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A case against ECM.

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Mal Darkrunner Zero Tau Research Institute 8	Posted - 2011.10.24 16:26:00 - [31] - Quote Quote: I never said that there was a 91% chance of jamming all five Hurricanes, just that each Hurricane will be jammed 91% of the time. Each hurricane has a 91% chance of being jammed per cycle - not quite the same as will be jammed 91% of the time, since we're talking about chance (which does not apply to other forms of EWAR as their effects are always applied to the target if they're in range). Each hurricane may be permajammed, or may be jammed less than 91% of the time, depending on the will of the RNG gods and the duration of the fight (specifically the number of jam cycles employed). Longer fights (more jam cycles) are likely to average out towards 91% of the time overall, but over a short space of time the variation can be larger. Putting aside the semantics, let's consider some of the assumptions you've made in your model: You're assuming that you know ahead of time what the racial composition of the opposing gang will be, and have fitted the optimal set of jammers for dealing with it. I'm sure this does happen in PvP, but I'm also sure that you would not be able to do this for most engagements. Most ECM pilots I've come across fit a mixture of jammers (either rainbow or covering the two/three main races they expect to encounter). Either way, in a real fight it's entirely possible that one or more of your jammers would not be the correct type for your opponents, reducing the chances to jam accordingly. You're assuming an ideal opposing gang size (no more than 5 ships). An extra ship could make a large difference to the outcome of the engagement. Of course this point can go both ways (i.e. an extra ship on the side of the Rook or fewer hurricanes than expected would balance the outcome in the Rook's favour). Still, in a real PVP encounter, this is not something that could necessarily be counted on (for either side). You're assuming the Rook starts the fight a fair distance from the Hurricanes - a close in engagement could work out differently, as if a single hurricane gets a scram/web on you early in the fight then it may be more difficult to get away from the gang (I haven't checked speed/manouverability differences, so I'm making an assumption here too ) You're assuming the opposing gang has no EWAR of its own. If one of those hurricanes was an ECM boat or a Sensor Damping boat then the outcome could be very different. Sensor damps work very well against ECM (they also support ECM very nicely by increasing lock times in-between jams). Also I'm sure that if a hurricane gang came across a perma-jamming Rook constantly kiting them from 60km away, they would simply warp off as they would not be scrammed... Now, are some of the points above nit-picking? Yes they are. However, hopefully I've made the point that your numbers and your conclusion are based on assumptions that pit an ideally-fitted Rook against ideally-fitted (from the Rook's perspective) opponents. Of course the Rook is going to perform well in that perfect theoretical situation. Now, is that ideal situation likely to occur in real-universe PvP? My experience suggests that it won't (YMMV). Since the real-universe performance of any ship depends on a lot more that its EFT stats, is it fair to judge it based on theory that potentially over-estimates its performance? Lastly, if the Rook really was as OP as you are suggesting, why isn't everybody flying them, instead of the hurricanes, drakes, cynabals, vagabonds, dramiels and so on that I keep seeing? TL;DR - X is probable is not the same as X will always occur with that frequency. PVP does not occur in a bubble (even in the Alliance Tournament), and ideal theoretical conditions are unlikely to be encountered when PVPing.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 28	Posted - 2011.10.24 16:41:00 - [32] - Quote I killed a scorpion with my harbinger yesterday and it didn't get a single jam on me. Harbingers are overpowered, nerf harbingers. Actually I think it might just be that I'm not terrible at EVE.
Soporo Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.10.24 18:45:00 - [33] - Quote ECM boats: Neuts suck. Drones are the fking debil. An Eagle can kick your ass. A lolEagle. Being driven off or dying to FOF is ridiculous. Being jammed by lucky ECM drones is ridiculous. Everyone hates you. Always primary. ALWAYS. Some tard (not) will always have some ECCM or be a tad lucky, or both. Pilots would rather be scrammed, neuted and ranged than suffer a single ecm jam cycle. You must be wise (a pus) and let others appear/engage first, so you can live a few seconds longer.
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 21:07:00 - [34] - Quote It's really funny to see all the Caldari pilots swarm out of the woodwork to defend ECM while frothing at the mouth. ECM is the best ewar. You can argue otherwise but look at its frequency of use compared to other racial ewar. There should be no best in EVE. Therefor ECM is overpowered.
FeralShadow Black Storm Cartel 15	Posted - 2011.10.24 21:12:00 - [35] - Quote my falcon jammed two canes and a HAC simultaneously and for 3 minutes straight. And this was without racial-specific ECM's. Good times had by all (except those three pilots)
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 28	Posted - 2011.10.24 21:23:00 - [36] - Quote It's really funny to see all the Amarr pilots swarm out of the woodwork to defend neuts while frothing at the mouth. Neuts are the best ewar. You can argue otherwise but look at its 100% frequency of use compared to other racial ewar. There should be no best in EVE. Therefor neuts are overpowered.
Guillame Herschel NME1 7	Posted - 2011.10.24 21:48:00 - [37] - Quote Roosterton wrote: (Yes, I'm well aware that a real Rook will fit race specific jammers and not Minmatar ones, and that most Rooks have a bit more tank, and scourge missiles, but you get the picture.) Yes, I get the picture. You have never flown a Rook before.
Guillame Herschel NME1 7	Posted - 2011.10.24 21:53:00 - [38] - Quote Roosterton wrote: Alternatively, I'm being a good fleet Rook by staying out of standard drone control range where their drones can't do anything... If you are outside drone control range, you are also in T2-recon-bonused ECM falloff, and so your chance to jam is lower than if you were at optimal.
Borun Tal Space Pods Inc 0	Posted - 2011.10.24 23:38:00 - [39] - Quote Can't tell if this is a troll or EFT Warrior post...
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 23:46:00 - [40] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: It's really funny to see all the Amarr pilots swarm out of the woodwork to defend neuts while frothing at the mouth. Neuts are the best ewar. You can argue otherwise but look at its frequency of use compared to other racial ewar. There should be no best in EVE. Therefor neuts are overpowered. I wasn't aware of any movement to nerf neuts. But regardless: 1) Neuts are a high slot mod, and many ships of all races have utility highs, so each race has interest in neuts with Amarr only slightly ahead because of their recons. ECM however is only really useful on Caldari ships because they have the highest number of midslots to dedicate to them, so Caldari players will argue to the death against nerfing their racial ewar. (see the rest of this thread) 2) Amarr are the most cap reliant race in the game, don't you think if the neuts that hard-counter them got nerfed they would be the first to celebrate? Your stupid attempt at trolling just proved my point, thanks very much.

Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 29	Posted - 2011.10.25 00:43:00 - [41] - Quote Berendas wrote: Durr Amarr racial ewar gets used on non-amarr ships all the time, ECM dosen't and you're claiming that the frequency of ECM supports the position that it's the most powerful type of Ewar. Is the most frequently used Ewar the one that is overpowered? Because if it is then it isn't ECM that's overpowered, alternatively ECM isn't the most frequently used Ewar, pick one. You can't really believe that what you said actually makes sense, nobody is that stupid.
Roosterton Eternal Frontier 117	Posted - 2011.10.25 01:20:00 - [42] - Quote There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Roosterton Eternal Frontier 117	Posted - 2011.10.25 01:28:00 - [43] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Berendas wrote: Durr Amarr racial ewar gets used on non-amarr ships all the time, ECM dosen't and you're claiming that the frequency of ECM supports the position that it's the most powerful type of Ewar. Is the most frequently used Ewar the one that is overpowered? Because if it is then it isn't ECM that's overpowered, alternatively ECM isn't the most frequently used Ewar, pick one. You can't really believe that what you said actually makes sense, nobody is that stupid. Being fair to Berendas, I'm pretty sure the only reason neuts/NOS get used so much is because utility high slots are otherwise useless. If I could make a decision on my nanoshield hurricane between two utility highs for extra neuts, or two extra mids for more shields, I'd definitely go with the mids.
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 4	Posted - 2011.10.25 01:30:00 - [44] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Berendas wrote: Durr Amarr racial ewar gets used on non-amarr ships all the time, ECM dosen't and you're claiming that the frequency of ECM supports the position that it's the most powerful type of Ewar. Is the most frequently used Ewar the one that is overpowered? Because if it is then it isn't ECM that's overpowered, alternatively ECM isn't the most frequently used Ewar, pick one. You can't really believe that what you said actually makes sense, nobody is that stupid. I supposed I should have specified then, ECM is the most frequently used ewar in terms of ships dedicated to it. How many people have 'Pilgrim alts' as opposed to Falcon alts I wonder?
Roosterton Eternal Frontier 117	Posted - 2011.10.25 01:34:00 - [45] - Quote Berendas wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Berendas wrote: Durr Amarr racial ewar gets used on non-amarr ships all the time, ECM dosen't and you're claiming that the frequency of ECM supports the position that it's the most powerful type of Ewar. Is the most frequently used Ewar the one that is overpowered? Because if it is then it isn't ECM that's overpowered, alternatively ECM isn't the most frequently used Ewar, pick one. You can't really believe that what you said actually makes sense, nobody is that stupid. I supposed I should have specified then, ECM is the most frequently used ewar in terms of ships dedicated to it. How many people have 'Pilgrim alts' as opposed to Falcon alts I wonder? On that note, I've only ever seen one Pilgrim alt... And his main was in a Falcon.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 29	Posted - 2011.10.25 01:41:00 - [46] - Quote Berendas wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Berendas wrote: Durr Amarr racial ewar gets used on non-amarr ships all the time, ECM dosen't and you're claiming that the frequency of ECM supports the position that it's the most powerful type of Ewar. Is the most frequently used Ewar the one that is overpowered? Because if it is then it isn't ECM that's overpowered, alternatively ECM isn't the most frequently used Ewar, pick one. You can't really believe that what you said actually makes sense, nobody is that stupid. I supposed I should have specified then, ECM is the most frequently used ewar in terms of ships dedicated to it. How many people have 'Pilgrim alts' as opposed to Falcon alts I wonder? Going from that dosen't it seem pretty clear that the problem has more to do with the bonused ECM hulls than actual ECM modules themselves?
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 4	Posted - 2011.10.25 03:03:00 - [47] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: Going from that dosen't it seem pretty clear that the problem has more to do with the bonused ECM hulls than actual ECM modules themselves? I would agree with that. But putting the label of 'op' on the ship rather than the module makes ECM as it is used no less powerful.
Simyaldee Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse 1	Posted - 2011.10.25 03:12:00 - [48] - Quote You make several good points. ECM Boats such as Kitsunes, Blackbirds, Rooks, Falcons and Scorpions do seem overpowered. However thats one of my main points, you ever fit ECM to anything besides those ships? Good luck jamming anything. Dampeners, Painters, Webs, Scrams, and Neuts work with relative effectiveness on all ships, certainly recons and other ships get bonuses for them, but they work just fine on other ships. ECM does not. Also ECM boats(for the most part) do not apply any DPS at all. I fly with the Militia so I have quite a bit of experience with small gang PvP and ECM. And other ECM does render significant effects on the Battlefield. Ever been in a ship with turrets when your being TD'd by an Arbitrator? How about being in a kiting fleet and you get damped so you can't target past 20k's. A lot of people fit Medium Neuts on Hurricanes, I've seen two Hurricanes neut me out in a Drake(Which uses launchers which are cap independent) and shut of my MWD and all of my tank except for my Damage Control and tear me a structurally superfluous new behind. Ever been in a kiting fleet when your overloading your MWD and your 60k's away from everyone and your tank is breaking but your still pointed by that freaking Lach or your being caught by slower ships because a Rapier has you webbed and going 100k/s with your MWD overloaded? ECM Isn't the only game in town. Also since pretty much only those ships are seen using ECM. You will be an Instant Primary and one method I haven't seen in this forum is assigning your drones to fast tackle and having them primary any ECM that shows up on field. You don't need to lock anyone for this and It's hilarious watching a cloud of fifty drones trail behind an Inty or something and watching them tear into any ECM on field. I have made Falcons and Rooks virtually ineffective in a fleet fight by either killing them with said drones and intys or driving them off field. Also, most of these ships fit very little tank so if they have one Alpha Tempest even TECH ONE fit and you don't give a jam off your insta-popped. And God-forbid there a BS gang because most BS's can hit past 70k in their sleep. O.K. lets say you are in a fleet fight, you have two Falcons fit with a standard rainbow fit of Two Caldari, Two Minnie, One Amarr, One Gallente and a Prop Mod. Your fleet and the enemy has 20ish Canes, Drakes and Harbis, and fast tackle which is a pretty standard for most of the small gangs I see. The ECM Pilots need to be at range usually a little beyond their optimal. They need to target and manage about 6 targets each. And the enemy MUST NOT get them within drone range, damp them, burn to them, or warp off. The enemy must also have no ECM and they must also not send fast tackle to kill them(seeing as the Falcons along with most other ECM have a paper thin tank) And the Enemy must have nothing that can hit beyond 70ish(Ignore the fact that a single T1 Fit Drake with **** skills can do this no Prob). So the Enemy has and does none of the things I listed above. The Gallente Jammer is useless(don't say anything about Multispecs, nobody fits Multispecs unless they fail fit. imo anyway) because they have no Gallente ships. But you still manage to jam about half of their DPS for about 90ish% of the time. You win the fight get the loot and your EPEEN gets huge. Same scenario this time except you have two Curses. They also must warp in at range, they will neut the out of any fast tackle that comes close so that isn't much of a problem. The enemy must not damp them, burn to them or warp off or kill them with drones. They TD the out of the Canes and Harbis reducing their DPS. You win and their is much rejoicing. Now lets say you have no recons but you fit a damp to your drakes in place of a resistance Mod. The enemy must not close to within about 30-40ish. You reduce their DPS signifcantly and you win. Same thing happens with TD's. The basic thing I'm saying is. There are a myriad of simple and easy ways to counter ECM, and their is very little surprise factor involved because as soon as that ECM boat shows up everyone knows what it is going to do. However with the other ECM Mods you can have a very large surprise factor. (If you have ever asked why you can't Target at 30 K's or why your turrets can't hit ** you know this). Lets say your soloing in a Rook. You have Missiles fit obviously, you have ECM Rigs fit and the minimum necessity of a Prop Mod and Point and no shield tank, which leaves you room for five jammers. With this setup you either have no tank and ECM and BCU mods in the lows or you have an Armor tank. Lets say you DID fit all Minnie jammers and all your opponents are Canes. You warp in on one cane, point it, perma-jam with two Jammers and start killing it. It does not get any DPS off on you and its drones do not aggress. You have to repeat this for the second cane that warps in. You can only kill that one cane at that point because you have one point and the other can warp off(this is assuming that the first cane doesn't simply burn away because your slow as all hell). Third Cane warps in and you can't perma-jam it but you can do close. Fourth one warps in and now you can only almost Perma-jam three canes and perma jam one. And three of those canes can warp off at anytime. If a single cane can lock you for FIVE Seconds your screwed. Basically for a soloing Rook in this situation: 1 Cane = probable 2 Canes = possible 3 Canes = probably not 4 Canes = gtfo 5 Canes = GTFO Yes ECM works for a large variety of situations and yes it makes a ship relatively useless damage wise when it is jammed. If fit and flown correctly it can be a tremendous asset. However the other ECM mods have their own advantages and ECM is not a be-all, win-all or an Instawin button. Therefore it is not overpowered.
Cloora APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate 2	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:54:00 - [49] - Quote I would also like to point out, what other form of Electronic Warfare requires you to use 6-8 slots for those modules to be effective? My Falcon has a two slot armor tank and a prop mod. It can't do anything else except scan stuff down. When is the last time you saw a Lachesis with 3 damps and 3 points? Or a Curse with 4 TDs plus it's 3 or 4 nuets? Heck my Pilgrim only uses one TD and it can avoid any turrets DPS from any medium guns or larger CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Celery Man Talocan Mining And Industrial Talocan United 7	Posted - 2011.10.26 07:22:00 - [50] - Quote Mara Tessidar wrote: BECAUSE OF FALCON I was 5 years late to that meme,,,, BECAUSE OF FALCON

Cpt Fina The Tuskers 61	Posted - 2011.10.26 07:47:00 - [51] - Quote Would people pls stop calling ECM a force multiplier. That's only true if the smaller gang fields more ECM in relation to the larger gang. BUT in a world where the larger gang field a proportional amount of ECM (also known as Eve online) I'd say that this e-war is detrimental for small gang combat. ECM needs to be stackingpenalized when multiple modules/drones are used against a single target and/ir ECCM needs a significant boost.
Psychotic Monk The Skunkworks 3	Posted - 2011.10.26 18:12:00 - [52] - Quote Cpt Fina wrote: Would people pls stop calling ECM a force multiplier. That's only true if the smaller gang fields more ECM in relation to the larger gang. BUT in a world where the larger gang field a proportional amount of ECM (also known as Eve online) I'd say that this e-war is detrimental for small gang combat. ECM needs to be stackingpenalized when multiple modules/drones are used against a single target and/or ECCM needs a significant boost. It absolutly is a force multiplier. The arguement is that both sides could have their force multiplied, which is true of force multipliers in the real world, too. Let's pretend there's a gang of six pilots. All other things being equal (I'm aware that's never the case), those six can take on a gang of six with a 50% win rate. If one of those pilots is a Falcon, and can permajam three opponents, then that gang can take on eight otherwise equal pilots with a 50% win rate. If that gang of five plus a falcon runs into a gang of ten and two falcons, they're ******, not because they don't have force multipiers, but because they got out-forced and out-multiplied.
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 14	Posted - 2011.10.26 18:39:00 - [53] - Quote Simyaldee wrote: good stuff I stopped reading ECM whine posts except for the lulz. This is a pretty well written post though. The examples are bit much, but ontop of the normal rhetoric, the argument for being primary is true as the stars. Recons excel at ewar, but only the caldari excel where others are useless, which makes them a dire threat and an instant primary. other than that the usually waaaah wahhhhh ecm is OP. stop sucking at pvp and get over yourself
Tamiya Sarossa Hedion University Amarr Empire 47	Posted - 2011.10.26 19:46:00 - [54] - Quote I'm not a fan of ECM, but that's based on it being a **** mechanic not it being unbalanced. It's a **** mechanic because it's most aggravating use is locking down solo ships while they are ganked by blobs, which is the single most frustrating thing in EVE. In terms of overall EWAR, it's farily well balanced. I'd much rather see a Falcon on the field than a Curse - the Falcon is a one-trick jamming pony that can be neutralized easily by any combination of shooting it/bumping it while shooting it with F.O.F's/neuting it/having ECCM/having nuets on a fast ship/having your own jamming. And most importantly, that Falcon/Rook will never kill you by itself or prevent you from running - where the Curse/Rapier/Arazu can pin you down so you die. Fighting a blob and having a falcon dropped on you sucks, but you disengage and live - with a Curse/Rapier/Lach you're much more likely to end up dead instead of just annoyed. These days I look forward to seeing Falcons because with a little planning they're an easy kill - they can be a pain in the ass without planning, but if you're prepared, they're easily dealt with. None of this means that ECM shouldn't be reworked to be a more ~fun~ mechanic, but as it is, it's fairly well balanced.
Cpt Fina The Tuskers 64	Posted - 2011.10.26 23:10:00 - [55] - Quote Psychotic Monk, you're right. My wording was bad. I should've said that ECM doesn't make small gangs shine in most real engagements, like many likes to think.
ImmutableDark We Hit Women 0	Posted - 2011.10.27 06:19:00 - [56] - Quote Unfortunately you can't get banned for being an idiot.
Cletus Graeme North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 0	Posted - 2011.10.27 18:35:00 - [57] - Quote Just FYI - I'm a skilled ECM pilot who flew Blackbrids and Rooks a lot in my first few years of EvE (Falcons also but not so much) so I'm familiar with the game mechanics and also with the pros & cons . Cpt Fina wrote: ECM needs to be stackingpenalized when multiple modules/drones are used against a single target and/or ECCM needs a significant boost. I think this is the best solution (partly cos I've suggested it myself before on these forums) that I've seen yet to being PERMAJAMMED which is the real problem with ECM. As several people pointed out, once the number of targets > number of jammers there will always be ships that aren't jammed so the larger the fight, the less useful ECM is. However, in solo (by that i mean solo PLAYER rather than solo PILOT) or small gang situations you can focus multiple jammers on a single target to keep them permajammed - This is OP. It's also the reason why Falcon alts are so commonly used - especially in a 1v1 situation. A stacking penalty would mean that it would only ever be worthwhile using 2 jammers per target (not upto 6 as is the case at the moment). The exact penalty would need tweaking to get it properly balanced but it's the right idea - if you limit the number jammers that can be used on a SINGLE target then permajamming becomes less common and targets have a chance to fight back at least some of the time during a fight. CCP should also remove ECM drones completely as there is really no need for them to be in the game at all and too many ships are able to forego the DPS provided by combat drones in favour of being able to jam their target with ECM drones. Because it is chanced based ECM is a complex ewar to balance properly - ECM drones prove just how imbalanced things can get.
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 7	Posted - 2011.10.28 00:25:00 - [58] - Quote Cloora wrote: I would also like to point out, what other form of Electronic Warfare requires you to use 6-8 slots for those modules to be effective? My Falcon has a two slot armor tank and a prop mod. It can't do anything else except scan stuff down. When is the last time you saw a Lachesis with 3 damps and 3 points? Or a Curse with 4 TDs plus it's 3 or 4 nuets? Heck my Pilgrim only uses one TD and it can avoid any turrets DPS from any medium guns or larger 1. ECM uses 6-8 slots to be effective against multiple targets. With other recons you will need to dedicate multiple ewar mods to the same target to shut them down (multiple neuts, multiple webs, multiple [lol] damps). Even then they won't be as neutered as they would be when targeted with ECM. 2. Gallente recons use 3+ points a lot. 2 is the bare minimum (1 scram/1 long point at the least) 3. When was the last time you saw damps on anything? You have to use the recon's mid slots left from your disruptors/scrams on damps and then if you want tank you have to armor tank your Lach/Arazu making it even easier to catch which makes damps useless, especially considering you need about 3 dedicated to a single target. I hope you be trollin.
Desudes Pixelmoon The Star League 6	Posted - 2011.10.28 02:32:00 - [59] - Quote I only found ECM useful with heavy tanks and only against small fleets... the time you spend warping in and out, or worse, getting popped due to being tackled with no tank, isn't terribly constructive. I used to perma lock-down 2-4 players with a plated LAR vampire scorp... anything more then 2-4 and you'd need RR or die. plate/EANM/DCU/LAR mostly repped drone damage while nos kept your jammers and LAR going. The main benefit was you don't need fuckall SP to do it but of course you're slow as hell so if you can't tank it you pop like a semi-weak tanked dps ship. The problem with ECM boats is: if it doesn't work, you die. If it does work, he dies. But isn't that EVE? FOR THE DESU!!!
Jamradar Autocannons Anonymous 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 11:02:00 - [60] - Quote Desudes wrote: I only found ECM useful with heavy tanks and only against small fleets... the time you spend warping in and out, or worse, getting popped due to being tackled with no tank, isn't terribly constructive. I used to perma lock-down 2-4 players with a plated LAR vampire scorp... anything more then 2-4 and you'd need RR or die. plate/EANM/DCU/LAR mostly repped drone damage while nos kept your jammers and LAR going. The main benefit was you don't need fuckall SP to do it but of course you're slow as hell so if you can't tank it you pop like a semi-weak tanked dps ship. The problem with ECM boats is: if it doesn't work, you die. If it does work, he dies. But isn't that EVE? pretty much this. I don't get what all the moaning and fussing is about. ECM is rolling dice, the t2/higher sp pilots just have more loaded dices, doesn't mean there's gonna be wins on every roll. Unless you got prior intel or your enemies are VERY predictable, you're not gonna have all the right ecm racials fitted in a fight, and that potentially brings down your jam capabilities. Let's not forget ecm boats are usually much more thinner (and much higher on primary calling) than other ships with range being their biggest tank. So yes, if you can jam people beyond their falloff and they arn't exactly fast movers, then you pretty much dictate the field. But if you're not gonna encounter that kind of fight every time you take your ecm boat out for a spin. But yes, I can see how a small gang with a rook can possibly dominate 5 nanocanes. Then again, it was designed to dominate against that small a group of targets. Also, here's a little secret to all the ecm haters: There are legit and clever ways to push ecm pilots off field, all it takes is some observation.



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