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Benilopax	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:17:00 - [1] Im not here to accuse. I'm just commenting, but, Raven prices dropped below 100mil today. Is the market truely succumbing to the flaws in game?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:17:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2005 15:17:30 Originally by: Benilopax Im not here to accuse. I'm just commenting, but, Raven prices dropped below 100mil today. Is the market truely succumbing to the flaws in game? No, trit and pyerite prices collapsed. And there are too many Raven BPOs. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Xachiriah	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:21:00 - [3] So is this based off looking at one supplier in one or two regions or every supplier in every region? And I think the whole "z0mfg ravens are useless after the missile nerf" thing has been done to death, they're still in wide use, so hinting that the drop in price is a result of people not using them cause they're flawed is BS.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:23:00 - [4] It might also be smart marketting. Sell more of them at a slightly lower price = more money/time. And everyone else is catching on to the notion. ________________ <- Hates Whiners and people with generally crappy attitudes. Does not play well with morons.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:26:00 - [5] For a long time now, you could buy an Armageddon for 58-59m, while the Gold insurance payout is 60m and Platinum is 66m. I'm not complaining, because during the L4 agent inflationary period, the price peaked at 77m, but I will be keeping an eye on prices next year to see whether they plateau or keep falling.
babyblue	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:33:00 - [6] It's nothing to do with missile changes. Apocs are available under 100 Million. I have 5 I want to sell but not at that price. I tried to sell them out in low security for a small profit but no buyers. People aren't daft, they will go to a central hub for a large expensive item like that.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:39:00 - [7] pre-Coldwar: raven is most popular BS due to missiles being the ultimate PvE ship everyone buys a raven BPO present day: raven stopped being the ultimate Pve ship due to missile nerf demand has fallen prices of low end minerals collapsed, meaning build costs are less floods of characters with BPOs want to try and claw back some ISK out of their investments thus prices of ravens fall through the floor
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.26 15:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2005 15:17:30 Originally by: Benilopax Im not here to accuse. I'm just commenting, but, Raven prices dropped below 100mil today. Is the market truely succumbing to the flaws in game? No, trit and pyerite prices collapsed. Yep, it appears an empire-based alliance are dumping their low-end stock on the market atm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:08:00 - [9] Whilst there seems to be a fair bit of deflation in the market at the moment, it appears to be along the lines of a downward correction rather than a full-blown crash. Prices are still reasonably high by historical standards, and let's not forget that as far as ships are concerned the insurance system should stop prices from dropping too low (once they fall below a certain level, it becomes profitable to buy, insure and self-destruct, thus increasing demand relative to supply). Remember, it easn't so long ago that the forums were full of people whining about rampant inflation. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Hehulk	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:12:00 - [10] It's not just ravens. Tempests, Megathrons and Apocalypses have all seen smiliar price drops. Heck, I just got a tempest for 90 mil, but I'd say that was a tad extreme. ---------- "EvE isn't a game, it's a lifestyle" Jaegerknack, 5punkorp
MachZERO	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:18:00 - [11] Edited by: MachZERO on 26/11/2005 16:18:29 And it's been long overdue TBH... Everything moves in cycles. Take advantage of this gents. This downward turn has taken a looooong time to get here. Don't start worrying till you see trit dip below 1 isk per 100 million unit lots... When that happens... start worrying. --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" ---------------------------------------------
Lisa Run	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:20:00 - [12] I remember times when Raven bpcs were at 5.5-7 mil isk. The time when the Raven became mission ship number 1. But all tier-2 BS had a price of 115 mil isk or more. Ravens going for 127mil isk in empire. Has changed a bit.
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:20:00 - [13] Two years in a row I've now seen the eve market peak in the summer then begin to correct itself. Seems quite cyclical to me. I think its cuz in the summer people are busy with vacations, and summer jobs (for those uni students) that they don't have as much time to actually mine etc.. they just use their isk to buy what they need rather than make it themselves. This years peak seemed to be helped along nicely by the high amounts of isk that lvl 4 agents were bringing people, and now the down cycle seems to be more magnified by the fixing of those agents. typically it seems once summer vacations are over, people get back to the regular routines, and things like mining etc become more common even more now as people aren't doing as many lvl 4 missions as htey were. I for one find it nice that i can keep up during my Uni time as I can mine easily with my nice 3 minute cycle barge while i study or do homework at my computer. Heck i wouldn't have gotten through english lit class if it wasn't for mining. Having to move ore from my hold to the jet can kept me from falling asleep while reading jane eyre for a stupid essay.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.26 16:52:00 - [14] Would be nice if bpo owners could reprocess thier bpo's for something else.
Whirl	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:05:00 - [15] Quote: Heck i wouldn't have gotten through english lit class if it wasn't for mining. Having to move ore from my hold to the jet can kept me from falling asleep while reading jane eyre for a stupid essay. Heh, opposite for me, I fall asleep mining when I have no one to talk to or nothing else to do.
Dao 2	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:31:00 - [16] the missioners went back to mining ;p
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:34:00 - [17] I saw a Tempest for 99.45 mil in Molden Heath. ~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:35:00 - [18] I got a Dominix off escrow for 5.75m. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Dark Shikari I got a Dominix off escrow for 5.75m. We call that a statistical anomaly. I call it profit. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari I got a Dominix off escrow for 5.75m. We call that a statistical anomaly. ~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.26 17:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Dark Shikari I got a Dominix off escrow for 5.75m. We call that a statistical anomaly. I call it profit. That goes without saying. ~Captain Cutie, ISC Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Lisa Run	Posted - 2005.11.26 18:02:00 - [22] Edited by: Lisa Run on 26/11/2005 18:04:57 Well the main reason for theses low ship prices seems to be the mineral price. And a low mineral price is bad e.g. for young miners like someone in a mining cruiser with t1 lasers, who can't compete. OK, the low BPC prices are a reason, too. But that's only bad the group of BPO owners. It's just a result of how the system works: As long as it seems to be worth the investment, new people get into the BPC sale market. So even if a ship is highly demanded for months, the profit for the BPO owners goes down over time due to more people buying the BPO and selling BPCs. Usually a few month later the demand for the ship drops. The BPOs are still there => over supply. Well, what helps a bit is the influx of new players to the game. They don't have the money to buy BPOs, but have to be equipped.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:10:00 - [23] Oh, I totally realise people were whining about inflation only a few months ago. And the current mineral prices are actually quite sane. A year and a half ago, with a much smaller playerbase, a good price for Isogen was 70-80 ISK. It is only natural to see a higher plateau with twice the players and increased mineral demand for new large ship classes such as BC and Freighter, and near-universal use of BS. The big question is, what is the nature of the price correction mechanism? If it is mission and missile changes removing one significant source of inflation (L4s) and trickling down through the economy over the autumn, then we should see mineral prices stabilise at some reasonable plateu again. But if the price correction mechanism is macro mining, than the deflation could continue. As someone said, it is too early to say at the moment what will happen. I think we have to wait a few months yet.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Oh, I totally realise people were whining about inflation only a few months ago. And the current mineral prices are actually quite sane. A year and a half ago, with a much smaller playerbase, a good price for Isogen was 70-80 ISK. It is only natural to see a higher plateau with twice the players and increased mineral demand for new large ship classes such as BC and Freighter, and near-universal use of BS. The big question is, what is the nature of the price correction mechanism? If it is mission and missile changes removing one significant source of inflation (L4s) and trickling down through the economy over the autumn, then we should see mineral prices stabilise at some reasonable plateu again. But if the price correction mechanism is macro mining, than the deflation could continue. As someone said, it is too early to say at the moment what will happen. I think we have to wait a few months yet. The deflation, I believe, was primarily caused by the capital ship BPOs. They pulled so much money out of EVE it was insane. In a matter of days, trillions simply disappeared to be put into BPOs. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:12:00 - [25] Cmdr Sy, given the small number of macro miners (yes, people howl but that's because they frequent a small number of very visible belts), it's very unlikely to be them. Also, part of this is the LARGE amount of low-ends dumped by a certain empire alliance onto the market. I have no idea WHY they did it, but it's had a very definate effect this last week. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:29:00 - [26] (Referring to comments by DS and Maya) OK, I see now. Indeed, when freighters came out, a friend used the proceeds from a number of large POS to buy BPOs and start manufacture. The ISK he spent on the BPOs came from T2 material profits, via T2 ship sales by the conglomerates, via L4 missions and 0.0 NPCers by the eventual customers. That makes sense. The ore he was able to buy off market though, someone out there must have been mining it. Perhaps you guys are right, and macros are not significant players in terms of share of mineral input into the system. But I fear one day they might be. I won't say no to a cheap ship, but it is sad to contemplate honest Empire miners who brave 17.5k rat spawns and pirate war decs, going extinct.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:29:00 - [27] I haven't paid >1 for Trit or >4 for Pye in months - so I really don't know what all the fuss is about .. MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.26 19:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Cmdr Sy (Referring to comments by DS and Maya) OK, I see now. Indeed, when freighters came out, a friend used the proceeds from a number of large POS to buy BPOs and start manufacture. The ISK he spent on the BPOs came from T2 material profits, via T2 ship sales by the conglomerates, via L4 missions and 0.0 NPCers by the eventual customers. That makes sense. The ore he was able to buy off market though, someone out there must have been mining it. Perhaps you guys are right, and macros are not significant players in terms of share of mineral input into the system. But I fear one day they might be. I won't say no to a cheap ship, but it is sad to contemplate honest Empire miners who brave 17.5k rat spawns and pirate war decs, going extinct. I'd disagree with Maya here. I'd say macros are a huge input of materials into the system. However, they are competing with refined loot, which must produce a vast quantity of low end minerals. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Zekks MarKeys	Posted - 2005.11.26 23:46:00 - [29] roll up roll up get yer cheap minerals now carriers and titans are on the way lol
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:01:00 - [30] Edited by: Trevedian on 27/11/2005 00:02:33 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/11/2005 15:17:30 Originally by: Benilopax Im not here to accuse. I'm just commenting, but, Raven prices dropped below 100mil today. Is the market truely succumbing to the flaws in game? No, trit and pyerite prices collapsed. And there are too many Raven BPOs. Wrong... I have sold all four Tier 2 Battleship BPO's for the last 2 years and Raven BPC have fetched the highest price of all(by far). Until they were nerfed... I dunno who to blame really... Its supply and demand, and now that Ravens suck compared to how they used to be... in any case, its hardley a "Crash". Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
without	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:10:00 - [31] one of the biggest facters, by far , was that before patch (erm missile one) trit would go for >3isk a pop after the patch (donno if it was in before too) ppl found out that refineing coupling arays would give u trit for 2.2isk PU, that alone droped the price of trit down 40% within a week so cheap plenty trit from NPCs, lots of isk leaving the game (via this npc trit and the dred and freighter bpos). more miners becasue lvl4s are harder and give less profit, all factored in to lower prices of minerals thus ships too but i dont see how this can be a bad thing, we get cheaper ships
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Cmdr Sy (Referring to comments by DS and Maya) OK, I see now. Indeed, when freighters came out, a friend used the proceeds from a number of large POS to buy BPOs and start manufacture. The ISK he spent on the BPOs came from T2 material profits, via T2 ship sales by the conglomerates, via L4 missions and 0.0 NPCers by the eventual customers. That makes sense. The ore he was able to buy off market though, someone out there must have been mining it. Perhaps you guys are right, and macros are not significant players in terms of share of mineral input into the system. But I fear one day they might be. I won't say no to a cheap ship, but it is sad to contemplate honest Empire miners who brave 17.5k rat spawns and pirate war decs, going extinct. I'd disagree with Maya here. I'd say macros are a huge input of materials into the system. However, they are competing with refined loot, which must produce a vast quantity of low end minerals. Oveur stated in another thread they wern't. We really need a dev post finder or search feature, grr. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Cmdr Sy (Referring to comments by DS and Maya) OK, I see now. Indeed, when freighters came out, a friend used the proceeds from a number of large POS to buy BPOs and start manufacture. The ISK he spent on the BPOs came from T2 material profits, via T2 ship sales by the conglomerates, via L4 missions and 0.0 NPCers by the eventual customers. That makes sense. The ore he was able to buy off market though, someone out there must have been mining it. Perhaps you guys are right, and macros are not significant players in terms of share of mineral input into the system. But I fear one day they might be. I won't say no to a cheap ship, but it is sad to contemplate honest Empire miners who brave 17.5k rat spawns and pirate war decs, going extinct. I'd disagree with Maya here. I'd say macros are a huge input of materials into the system. However, they are competing with refined loot, which must produce a vast quantity of low end minerals. Oveur stated in another thread they wern't. We really need a dev post finder or search feature, grr. No, he didn't. If I remember correctly he simply shrugged off the suggestion, however, he never specifically said that macro miners weren't a large inputter of minerals into the system. What he did say was that they didn't cause the drop in tritanium prices. P.S. I'm pretty sure the Coupling Array exploit caused the drop. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Raindrop	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:50:00 - [34] Trit was selling @ 3.25 post patch for a few months. Trit has dropped down to about 2ish. Aside from macro miners bringing in a lot of low ends. Massive mineral stacks are now easily moved to fit the market wherever needed. Moving 60mill trit 20 jumps before the freighters was a moderate hauling job taking half a day or something. And now it's done in a few hours. This simply results in prices evening out. Where as before you saw price peaks in the main sell points(productions spots). You will now see that minerals prices have flattened to match those of the less occupied regions as it's easy to move around. My references for this knowledge: I'm a low end minerals trader for 2.5 years now. Raindrop 100% Carebear and loving it. Collector of junk and leftovers. NPC and low end minerals trader. Hauler.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:52:00 - [35] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 27/11/2005 00:52:11 Originally by: Raindrop Trit was selling @ 3.25 post patch for a few months. Trit has dropped down to about 2ish. Aside from macro miners bringing in a lot of low ends. Massive mineral stacks are now easily moved to fit the market wherever needed. Moving 60mill trit 20 jumps before the freighters was a moderate hauling job taking half a day or something. And now it's done in a few hours. This simply results in prices evening out. Where as before you saw price peaks in the main sell points(productions spots). You will now see that minerals prices have flattened to match those of the less occupied regions as it's easy to move around. My references for this knowledge: I'm a low end minerals trader for 2.5 years now. The freighters moving low end minerals contributed, but I would guess that the Coupling Array exploit for 2.2-per-tritanium pulled it down more than anything else. Freighters, however, kept it low. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.11.27 00:54:00 - [36] I'm buying Megathrons for 90m ISK. Am I worried by this? Hell no. Originally by: Avon I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
Ferrer	Posted - 2005.11.27 12:34:00 - [37] I wouldn't be too worried about the market depression. We've all seen how EVE's economy is a self-correcting system, with the price being a direct result of supply and demand. As such, the supply of mins at low prices is filtering up the market and being reflected in a lot more mineral intensive products than just the Raven. In time, the mins will get more scarcer as builders outstrip supply. In the meantime, you might just want to hold on to your low-end mins as an investment for when the market is in better shape.
Macel	Posted - 2005.11.27 14:16:00 - [38] Nah, the market was succumbing to flaws pre-cold war when there was way too much ISK coming into the player economy and not nearly enough going out. Inflation was out of control. The market is correcting itself now. There are more isk sinks, level 4 missions are more challenging and not nearly as lucrative as they once were in high security space, and an 800,000 skillpoint raven can no longer solo them.
Goldengamegod	Posted - 2005.11.27 15:15:00 - [39] Edited by: Goldengamegod on 27/11/2005 15:19:49 Edited by: Goldengamegod on 27/11/2005 15:15:15 I don't see why people are complaining about inflation/deflation in this game. ItÆs a player-controlled market; let it balance itself. When the ore prices drop people will stop mining them and prices will skyrocket, then fall again after mining picks up. Let it do its thing. ...cept maybe for the macro-mining problem, CCP should really start targeting and banning the buyers as well as the sellers. 2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.11.27 15:31:00 - [40] Now to see how macro miners affect the market check out the ice prices in empire latly over the past few months lol.
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.11.27 16:47:00 - [41] You should have seen what happend when NPC corps stopped selling mins at the old prices two years ago... Or what happend when high end ores were reintroduced about the same period. EvE's economy has seen a lot more up and downs in the last 2,5 years, I'm sure the lastest changes aren't going to crash the market . ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.

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