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Eagle or Cerberus

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ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.11.30 07:42:00 - [1] Originally by: Virxe Cerb. Maxed out missile skills = best dps in game plus you don't have to worry about optimal and all that junk which is a huge +++++ because whatever the other guy has, you can get within or out of it. rofl. That is so incorrect it's not even funny. Cerberus is the LEAST damaging of all the HACs, even in full T2 gank setup. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.11.30 07:51:00 - [2] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 30/11/2005 07:52:26 SiSi is a TEST environment. The Cerb is getting a buff yes, and will likely be par with other HACs after the patch, but dont go comparing a SiSi Cerb's DPS with others just yet. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.11.30 08:34:00 - [3] Originally by: Jim Raynor cerb can do about 345dps with scourge on sisi using 3 t2 bcu, its respectable.. i think a zealot does a lil over 400, including implants and stuff That's good to hear Jim, I'll have to check it out. I wouldn't be surprised to see that change (for the better or worse) but it looks pretty fair as is. I still wish the bonus could apply to all missile types... even if it had to forfeit some firepower. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 09:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK it looks pretty fair as is Yes 19% lower DPS for 1800% more range, no cap use, access to all damage types. You wouldn't know fair if it stabbed you in the face tbh. Also, thats 19% lower dps without implants. Missile implants will come out some day and that gap will be further reduced. I fly a T2 Zealot on my brother's character, don't treat me like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Access to all damage" is a joke. Damage is rather pitiful if you aren't using Scourge, and missiles aren't laser crystals, they take 10 seconds to change. Try doing that in combat, it will usually cost you your ship. All the range on the Cerberus is worthless except for NPCing. With missile skills at level 5, every 8.5 km from you to the target takes a second for your missiles to travel. That doesn't seem like much until you realize that the flight time bonus is worthless; if you fire Heavy missiles from their maximum possible range of 190km, you will wait 22.5 seconds until they impact. Try that in PVP. Heck try firing from any significant range, unless something decides to stick around and attack you, you won't hit anything. Then you'd think, well why isn't the bonus good for NPCing. Because the range on Heavy Missiles without the flight time bonus is still 126km. Never in PVP will you need to be farther than 126km from your target. Have fun picking up cans. From that range, it still is 15 seconds to hit a target, so why does the Cerberus have the flight time bonus? It serves no purpose. Even for light missiles, it really isn't necessary. 19% less damage, and absolutely no tanking ability, along with the inability to do any kind of significant damage versus anything small or moving at high speed (note: absolute velocity not just transversal) is not as desireable as you make it out to be. I hate the fact that CCP tries to make Caldari ships NPC platforms. I didn't train Caldari HAC to fly a Carebearus. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 09:41:00 - [5] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 01/12/2005 09:46:00 Fit a Cerberus with 5 Heavy Missile Launcher IIs with 4 Tech II BCS. Now fit a tank. Now try to use it. Realize you have no cap. Realize you have wonderful kinetic and thermal resists, but a gaping hole in your EM resistance. Now, heck, remove the BCS II. Fit a Large Shield Booster II, a Shield Boost Amp, 2 EM hardners (gotta love that 0% hole) and an Explosive hardner (so that you can actually get resists above 70%). Now notice you have no slot for an afterburner, and the worst capacitor of all HACs. Even fitting 4 PDU II you only place yourself on par with the cap of other tank-fitted HACs. Now realize you don't do more than about 150 DPS. Thanks. I know more about the Cerberus than just about anybody with the exception of perhaps my friend Jim. So if you think I'm losing credibility, perhaps you need to do some research. Start by clicking on my signature. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:03:00 - [6] I've been fooling around with it in SiSi... still looks like EW is the best way to go for the typical Cerb pilot who doesn't have a lot of isk to spend. Oh yeah and the Ishtar on test is nuts. I've got an Ishtar there with 10 sentry drones (5 Drone Control Unit Is) that does 594 DPS at 25km optimal. My brother's Sac took 6 volleys to go into structure with 1 activated armor hardner. Thats about the time it takes to armor rep ONCE. And people complain about the Cerb doing over 300 DPS. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:11:00 - [7] The only reason a Cerb works well with Gisti equip is because it saves it from losing its cap in seconds. I don't think a ship should need officer equip to be on par with those fitting Tech II. As it stands, the stats on SiSi can very well change. Its a test environment. To be honest, I'd rather not see the Cerb be a run-of-the mill HAC. I'd like to see it have a bonus to reload rates or some such instead of a flight time bonus, and a damage mod that applies to all missiles (even if the missile DPS has to be kept the way it is now on TQ) and make it have its own niche as a versatile damage dealer. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 01/12/2005 10:06:31 I've been fooling around with it in SiSi... still looks like EW is the best way to go for the typical Cerb pilot who doesn't have a lot of isk to spend. Oh yeah and the Ishtar on test is nuts. I've got an Ishtar there with 10 sentry drones (5 Drone Control Unit Is) that does 594 DPS at 25km optimal. My brother's Sac took 6 volleys to go into structure with 1 activated armor hardner. Thats about the time it takes to armor rep ONCE. And people complain about the Cerb doing over 300 DPS. Edit- To the poster above, don't insult me. I'm aware of the effectiveness of a large Gisti, but I don't have ridiculous amounts of isk to spend. Thats why my Cerb setups have always favored EW in PVP, and traditional Large Booster II setups for NPC ratting. It is only insulting if what you posted at the start of this post was boasting :) There is no Large gisti :) There are CHEAP large shield extenders and there are expensive gisti shield boosters... NOTE: the armor equivalent of which are almost non-existant and if available cost just about 10x what a gisti does. There are indeed Gist Large shield boosters. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:23:00 - [9] I'm aware of that, I just don't fit that on a Cerb because I don't have isk to flush. Standard tank for NPC and EW for PVP. Fit a Cerb with a few tracking disrupters and pick your targets carefully. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.12.01 21:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Nekhad Jormuzzar Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK All the range on the Cerberus is worthless except for NPCing. Nonsense. It's a quite valuable asset. First and foremost because you don't need to spend energy and time getting close. It's also great in specific situations. For example, I've seen a single Cerb force a gang of 3 HACs and 2 inties to withdraw from a station camp, just by lobbing missiles at 170 km. It takes about 40 seconds for an Inty to travel that distance, 20 of those seconds before the heavy missiles start to impact. Thus, the Cerb can only get off a couple salvos before the inties catch up to it. And if it has to warp off, any remaining salvos are going to coast off into space. A few salvos of heavy missiles won't do any significant damage to an HAC or interceptor. Jim does have a fair point though. If Assault missiles are short enough range, the flight time bonus could finally become more useful. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula

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