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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
776
   |
Posted - 2013.07.01 12:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Tobias Hareka wrote:Norian Lonark wrote:Seems it was obviously intended as a joke, it may cause offence but lots of people make jokes about things that people would find offensive and do not get put in jail. When was the last time you read newspaper or watched news from TV? This should always be taken seriously. Joke or not. You just can't go to airport, shout you have bomb in your backpack -> "Dude! It was a joke!". That's a pretty extreme example. Airports may actually be a special thing, especially in the states. But I sure as hell can say to someone in real life that I'm gonna shoot up a school, laugh about it and say "just kidding" without the cops coming and locking me up. Freedom of speech.
Afraid not you need to look up freedom.
Freedom to do something means there will be no repercussions from the government for your actions.
If there are repercussions like going to jail or receiving a fine your actions are not free.
Example - you can talk about hating your government all you want. (Freedom of speech)
Now if you start talking about killing your leader you are no longer talking but now implying a possible action and that can have repercussions.
Too many people/companies (especially news agencies) believe freedom gives them the right to be irresponsible it doesn't.
Your are responsible for your actions, and can be punished if you cross the line.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
777
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 13:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Simetraz wrote:Bischopt wrote:Tobias Hareka wrote:Norian Lonark wrote:Seems it was obviously intended as a joke, it may cause offence but lots of people make jokes about things that people would find offensive and do not get put in jail. When was the last time you read newspaper or watched news from TV? This should always be taken seriously. Joke or not. You just can't go to airport, shout you have bomb in your backpack -> "Dude! It was a joke!". That's a pretty extreme example. Airports may actually be a special thing, especially in the states. But I sure as hell can say to someone in real life that I'm gonna shoot up a school, laugh about it and say "just kidding" without the cops coming and locking me up. Freedom of speech. Afraid not you need to look up freedom. Freedom to do something means there will be no repercussions from the government for your actions. If there are repercussions like going to jail or receiving a fine your actions are not free. Example - you can talk about hating your government all you want. (Freedom of speech) Now if you start talking about killing your leader you are no longer talking but now implying a possible action and that can have repercussions. Too many people/companies (especially news agencies) believe freedom gives them the right to be irresponsible it doesn't. Your are responsible for your actions, and can be punished if you cross the line. Prison. For words. We just went back in time.
Not back in time, it has never changed.
You must dress a certain way when at work.
You can't say certain things to your boss or you get fired.
You can't do certain things while in public.
The list goes on and on.
The internet allows people to say things they would never say if they were face to face.
Is that a good or bad thing.
A little of both perhaps.
In this case the kid would have been better off saying it face to face.
Keep in mind the written word has always been a binding contract, so saying something out loud does not always have the same consequences as putting it down on paper.
And that is the catch 22 so to speak with the internet.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
778
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 13:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Simetraz wrote:
Not back in time, it has never changed.
You must dress a certain way when at work.
You can't say certain things to your boss or you get fired.
You can't do certain things while in public.
The list goes on and on.
The internet allows people to say things they would never say if they were face to face.
Is that a good or bad thing.
A little of both perhaps.
In this case the kid would have been better off saying it face to face.
Keep in mind the written word has always been a binding contract, so saying something out loud does not always have the same consequences as putting it down on paper.
And that is the catch 22 so to speak with the internet.
Like I've said, looking into threats can be a good thing. Throwing people into prison for them is not a good thing. Even if you don't care about the life (or lives) being ruined by bad law(?) enforcement, do you really think as a tax-payer that this is a good idea? If we start putting everyone in prison who has made a violent joke on the internet, all prisons in all the world will see a spike of new inmates every one of which take tax money to keep alive and well. I agree that actions have consequeces, but is 8 years in prison really the right consequece for this particular action? I think not. I hope you think not as well. Altho I don't really care what you think.
I this case a private citizen filed charges against a person.
The police by law can't ignore it, they have to investigate.
Obviously they found enough evidence to arrest him and he goes to trial, and now the courts have to decide if he guilty or just foolish.
3 things could have prevented the entire incident.
1 - The kid could have used good judgement (which he didn't or maybe he wasn't joking now wouldn't that be a twist)
2 - The lady could have done nothing, she had to fill out all kinds of paperwork to get the police to respond (think about that)
3 - Change the law to give the police more power to ignore the law and do whatever they want (now that is not a good idea)
Last as other have stated the guy is NOT serving a 8 year sentence he is awaiting trial, nothing more.
He is still innocent as it stands right now.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
778
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 13:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hessian Arcturus wrote:
Innocent but has been incarcerated for months while his date of his trial was to be decided and come around. Everyone at some point has said something sarcastically that they shouldn't have...
And yeah he's finding out today if he gets a jail sentance. Personally I hope not because if it carries on, it will eventually bring about stricter laws and monitering of games. Look at all the sensorship laws at the minute, there was uproar because the xbox kinect thing "watches" you. Imagine what will happen if thing like this carry on.
This was a case of players monitoring other players.
OR perhaps this was a case of a mother monitoring a 9 year old playing a game.
Perhaps the guys comments upset this 9 year old which prompted the mother to act.
There might be a lot more to this then a simple joke.
Did your ever get into trouble for swearing as a kid or did you ever get into trouble for saying the wrong thing to your parents ?
If you did those where supposed to be a lesson about thinking before you open your mouth.
Obviously this kid did not get the lesson.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
778
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 14:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Simetraz wrote:This was a case of players monitoring other players.
OR perhaps this was a case of a mother monitoring a 9 year old playing a game.
Perhaps the guys comments upset this 9 year old which prompted the mother to act.
There might be a lot more to this then a simple joke.
Did you ever get into trouble for swearing as a kid or did you ever get into trouble for saying the wrong thing to your parents ?
If you did those where supposed to be a lesson about thinking before you open your mouth.
Obviously this kid did not get the lesson.
The fact is that we are surrounded by morbid humor on a constant basis. It's been that way for a very long time, and the internet has only fueled such. I mean, ffs, do you remember the "you give love a bat name" meme that was going around after the theater shooting in Colorado? No one ever gets punished for black humor, so why would anyone think that their joke is but so far out of the ordinary? Was it in bad taste? Sure. But if jokes in bad taste were a criminal offense, I could think of a whooooole lot of people who should be in prison right now.
Maybe but joke are tailored to an audience.
You don't make certain jokes when children are present.\
You don't make racial jokes where you might bet your ass kicked.
The internet and internet games are a party line you don't know is listening.
How many corps in EVE are adult only, there is a reason for this.
I forgot how many times we had to what what we said in vent cause someone stated there kid was in the room.
Not a problem and we thanked them for letting us know.
This is not a hard concept to grasp or has courtesy gone out the window.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
778
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 14:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Simetraz wrote:
Last as other have stated the guy is NOT serving a 8 year sentence he is awaiting trial, nothing more.
He is still innocent as it stands right now.
True, but the justice system being what it is in the US, the kid could end up sitting in jail for years while technically innocent. Jails are huge buildings where hundreds or even thousands of technically innocent people spend their time waiting for trial. Many of those people are stuck there because the system is too clogged up or somehow obstructed for the case to go to court. It's just as good as being in prison. Same thing for the tax-payers, same thing for the person who's locked up. The fact that you're considered innocent in the eyes of the law is little consolation when you're confined to a cell with no idea when you might be getting out.
I won't argue the system of speedy justice is well defunct and needs to be fixed.
I seriously doubt this kid is a flight risk so he should be out on bail by now, makes me wonder what is going on there with that.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
778
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 14:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Simetraz wrote:
Maybe but joke are tailored to an audience.
You don't make certain jokes when children are present.\
You don't make racial jokes where you might bet your ass kicked.
The internet and internet games are a party line you don't know is listening.
How many corps in EVE are adult only, there is a reason for this.
I forgot how many times we had to what what we said in vent cause someone stated there kid was in the room.
Not a problem and we thanked them for letting us know.
This is not a hard concept to grasp or has courtesy gone out the window.
That's the other issue with the internet anonymity thing. You don't know who YOU are talking to when you say things. If you did, pedobears would never get caught up by FBI agents. Did that guy know his joke was aimed at a very young person? I have no idea, but I am willing to bet not. I have found that in online video games, people are often rather shocked at the age spread of those they play with when/if they find out. I've played games with people as young as 8 (kid was a damned good enhancement shaman too) and guys as old as their 70s (most of those have actually been in Eve). Do you always ask the stats of a person you are talking to before making a joke? If so, you're probably known as the corp/guild creeper.
That is right you don't know who is listening so you watch what you say.
Just like you do at work or in front of a cop or sometimes in public.
I may be sitting at home right now in private, but this discussion is VERY public.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 14:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Simetraz wrote:
That is right you don't know who is listening so you watch what you say.
Just like you do at work or in front of a cop or sometimes in public.
I may be sitting at home right now in private, but this discussion is VERY public.
You are correct, and that is both a blessing and a curse. All I can do is speak out in hopes of lightening the curse aspect. I feel the way I do, because I have been where that guy is right now, just without the jail aspect. Some people don't know how to take sadistic humor, and that has caused me more than one problem. Do some people dislike me for the things I say? I'm sure they do. Does that really affect me? Not at all. However, as soon as I have police kicking in my door over a joke that put no one in direct harm's way (unlike where the smartass pointed out the "fire" in an airport example earlier, as that causes panic, and panicked people are much like panicked cattle), then something has gone very wrong in someone mind, and it isn't my own.
You need more friends or stay close to them.
They watch over you when you drink to much.
They are there when you need a hand.
They will prevent you from chatting up the wrong person.
They will laugh at your sadistic humor 
but remember friends have a sense of humor as well and paybacks tend to be a lot harsher among friends.
Parents teach there kids to be careful of strangers, well that doesn't change when you are an adult.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 15:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
I beg to differ the REAL threat.
Deer-vehicle collisions in the U.S. cause about 200 fatalities annually
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 15:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:War Kitten wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Oh, and he did not say it in public. He said it in a PM channel.
Or do you feel that anything you say via the internet is in the public forum?
Potentially, yes it could be. Presumably, none of us were in that channel, yet somehow we all know what was said. Yep, public. You might want it to be private, but assuming it is would be tremendously naive. At the time, no it wouldn't. For example, any text messages that you send would be assumed private. That doesn't mean that logs of them won't get leaked into the public forum one day. Hell, even government cables which were supposed to be all kinds of confidential and private are now all over the place. So, if you acknowledge that just because something may one day be public means that it should always be considered public, then you are basically saying that all privacy laws should be done away with, because they serve no real purpose.
No a PM message could have 20 people in it.
And to be honest people join games and think the people they play with are their friends.
In most cases they are NOT, they are close acquaintances at most.
Some may be actual friends but most likely those are the people you met in RL.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 15:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:Don't support surveillance of online communications, and certainly can't support the harshness of this sentence, but the rules are really quite simple, kids. I'll be telling my son this years before he goes online. Don't joke about:
a) Shooting up schools (police knock on your door).
b) Shooting up presidents (FBI knock on your door).
c) Shooting up yourself (firemen knock down your door).
You could just make it simpler by saying threatening someone with harm is not a good idea.
That goes along with never start a fight but make sure you finish it.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 15:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why not there seems to be 2 schools of thought.
The one I listed or Turn the other cheek.
Parents appear to use one or the other.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
780
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 15:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Simetraz wrote:
Why not there seems to be 2 schools of thought.
The one I listed or Turn the other cheek.
Parents appear to use one or the other.
Then there's school three: turn the other cheek, then in one fluid motion, wheel around into a sucker punch. ;)
Believe it or not that falls under "Never start a fight but finish it"
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
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