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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
3341
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Good evening pilots!
For almost 10 years, you, the EVE Community have been assisting us with the fight against bugs and unforeseen issues with EVE.
Some changes to how you can assist are on the horizon, and CCP Goliath, EVE's Quality Assurance Director is here to explain how the bug reporting process will be changing in the future, and how vigilant EVE players can continue to help us to identify and squash pesky bugs and defects.
You can read all about it in his new Dev Blog here.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
207
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
1st: Great job CCP
beat Chribba by seconds \o/ R.I.P. Vile Rat |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8800
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Supah dupah!
And happy birthdayah Falconah and Guardah!
/c
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1571
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:1st: Great job CCP
beat Chribba by seconds \o/
Thanks! hi5 CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Sarmatiko
1251
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
So what happens to already submitted but unprocessed bugreports? Will they be forgotten because new system started from scratch? -¥ |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:So what happens to already submitted but unprocessed bugreports? Will they be forgotten because new system started from scratch?
They have all been migrated into our new system. The only difference is you won't be able to interact with them, but we will still work on them. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1804
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it if they think it helps to resolve the bug)
CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway. (JIRA is great btw ;)) eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it)
CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway.
No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
18
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Bienator II wrote:my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it)
CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway. No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into.
But will I be able to see and add comments to bugs I reported myself? That has always been my biggest annoyance with the old system; you couldn't simply add an extra comment for more details. And the comment from support would end up in the issue either.
I take great pride in helping a game along. Letting me look back at a list of reported issues is quite rewarding!
Either way it will surely be an improvement which I've commented to you about in previous bug reports. |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
96
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Posted - 2013.07.03 17:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm guessing this is Eve only and not Dust? |
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Knmrr Snugul
Firetail Fireworks
0
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hi,
please add a better solution for the "Computer" section of the old web based form. i am getting old and don't remember every spec of my pc (respectively i don't care anymore). maybe store the last entered text somewhere (cookie?). Or even better - (pre)fill this box with a tool via flash/ocx or copy and paste from a standalone tool. And/or store user entered text somewhere else (e.g. for special Software/hardware/whatever)
and it would be also nice if there is a link to known bugs/unfinished features when filling a SISI bug report. one day or another i found a forum post about unfinished stuff. but when i've found a bug (on SISI) and want to create a bug report i don't want to search the forum (it's still a game and not work - right ? :D). it's hard enough for me to write a bug report in english with all neccessary infomations, reprod steps and so on...
cya
P.S. i had the "can't move my camera bug after undocking" error on Sisi before it was rolled out to TQ. And i didn't fill a bug report because of the reasons above...
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pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
538
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.
Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.
Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):
bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU
bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored
bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.
Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff prioritizing reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game. @pmchem on twitter || GARPA || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Adunh Slavy
1072
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into.
You don't want to deal with endless threads from customers asking/whining about devspeak? How come? |
StevieTopSiders
Adversity. Rote Kapelle
107
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute. |
MainDrain
7th Deepari Defence Armada Apocalypse Now.
212
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
So in dev blog first BR files in november 2003, first one that was a proper bug, number 62, filed the month before ... |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
MainDrain wrote:So in dev blog first BR files in november 2003, first one that was a proper bug, number 62, filed the month before ...
Haha whoops! November is supposed to be September :) CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Alice
C C P C C P Alliance
134
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
ArmEagle Kusoni wrote: But will I be able to see and add comments to bugs I reported myself? That has always been my biggest annoyance with the old system; you couldn't simply add an extra comment for more details. And the comment from support would end up in the issue either.
I can answer this in terms of website part: The first release will be the basic submit a bug report stuff. The following release shortly after that will be adding the ability to view a previously submitted report and edit it. I don't have a definite answer yet on whether that will include comments or if that will come in a later iteration (I strongly suspect later).
Also, we are way more excited than you would believe at the prospect of killing off the separate bugs.eveonline.com website and replacing it with something much better in the Support section of the Community website! Very excited, but of course not as much as CCP Goliath is in general about this great project though!! CCP Alice --áWeb Architect-á
"There is no knowledge without unity" |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
StevieTopSiders wrote:Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute.
Not my department, but if the client freezes I assume you're uploading files? It's not great behaviour I admit... CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.03 18:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
pmchem wrote:I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.
Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.
Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):
bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU
bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored
bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.
Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff handling reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game.
So, I had a look at your bug reports. The non repro one - 4 separate testers tried to repro with the information you gave, and couldn't. That's a nonrepro over 23 separate attempts using varying conditions. Note the "sometimes" in your statement about the defect - some issues with varying repro rates can be very difficult to reproduce and we only have so much time to allocate to each issue.
The issue you find with the bug reporter isn't actually an issue at all, it's by design, and ultimately changing anyway.
Unfortunately the 3rd issue just looks like it hasn't been gotten around to yet. It's not that it's being ignored, but we are only so many It is very well written though - kudos to you! CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
91
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Posted - 2013.07.03 19:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
When will we get part 2? I've been dying to see something being done about bug reports.
Is the work on this also the reason why it takes months to get the bug reports filtered? Kinda disappointed that I have 14 bug outstanding bug reports that need to be processed, the oldest being almost 6 months old :(
I really really hope that the feedback is added very soon after release, I hate having couple bug reports are attached to defects that are fixed but even worse, 2.5 year old bug reports that are still attached to defect. I have no idea if they ever going to be fixed. Even an intern with no python experience could fix some of them :/ |
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pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
539
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Posted - 2013.07.03 19:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: So, I had a look at your bug reports. The non repro one - 4 separate testers tried to repro with the information you gave, and couldn't. That's a nonrepro over 23 separate attempts using varying conditions. Note the "sometimes" in your statement about the defect - some issues with varying repro rates can be very difficult to reproduce and we only have so much time to allocate to each issue.
See, from the replies via the existing system all I got was a "can't repro, closed". Not "had 4 separate dudes" or "insufficient time" or "maybe in the future, leaving open". It was as if CCP was pretending there was no bug, instead of marking something difficult to reproduce as a low priority. More of a communication issue than a QA issue (thanks for the reply). I know race conditions can be a pain -- had to deal with those in Garpa Topographical Survey in the past.
Quote: The issue you find with the bug reporter isn't actually an issue at all, it's by design, and ultimately changing anyway.
Yeah. It was a bug filed out of frustration as I was in the process of reporting a different bug. Now irrelevant since you're changing the IGBR.
Quote:Unfortunately the 3rd issue just looks like it hasn't been gotten around to yet. It's not that it's being ignored, but we are only so many It is very well written though - kudos to you!
This is probably the one that would have the largest impact on the most players anyway. Please send it to a team for a fix. Thanks! @pmchem on twitter || GARPA || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4223
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Posted - 2013.07.03 19:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
It's interesting how a dev blog about bugs, is the first link ever on the EvE client launcher whose title is bugged... and unclickable. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Soylent Pete
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.07.03 20:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's interesting how a dev blog about bugs, is the first link ever on the EvE client launcher whose title is bugged... and unclickable.
Darn it, I was going to say that. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1575
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Posted - 2013.07.03 20:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
pmchem wrote:CCP Goliath wrote: So, I had a look at your bug reports. The non repro one - 4 separate testers tried to repro with the information you gave, and couldn't. That's a nonrepro over 23 separate attempts using varying conditions. Note the "sometimes" in your statement about the defect - some issues with varying repro rates can be very difficult to reproduce and we only have so much time to allocate to each issue.
See, from the replies via the existing system all I got was a "can't repro, closed". Not "had 4 separate dudes" or "insufficient time" or "maybe in the future, leaving open". It was as if CCP was pretending there was no bug, instead of marking something difficult to reproduce as a low priority. More of a communication issue than a QA issue (thanks for the reply). I know race conditions can be a pain -- had to deal with those in Garpa Topographical Survey in the past. Quote: The issue you find with the bug reporter isn't actually an issue at all, it's by design, and ultimately changing anyway.
Yeah. It was a bug filed out of frustration as I was in the process of reporting a different bug. Now irrelevant since you're changing the IGBR. Quote:Unfortunately the 3rd issue just looks like it hasn't been gotten around to yet. It's not that it's being ignored, but we are only so many It is very well written though - kudos to you! This is probably the one that would have the largest impact on the most players anyway. Please send it to a team for a fix. Thanks!
On the comments issue - looks like we found a bug in our site!
New site won't have this problem. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
821
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Posted - 2013.07.03 20:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
I've seen Jira used in another MMO for bug reporting and it was FAR from average player/end-user friendly. It had lots of features for the programmers/devs to track issues but it was a maze to navigate and understand. I suppose this could have had something to do with how it was set up for that environment but, will your new system be friendly for us non-programmer types? What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1075
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Posted - 2013.07.03 20:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
I made a couple of bug reports on my Dscan needing to be opened up every single time i undock..
Both times the replies i got were "No it doesn't"
I wasn't impressed. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1376
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Posted - 2013.07.03 20:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:StevieTopSiders wrote:Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute. Not my department, but if the client freezes I assume you're uploading files? It's not great behaviour I admit...
Just a quick side note, my clients (multiple different machines, has happened on different OSes, different service providers, both wireless and wired networks) always freeze ("Not Responding") when I submit a petition as well. No biggie, been doing that for as long as I can recall. And no, not uploading any files. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
472
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Posted - 2013.07.03 21:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
I gave up on submitting bug reports a year or so ago when repeated reports on the gate jumping, titan bridging and jump bridging session change bug went unanswered for months.
Best of luck with your new system and rebuilding confidence in your customer-base willing to put the effort into submitting defect reports. +++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
Ian Morbius
1
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Posted - 2013.07.03 21:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hope things go well changing over to JIRA. |
Ivan Davis
Luna Free State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.03 23:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nice to see improvements planned for issue-tracking.
On that topic - is anyone still reading the [email protected] mailbox?
I sent a (minor) forum-related security/spoofing issue there back on April 7th....
...and haven't gotten a response. At all. Not "thanks", not "we think that's a not a security bug", nothing.
(And the issue still exists.)
Should I just not bother next time?
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