - [3] - Quote Ore hold includes Gas Mineral hold does not include Gas and Ice products Ammo hold includes cap charges, nanite paste, bombs, and anything else in the "charge" group I believe (I will confirm this soon). We talked about doing a POS fueler (and I expect this to be the most legit complaint) but it just isn't possible atm. I can't go into specifics but please trust me here =/ Renaming strikes me as messy, but I'll bring it up with our story department and see what their opinion is.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1308	Posted - 2013.06.26 13:40:00 - [4] - Quote Abus Finkel wrote: I see no reason for anyone to train anything other than Gallente industrials if this goes through. Why use any other races if Gallente can do the same plus much more. For hauling needs outside of the special bays you will generally get better performance from options other than Gallente.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1320	Posted - 2013.06.26 13:59:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: I looked through this thread but didn't see any references to other industrial work. What are you referring to? I should be more careful about making vague references to future development. Basically, our extremely high level direction for the next while is focused towards building things - we have no idea what will fall out of this specifically, but the overall direction may lead to new potential uses for indie ships, which is why I felt fine leaving 4 of them more or less open to change down the road. Please don't read into this, there's nothing particular that I know of relative to these ships coming in the near future. As far as the the abuse of the hoarder ammo bay for compression - the difference in potential capacity and unpacked volume between it and the old Iteron V isn't enormous. Not different enough to create a new kind of abuse, though obviously would make for more efficiency. I'll make sure we talk about if we are happy with this and if not we can adjust the unpacked volume on the Hoarder accordingly.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1340	Posted - 2013.06.26 14:50:00 - [6] - Quote lycaniz wrote: I feel that the mammoth is a bit underwhelming but maybe that's just me.. As for the hoarder, make the 'ammo' count for cap boosters aswell and it will have a use! but as it is it is pretty meh tbh. It does count for cap boosters. Edited OP to make that more clear.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1365	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:01:00 - [7] - Quote Hm a few more answers: Ammo hold will not fit drones Only the first group is changed to 6au. Maybe I'll update OP with the value listed for the other roles. All of the stats in OP are base stats with no skills taken into account (except for the potential capacity number listed after base capacity) - More armor than shields is bacause thats how the racial design works usually, no reason to change it here just because you will usually have expanders fit. Expanders will not affect the new bays. The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that. Please don't expect name changes or art changes. I understand why you would want this but I just don't think its going to happen. We aren't going to just call Iterons ORE ships and leave the art the same, and we also aren't going to invest art resources in new modeling (or we would have made extra haulers for Amarr/Caldari), so they will be staying where they are. Name changes are slightly more realistic, but I still doubt the benefit would outweigh the harm. I will still investigate this. Very happy with your reaction, glad we could figure this out.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1367	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:12:00 - [8] - Quote The Primae has 2 holds, one for commodities and one for CCs. And to the above poster - the goal here is to provide niche roles to these ships, which is definitely accomplished through the commodities hold alone, as other people above have attested to. As far as the Orca - Because it does things other than have an Ore hold, I'm not super concerned about the overlap with the Iteron Mark whatever, but I'll check with Fozzie/Ytterbium to see what they think about it.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1368	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:16:00 - [9] - Quote The special bay ships all have a 550m3 normal cargo at the moment.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1368	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:16:00 - [10] - Quote Sofia Wolf wrote: Siddicus wrote: CCP Rise wrote: The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that. It doesn't need to have another bay for it, just to allow it in the current one it has =( Adding the ability to fit Command Centers into the bay will increase its usefulness significantly, and in the end, isn't that the goal of these changes? If my math is right with max expanders and t1 expander rigs Iti 3 should have around 2200 of general cargo spece, enough for 2 command centers. oh gosh this is true - I totally forgot about expanders (as I guess everyone else did), thanks!



CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2036	Posted - 2013.06.26 17:23:00 - [11] - Quote Quickly looks at the thread You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy! You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you! Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is going to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1419	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:26:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: Overall excellent changes, just one thing, will the special edition Ity 4 get any bigger Ore hold? The special edition ships are kind of odd.. Right now I have them set basically as Iteron Vs that are slightly better. I think they should probably stay that way since having a specialized hold seems strange for a ship that goes out for special events to a broad set of players.


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1476	Posted - 2013.06.27 11:29:00 - [13] - Quote Today's update: We are going to go ahead and bump the unpacked volume on the Hoarder significantly (up to 400000) to avoid any major issues with compression. This gives it the same packed volume to cargo ratio that the Iteron V has currently. One of the most recent posts mentions increasing the bonus per level from skills for the special bay haulers, and I was thinking the same thing. I'm going to increase the skill bonus per level for all the special bay haulers from 5% per level to 10% per level, and reduce the base bays to give basically the same potential bay size as before. This means you will still get an improvement at level 1 over any normal hauler, but you have to invest SP to make the difference quite as big. This seems especially appropriate since these ships don't have to sacrifice lows to reach the same capacity. I talked with our story team about renaming and they are going to think about it and get back to me. As I said before, there are problems with both sides so I've just left it in their hands and will report back to you guys as soon as I know more. As always, thanks for the feedback o/


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1483	Posted - 2013.06.27 13:21:00 - [14] - Quote I think our art guys are awesome. Its more about where we want their attention than how much attention they have. I chatted with Fozzie about the Orca and neither of us feel that any change is necessary for either ship. The Orca does so much more than haul Ore that there really isn't much tension between them.


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 6549	Posted - 2013.06.27 14:33:00 - [15] - Quote Unforgiven Storm wrote: 3 - We are willing to accept these hulls like they are in other line and just have the NPC symbol changed for now. It's fine that you can accept that, but we can't and won't. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1540	Posted - 2013.07.01 16:43:00 - [16] - Quote Hey sorry I've been missing for a bit - weekends you know. So I don't have much to add here, glad that you guys are still feeling good about this mostly. A couple small updates though: We are not going to do any name changes. There's just too much risk/cost in doing that with not enough benefit in this case. It is specifically concerning that we would change them based on current function, then change function in some way down the line and be left with names that make no sense. In general changing what things are called is pretty yucky so I feel good about avoiding it here. As far as WHEN, I can't say exactly but its a good chance that it will be before the end of Summer. Have fun see you o/


CCP Rise C C P C C P Alliance 1550	Posted - 2013.07.02 13:18:00 - [17] - Quote Yes, we will be rebalancing the manufacturing requirements in a similar manner to other recent rebalance efforts. Yes, on to HACs =) I completely agree that this rebalance paves the way for more industrial ship rebalancing in other classes, but those efforts aren't on the short term radar. There's just so many ships to work on! And new ones to create! And we really want to start chipping away at mod rebalance as well.


CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2673	Posted - 2013.09.11 09:52:00 - [18] - Quote Unpinning, 1.1 has been released.

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