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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.28 13:07:00 -
[1]
gosh , I haven't read half of this post. But here is my opinion.
XF didn't work. It was anarchy : We had all these bodies of various kinds and grinding long meetings about this that and the other but at the end of the day most of XF achievements where simply down to hard work of small groups within XF doing what they thought was right.
I remember putting the cash together for the now fabled HED-GP pos. I did that largely myself off my own back hoping that others would follow suit and do for XF without all the bull****. At the end of the day I was told by the XF leadership it was a big waste of time I gained a few contributions from individual members for this infrastructure but for the most part the leadership saw it as an afront to their suppsoed superiority.
The damn thing (XF) was perpetually paralyzed by people who wanted to do the political process and have these long grinding meetings ( bit like any bickering middle management in any company in rl) but these people had no means/ no inclination to make things happen. Motions would get voted on but noone would actually pick up the ball and do something about it. When nothing would happen the same damn motion made it back into the motion list and again it would not get inacted.
Now with ASCN we have central leadership with all the warts included. ASCN is a solid performer in every field especially construction. If people aren't going to commit to ASCN they get a stern telling off. Which is as things should be. XF was a great big anarchist gyppo camp in comparision.
XF failed because everyone was free it was a totally level playing field and there was no effective executor of the wishes of the people. No-one to effectively tell people what to do with an 'or else' clause. You could easily do your own thing but geting the allaince to do anything as a group was a nightmare.
If democracy is ever going to work in this game the alliance that does it will need an effective 'chief whip' to get stuff going otherwise dictatorships are allways gonna win over because people are told what to do.
As for people in XF not making it into ASCN, there have been plenty of opportunities. Many of the corps in impass and feyth made it in. Its not that difficult to join as an individual although corps have had a harder time in joining. I am sure most of the corps that where perceived to be running in the Cronhx and Druid gangs where offered a position in ASCN.
What I didn't like about the formation of ASCN was all the divisions that happened afterwards. The NBSI split could of maybe been managed better. I obviously have flown with some people that are now NBSI and they where solid chaps.
I remember waving to some Pilots of Honor in immensea on may way back to Impass from cache/geminate on the eve of the -5- war. Not realising that perhaps it would be the last time I would ever convo those guys and now the game moves on and they are on teh other side of the fence. Its a shame all those inter-XF relationships are now largely moot.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.28 16:28:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Ka Sei
Originally by: Elenia Kheynes
Nepreta, I think the poster is complaining about how ASCN corps left XF 
I don't think he cares much for the reasons behind it 
Thanks you you saved me writing a much longer explanation. If you dont read any of the last 3 pages of posts please read the last one by me on the thread before you post anything else.
There is no point picking over half facts that noone can possibly ever turn into a full truth.
Sounds like you got a poor deal. EVE is renowned for being a bit of a 'cruel game'. But hey cheer up you are still playing! Enjoy what follows!
Elenia Kheynes, where you in XF? If you ever read up on XF forums I was always giving away free ships in empire and I gave a POS in HED-GP during the CA war (which setting up turned out to be a one of the biggest events in XF) So don't be bitter with me about XF/ASCN I gave it my all when I was in it. As did many other Ascnenians I might add!
Every dog has its day and lets all remember XF for the good times we all had! The great CA war, the wonderfull T2 market , the sense of freedom not to mention moral superiority all XF guys had. Yeah it ended pretty poorly ( but no allaince dies well in this game , bet there are still people bemoaning the loss of CA!) and its a shame but chin up lots of exciting new adventures face us all in the depths of space!
SHARE AND ENJOY!
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.28 17:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Elenia Kheynes
Originally by: Nepereta
Elenia Kheynes, where you in XF? If you ever read up on XF forums I was always giving away free ships in empire and I gave a POS in HED-GP during the CA war (which setting up turned out to be a one of the biggest events in XF) So don't be bitter with me about XF/ASCN I gave it my all when I was in it. As did many other Ascnenians I might add!
Every dog has its day and lets all remember XF for the good times we all had! The great CA war, the wonderfull T2 market , the sense of freedom not to mention moral superiority all XF guys had. Yeah it ended pretty poorly ( but no allaince dies well in this game , bet there are still people bemoaning the loss of CA!) and its a shame but chin up lots of exciting new adventures face us all in the depths of space!
SHARE AND ENJOY!
<- olyyy
Have you forgotten me Nepreta ? 
Sorry dude, didn't know this was your alt.
Anyways, I remember on the brink of teh -5- war when there was a TS meeting you where telling everyone not to underestimate ATUK. How right you where!
XF at the time was chocker with hubris and inflated sense of superiority at a bunch people we thought where just x-CA under a different banner. Not much fun in saying 'I told you so' when a whole allaince dies.
XF was full of many good times, I can understand some sadness at its end felt by many.
But do you think olyyy that XF went sour after the CA war? We gained lots of new members and just somehow lost our identity at some point. We also thought we where stronger than we actually where because of all the fat we slapped onto XF after the CA war.
Also the meetings that started quite small became unmanageable with so many disparate corps so many voices just created a noise.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.28 19:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am
I like this thread for a very simple reason. Apart from the usual alts and trolls we are getting some nice posts from people on both sides. Some bias is to be expected and also justified, but a lot of pilots are actually making sense.
This has got to be a real breakthrough in these forums,keep it up.
P.S. Cool fight this evening outside the Prometheus outpost and quiet local is always a bonus 
I'm still surprised though as to why the rest of you guys didn't undock to drive us away. You would outnumber us by a healthy margin to make us run for the hills,probably even manage to get Painball's tempest before he could warp. The only complaint i have is that all the cool uber named mods on that ship we killed didn't survive 
Well we where all on the same side once dude, we had similiar ideals and the rest of it! ASCN did paint some good PvPers (NBSI) with the same brush as the useless empire hugging bloatware we gained after the CA war simply because they didn't live in Impass or Feyth and we didn't know too much about what was going on outside our territory. As I said before I flew thru immensea on my way to impass and never saw an NBSI as blue ever again.
I wish we could put it all behind us at for a while for old times sake. Trouble is I think the same old political faces just want to argue like every saturday/sunday in the XF meetings grr... anyone here remember Sandokhan at the TS meetings?
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.28 20:39:00 -
[5]
our creation obviously to the eyes of many of our XF siblings leaves a lot to be desired. However I don't believe for one moment we are the ebil allaince you guys make us out to be. We still have the obsession with civilisation and wealth that XF had and we aren't an agressor allaince ( we haven't conquered anything we haven't given back). Those 2 facts should speak volumes to all the detractors.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:47:00 -
[6]
ASCN isn't at fault there are two entities which destroyed XF
1. the dreaded SANDOKAN: he destroyed any hope of having a saturday meeting that wasn't filled with 95% of his inane wittering on. If one player can be attributed all the faults of XF politics this man is it.
2. -5-: arguably the toughest PvP allaince at the time.
Everyone else where just the victims. Little Rabbits in the headlights of these juggernaughts.
I can only say thank you to Cyvok and SteelRat for allowing me to continue the rich 0.0 existance to which I have become accustomed and I can only say sorry to all the NBSI dudes who think we betrayed them.
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