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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:23:00 -
[1]
Anyone think that...
10% fighter drone damage per level
is FAAAAR better then
5% armor resists per level
5% shield resists per level
is FAAAAR better then
5% reduction in shield and transfer duration per level
Why does Gallente get 150% more damage (and when we are talking about 20-25 fighters thats a TON more damage) then the other dreads, and the minmatar get the shaft with a bonus to transfer duration, when i imagine most carriers will be packing the drone control units in the highs.
i propose that the gal bonus gets reduced to 5% damage per level and the minmatar gets something useful like 5% increase in velocity or 5% shield boost ammount.
Why reduce the gal bonus?
Well you can duplicate any of the other races bonuses by simply fitting a module to compensate. Caldari can be achieved by a invul field, Amarr by a Energized adaptive nano II. Gal however would require at least 3 Drone damage mods IIs to get to the same damage bonus gallente have.
Alternatively...
How about 10% to racial damage? so Amarr get +10% to EM fighter drone damage, gallente get +10% thermal etc.
_______________________________________________
 Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Darpz
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:26:00 -
[2]
anyone got any cheese for this man?
also cans one post screenies of stats for these and motherships, I want to see and don't feel like getting the patch for test server
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Siro
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:31:00 -
[3]
is this a nerf thread before they're even out?
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:38:00 -
[4]
Expect lots of replies saying "Because Gallente are the Drone race, Minmatar Carriers are SUPPOSED to suck."
Not that I was ever going to fly a Carrier but.. I guess its one less reason to stick to Minmatar ships. 
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:43:00 -
[5]
Do we have any pictures of the Carrier stats yet?
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:48:00 -
[6]
No its a balance thread before they are out.
Dont believe me? heres some numbers
Firbolg damage against shields
((50 Therm * 3 (Damage mod) * 2 (Drone Interfacing))* 0.8 (Resist)) + ((25 Kin * 3 * 2) * 0.6) = 330 Damage every 5.25 seconds.
330 * 1.4 (L4 carrier skill) = 462 (495 with L5)
462 * 10 (L4 carrier + 1 drone control unit) = 4620 damage every 5.25 seconds on Gal carrier, this isnt even mother ship.
Thats 1320 more damage then any other carrier using the same drones per shot.
Mothership the bonus gets even more out of hand.
Considering max skills, and max drones.
495 * 25 = 12375 damage/5.25 seconds = 2357.1... damage/sec.
as to other motherships...
330 * 25 = 8250 damage/5.25 seconds = 1571.4... damage/sec.
That is a huge difference in damage. If you stack it with Drone damage mods as well... it gets even more out of hand.
Nerf? No, id just rather all races get a damage bonus.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:50:00 -
[7]
Yeah, but you must have got those stats from somewhere. Can you not get screenies of the Carriers/Motherships and fighters?
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:53:00 -
[8]
How about you wait till the bonuses on the ships are final before whining 
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Mowz
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Posted - 2005.11.30 18:54:00 -
[9]
Ok I'm gonna post this just to prove I'm a man of my word.
Gallente are the drone race.
Gallente should have the best carrier by a LARGE margin because carriers are primarily drone ships and if you wanted to fly drone ships you should have been training gallente to this point anyway.
If you want to complain about your race being overnerfed then focus on what your strengths are supposed to be and ask that they be boosted.
P.S. I have never and will never fly gallente ships. Please leave all non-manticore bombers with 2 turrets. That is all.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild
Expect lots of replies saying "Because Gallente are the Drone race, Minmatar Carriers are SUPPOSED to suck."
Not that I was ever going to fly a Carrier but.. I guess its one less reason to stick to Minmatar ships.
I'll have the first part of that italic. On the second part: isn't that +5% transfer and local shield duration? That's not too bad, ya know.
Oh, and I'll have an "I told you so", but I'm wondering how flamed I'd get if I dropped it in the Stealth Bomber thred.
As to the OP: NO, I do not think it's faaaaar better than the two +5% resist carriers. You're in a Carrier. You're going to be a huge target. And also... you know those fighers... they're about as survivable as untanked cruisers, are they not? It's better, slightly. While the Gallente does 50% more damage, the others tank atleast 25% better. In a patch where tanking over ganking is the objective. Atleast you've got a chance of surviving when yer drones are dead.
The minnie bonus might need a) an explanation and/or b) a boost to atleast 7.5% AMOUNT instead of duration
So. When are these forums going live in game? |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: KilROCK
How about you wait till the bonuses on the ships are final before whining
How about we complain now before they are finalized, so they arent finalized in something totally unbalanced that makes 1 races carrier (minmatar) totally useless, and 1 races carrier (gallente) totally dominant.
I dont mind Gal being strongest, but id rather not see minmatar get yet another ****ty capital ship. I mean ffs i dont even fly minmatar but their XL guns do the least dps. Whats the minny supposed to get in Capital ships? the 10m/s bonus to speed? ffs thats nothing useful.
Change the damage to the race damage for each carrier and walla. Gal still do the most DPS cause they will be focusing on the gal fighters which do the most DPS anyways, and all carriers are still useful.
This isnt like elite frigs, where switching to another race only takes a week. This is BS 5 requirement which is a long skill. There should be some bloody measure of balance.
Its not like 1 Titan totally kicks the crap outta all the other ones.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:09:00 -
[12]
For the last time... how are we supposed to make an informed decision if we can't see the whole ship info listing?
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Zeddicus Zu'l
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:09:00 -
[13]
I would reply about this but as others have mentioned above, how about we get some stats on the carriers and the fighters posted.
What you see typed in this thread is all I can see right now (at work forum ***** 4tw) since I can not even thing about installing eve on the computer i am using let alone log into the test server.
Maybe if I knew more about the carriers, I would be able to agree or disagree with the original post. until then I guess ill have to wait like half the other people that have posted in this thread.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:16:00 -
[14]
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/11/2005 19:16:17
Originally by: Foomanshoe
Originally by: KilROCK
How about you wait till the bonuses on the ships are final before whining
How about we complain now before they are finalized, so they arent finalized in something totally unbalanced that makes 1 races carrier (minmatar) totally useless, and 1 races carrier (gallente) totally dominant.
That's how the game is. Gallente are the drone race, minmatar arent. Who cares, i know i don't and im minmatar.
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Frezik
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:17:00 -
[15]
I see carriers as having a more specialized purpose: getting a fleet deep in enemy territory using jump drives. They're not the primary damage dealer in the fleet, but rather play a more specialized role.
Given that, I'll take a tank bonus over drones.
----
"Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.11.30 19:17:00 -
[16]
I rate this topic 1/10...
Wait till you see the ships on TQ... for now you are allowed to whine about dreads and stealth bombers.
LIST YOU CAN WHINE ABOUT:
-stealth bombers
-anathema
-AFs
-megathron
-dreads
-too good intys
-...
But you don't really have to :)
Originally by: WildCard
"NOW Flyzone"
before
after
Be back in a year or so |
deathfighter
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Posted - 2005.11.30 21:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: deathfighter on 30/11/2005 21:04:07
It all depends if there are going to be capital remote repairs and capitar remote shiled boosters' otherise the minie bonus is very lame.
I don't think it can be fixed by whining about galante wich is fine imo.
If carriers have decent lock times than the duration bonus is very nice. If their targeting is anthing close to that of dreads than it's a useless bonus because by the time u target a friendly bs it is already dead.
I was thinking of the carrier being able to support a group fo dreads in killing heavy defended poses. Right now the large remote repair has a range of 8km. at lvl 5 bonus is 250% wich brings it to 28km. sience carrier doesn't have siege mode it cannont help any dreads with reps and shield boosting.
it will all change when capital remotes comeout. i am excpecting them to have a longer range in witch the mothership/carrier bonus will make sense. Death-
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.11.30 21:18:00 -
[18]
everybody crying about the minmatar bonus needs to take a look at the stats of the capital remote shield/energy transfers then stop crying :p
a group of those working together will be invincible
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.11.30 23:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: KilROCK
That's how the game is. Gallente are the drone race, minmatar arent. Who cares, i know i don't and im minmatar.
But then why even have a Minmatar ship if its completely and utterly useless? Even the Minmatar will just train Gallente carriers then.
I think it's a good idea to comment on stats now before they're finalized. I mean, it really seems like people are saying: "Yeah, it's going to really suck... but we have to wait until its out before we can say it sucks."
This is just shear madness... that's like starting construction on building and saying: "Well, we'll wait for it to fall over before we correct the error we made."
But I will agree with others that we need more info on the carriers in order to comment on what's the best solution and whether or not one is needed.
-----------------------------------------------
ōąquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Com Cam
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Posted - 2005.11.30 23:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mowz
Ok I'm gonna post this just to prove I'm a man of my word.
Gallente are the drone race.
Gallente should have the best carrier by a LARGE margin because carriers are primarily drone ships and if you wanted to fly drone ships you should have been training gallente to this point anyway.
If you want to complain about your race being overnerfed then focus on what your strengths are supposed to be and ask that they be boosted.
P.S. I have never and will never fly gallente ships. Please leave all non-manticore bombers with 2 turrets. That is all.
Not trying to start a flame war nor am I trying to start any other kind of arguments...BUT, I could point you to a thread about stealth bombers and people crying because Caldari's Manticor has 3 Cruise Missile Launcher slots. They are crying that ALL races need / should have the same number of slots. Some pilots countered this by stating Caldari are "Missile Specialists." Is this not along the same lines as that?
Also, why not allow the Devs to get the stats on the ships, get the ships into testing, and get the ships ready to be critiqued. Sort of makes you wonder how many changes a ship goes through BEFORE it is put on the servers?
Have a nice day and fly safe 
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:00:00 -
[21]
Edited by: KilROCK on 01/12/2005 00:01:18
If you started reading the bonuses, you'd notice motherships are for gang assist/Repairing others.
Minmatar is stellar in that category. It can still do damage, and repair others better than any other Motherships.
If you look at the ROF on the remote shield/armor repairer/transporter, you'd see that.
Capital modules have slow ROF and the minmatar mothership has bonus that will make it the best at that. + being able to run a 5 lows armor rep, 5 gang assist and 2 med slots for something good.
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Laocoon
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:00:00 -
[22]
and wtf are you on about 25 fighters? fighters = drones. max drones = 5... (5 does NOT = 25 )
---------------
^^ i collect heads
Originally by: Oveur
Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnoug |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Laocoon
and wtf are you on about 25 fighters? fighters = drones. max drones = 5... (5 does NOT = 25 )
3 drone bonus per level at level 5, thats 15, drone 5 is 5 drones. 5+15 = 20 fighters. But i doubt carriers have enough dronebay because fighters 'should' take more m3 in their dronebays..
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:06:00 -
[24]
"and wtf are you on about 25 fighters? fighters = drones. max drones = 5... (5 does NOT = 25 )"
five fighters for basic drone users, from Drones skill
five fighters for control modules in their high slots
fifteen for Carrier bonus, as it is +3 per level
One Mothership to rule them all,
in the Land of Lag where the Whines lie.
:s
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: j0sephine
"and wtf are you on about 25 fighters? fighters = drones. max drones = 5... (5 does NOT = 25 )"
five fighters for basic drone users, from Drones skill
five fighters for control modules in their high slots
fifteen for Carrier bonus, as it is +3 per level
One Mothership to rule them all,
in the Land of Lag where the Whines lie.
:s
If every mothership uses 5 +1 module, i'd say that's a shame for their logistic abilities.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:11:00 -
[26]
"If every mothership uses 5 +1 module, i'd say that's a shame for their logistic abilities."
Well, no idea if every of them is going to fit that, but it is the theoretical upper limit. Although then again, not sure if drones and fighters are considered exactly the same thing, that is if the control module actually affects fighter amount limit. ^^;
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:11:00 -
[27]
to clear up on the fighters part a little, they take 5000 m3 of space each and the smaller carriers have around 80,000 m3 of drone bay (that being 16 fighters). I have no clue if the drone control module will allow a carrier to have more fighters or not.
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:13:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 01/12/2005 00:15:28
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 01/12/2005 00:05:40
Originally by: Laocoon
and wtf are you on about 25 fighters? fighters = drones. max drones = 5... (5 does NOT = 25 )
3 drone bonus per level at level 5, thats 15, drone 5 is 5 drones. 5+15 = 20 fighters. But i doubt carriers have enough dronebay because fighters 'should' take more m3 in their dronebays..
His whole math is wrong.
Next time take in:
100% drone damage from drone interfacing - 5
Heavy drone 5 - 25%
Fighter skill 5 - 25%
Fighters currently take up 5000m3. Motherships have a 100,000 m3 drone bay. 20 fighters anyone?  Not to mention the fighters are about as beefy as all the tech 1 cruisers... So basically in the end you have 20 fighters flying around you doing some seriously nice damage and at the same time they are about as hard to kill as a cruiser. Not to mention they cost almost the same as a cruiser to build....
Edit.. Woops missed a 0 in there.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: KilROCK on 01/12/2005 00:16:01
Well, while it seems the good thing to do, to go ALL gank with 5 +1 drone module and 1 Large remote armor rep.
I'd love to see them do something better than just killing everything with a massive ammount of laggy uber drones...
I'll wait till they are final to see how much drones they can carry.. Right now im not even sure how much dronebay they have or whats the size of a fighter drone..
See the two poster above, two different size.
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:22:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 01/12/2005 00:24:11
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 01/12/2005 00:16:01
Well, while it seems the good thing to do, to go ALL gank with 5 +1 drone module and 1 Large remote armor rep.
I'd love to see them do something better than just killing everything with a massive ammount of laggy uber drones...
I'll wait till they are final to see how much drones they can carry.. Right now im not even sure how much dronebay they have or whats the size of a fighter drone..
See the two poster above, two different size.
Its 5000m3 per fighter.
Gally mothership has 250,000 m3 drone bay.
Minie with a 225,000m3 drone bay.
Both amarr and caldari with 200,000m3 drone bay.
Thats 50 fighters in the gally one and 45 in the minie one and 40 in the caldari and amarr. Not to mention the space needed for cruisers and other variety of vessels youll need for your pilots that clone hop to you.
Edit the Carriers have smaller ones but in about the same proportions.
20 for gally.
18 for minie.
16 for amarr and caldari.
Not to mention the motherships will cost about 10 billion to build or more. Normal carriers will be about the same cost as a dread.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Lacero Callrisian
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:23:00 -
[31]
50 fighters in the drone bay? It can spam them all day, and if the fleet has a minmitar titan for the -37.5% sig radius they'll be a pain to hit.
Do you think that sig reduction bonus affects fighters?
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:30:00 -
[32]
Hmmm mothership and titans can't dock? So.... if they get into structure damage..... They can't repair it? Or can they refit their own fitting in space LOL
Someone just told me they couldn't dock...
Must be a joke...
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:35:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 01/12/2005 00:35:43
Originally by: KilROCK
Hmmm mothership and titans can't dock? So.... if they get into structure damage..... They can't repair it? Or can they refit their own fitting in space LOL
Someone just told me they couldn't dock...
Must be a joke...
Titans cant dock... Not in normal stations at least because they are basically mobile stations. And yes they maybe able to refit in space just like your corp mates will be able to with the motherships. They can just refit while in space and dump the stuff in the corp hanger(that is on board.) As well as clone directly to the mothership. Thats at least what i know of.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:35:00 -
[34]
"Someone just told me they couldn't dock...
Must be a joke..."
According to the latest TomB's dev blog, they can't.
Think there's remote structure repairers now on SiSi, though... o.O
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Someone just told me they couldn't dock...
Must be a joke..."
According to the latest TomB's dev blog, they can't.
Think there's remote structure repairers now on SiSi, though... o.O
Laughing my ass off, I wouldn't leave that thing at a pos hull repairing at night (because damn it will take along time to repair)...
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WhiteTiger
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:37:00 -
[36]
Slightly more important when considering the balance topic. Given that the dev blog claims you can pass control of the fighters off to friendly ship and that the fighters will then warp with the assigned ship - why would you risk puttting the carrier on the battlefield at all? Jump into system, goto safespot, have pilots jump clone in and take over a few ships... assign drones to ships, cloak carrier while gank squad roams system, when gank squad is done, uncloak carrier, redock everyone, then either cloak carrier or jump away.
Hopefully either this isn't possible or the implications have been thought out, because if this works the people that whined about cloaked covert ops ships disrupting then will have a much bigger problem.
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Arti K
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Posted - 2005.12.01 00:57:00 -
[37]
Minmatar carriers are atrociously worse than the other races atm.
It doesn't matter though, because minmatar pilots make up for the disparities in dps, tanking abilities, etc. by just being better pilots.
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.12.01 01:13:00 -
[38]
I seriously want to know if drones that are assigned to other pilots to fly count against the total number of drones you can deploy.
I'm assuming they do, but you never know.
It will have a serious effect on how much of an advantage it's bonus will be in reality.
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