Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Penny Ibramovic
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
67
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 16:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.tigerears.org/2013/07/04/keep-the-unknown-unknown-deactivate-the-discovery-scanner-in-w-space/
I was minding my own business, floating in space, when a new signature pops up in the system. Neat, huh? No, not at all. I'm not in empire space looking to grab some loot from a site, but in w-space where the signature is almost certainly a newly spawned wormhole. Without any input or action on my part, I now know of a new connection in the system, likely to bring at least a scout, maybe a fleet, and can act accordingly. The discovery scanner makes it all possible. And the discovery scanner must die.
I have already argued that an automated directional scanner would change the fundamental nature of w-space for the worse, as it would introduce an asymmetric shift in safety towards those less-inclined to PvP interactions. Now instead of an automated d-scanner, we have been given something more powerful. The discovery scanner may not show when pilots are in the system, and new signatures may not be wormholes, but what it does is give strong evidence of a new wormhole opening before anyone has even jumped in to the system. And this warning doesn't even require a single mouse-click to be effective.
But more clicks don't make the game better, right? So the argument went for the directional scanner, so the argument is made for the discovery scanner. No, more clicks don't make the game better. Yes, not needing to mash the mouse button would be preferable to constant clicking. But that's how the directional scanner works, and that's how it was designed to work. The decision to gain intelligence with every update or to take a rest and trust in general inactivity is the choice every pilot makes, solo or in a fleet, in w-space. The same was true with scouts having to continually update their scanning probes.
The fundamental nature of w-space is the unknown. The space is unknown, the wormholes are unknown, the pilots in the system are unknown. If you wanted to know something about the system you had to uncover it, either through careful monitoring of the directional scanner or through the use of scanning probes. Now the discovery scanner shows you every signature, every site in the system within seconds of entering, and any new signature the moment it spawns. Even with probes launched and inactive, new signatures will be added to the scanning interface. Now there are fewer unknowns.
Fewer unknowns makes for less threat. Fleets engaging Sleepers in a fully scanned and secured system can now take a passive approach to safety. Just watch the scanning interface for new signatures and retreat if any spawn. There's no need to update the directional scanner, and the discovery scanner is already dynamic. You can't sneak up on even mildly experienced pilots through a new wormhole. And if the wormhole is old, well, mildly experienced pilots aren't likely to run sites in an insecure system.
The best a w-space hunter can hope for is activity through a carelessly opened K162, or pilots who aren't paying attention to the most obvious signs of intrusion. That's not only slim pickings, but picking on only the weakest, ill-prepared pilots in space. The level of threat you bring, and the feeling of being in threat, is drastically reduced when the discovery scanner acts as a beacon to any active pilot indicating that someone is coming.
I can see the reasoning behind the introduction of the discovery scanner, even if I don't agree with it. CCP wants scanning and exploration to be an obvious route for new players, but didn't see how capsuleers could stumble in to it. Clearly showing all of the 'hidden' sites in a system is to pique the interest of capsuleers in to finding out how to uncover them properly. But the same information is useless and irritating for pilots who, for example, know about and are uninterested in scanning being presented with useless information on every jump, which for haulers and roamers is frequent.
This is not to mention that the discovery scanner is the antithesis to the very idea of exploration. There is never any need to launch probes to see if there are any signatures in the system. New signatures automatically appear in the scanning interface, and on the HUD in space, and around the planet where they are closest to. Perhaps this is of relative unimportance for the site runners in empire space, but the notion of w-space being unexplored and unknown has been completely undermined.
Simply travelling through w-space now shows you what having to launch probes used to. Not only is a wormhole opening immediately obvious to any pilot paying attention, without even needing to update d-scan to check for a cloaked ship entering the system, but merely keeping track of the number of signatures in each connected system lets you check at a glance whether any particular system needs re-scanning for new connections. You don't even need to launch a probe to do so. It is intelligence without input.
If there is ever a feature that needs to be rolled-back, I think this is it. The game is wrongly simplified because of the discovery scanner, and w-space has been neutered, when the intention was to reveal the exploration option to those unaware of it. There are better ways to accomplish this goal. As for a solution: disable the discovery scanner for w-space. Tie it in to empire hardware, if there needs to be a reason. This keeps w-space unknown, more so for those entering from empire space, and further distinguishes w-space from null-sec, all without negating the benefits the discovery scanner has brought for pilots who weren't aware of exploration. |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
68
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 16:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think I already said this several weeks ago. (found it)
And I only read the title, not the text assault.
There was at least one CSM who chimed in to say they consider (at least wormholes) appearing instantly to be harmful to our environment. |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
478
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 16:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
No. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
125
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 17:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rational, humble, and well thought out. Everything I would expect from Polarized.
It is a little ironic that CCP has complained that they didn't intend for people to live in wormholes full time, then they dumb it down so any scrub can live there in complete safety because they get a free 'you're about to get jumped' warning, and nobody will evict them because SMAs don't even drop loot anymore.
|
Otumi Karasu
Corvidae Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 17:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Best possible route I can think of would be to simply remove the WHs from the discoveryscanner.
Have Wormholes only show up on the actual probescan and not on the "probeless" systemscan. This would however make it far easier to distinguish WH from other sigs without having to resolve, bringing back a function of the old Deep Space Probes albeit in an different (slightly easier) way. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
38
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like bothe ideas in this thread(original and the one from Otumi) , i only have one question though did the new system bring in more people and new people? If it does, do they interact with us? If on of those questions in no then the system hasn't done us any good and shuld be altered , if not then we might have jumped the gun to fast... . |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:I like bothe ideas in this thread(original and the one from Otumi) , i only have one question though did the new system bring in more people and new people? If it does, do they interact with us? If on of those questions in no then the system hasn't done us any good and shuld be altered , if not then we might have jumped the gun to fast... .
So far there has been an increase of people entering holes. I fair few leave right away. I mean just that: the junp straight out again. Others scan further and travel around. I few actually do anything.
I roam holes quite a bit. Personally I've seen fewer fights, and those fights I've seen is with people who thought that w-space is pretty much like hisec. On many occasions, an alarming number of them, all I see when I enter through a hole I opened are wrecks. The locals are behind their POS shields.
I agree the article Penny wrote wholeheartedly. The implementation is the death of non-concensual PvP. Just like local is in Lo/Null. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
758
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP may have intended to change the game on us and it could turn out to be a good change.
Bitten used a trick on me recently that was, most likely, brought about by the new scan system giving me a false sense of security.
At the end of the day, it just means that people don't have to dedicate alts to probe-scan the system. What now? |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Surely You're Joking
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Otumi Karasu wrote:Best possible route I can think of would be to simply remove the WHs from the discoveryscanner.
Have Wormholes only show up on the actual probescan and not on the "probeless" systemscan. This would however make it far easier to distinguish WH from other sigs without having to resolve, bringing back a function of the old Deep Space Probes albeit in an different (slightly easier) way.
I would prefer to find the Discovery Scanner is unable to function in W-space... IE turn the damn thing turned OFF in W-space to give us BACK the reality of living in Unknown Space... I hate the gods damned Billboards screaming "HIDDEN **** HERE -->" all over the place...
Exploration Themed Expansion replaced 'exploring' with Roadside Billboards... TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
197
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 20:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is a stupid mechanic, they need to get rid of it. Just another thing implemented without any thought to wh'ers.
They need to hire a wormhole knowledge dev |
|
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2089
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1, new system is dumb. |
Moo Moocow
Bite Me inc Bitten.
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I can't help but not like the new system... Removes abit of the unknown/risk from W-space. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1488
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Call me old school. I still pop probes. I don't trust the damn thing |
Van Kuzco
Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno
68
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've been saying this ever since the discovery changes went onto SiSi. The fix is so incredibly simple. Just put a 30-60 min delay on new wormholes showing up on the discovery scanner. Make it for all signatures if that's easier.
This achieves the goal of new players being able to see what's out there without providing instant intel to risk adverse wormhole dwellers. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1265
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
it's funny how i predicted this thread and others like it the minute i learned about the probing/scanner changes...
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
324
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wspace is supposed to be hardcore, then, discovery shouldnt work properly. IE, only when you enter a system or not at all. I'm fine with both, but not with what we have now. |
Van Kuzco
Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno
68
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 00:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Wspace is supposed to be hardcore, then, discovery shouldnt work properly. IE, only when you enter a system or not at all. I'm fine with both, but not with what we have now.
Yeah I also proposed the idea that the discovery scanner in WH only updates upon a session change. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1275
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 00:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Call me old school. I still pop probes. I don't trust the damn thing
Nor should you,it's buggy. Won't stop CCP from fixing it though. HTFU!...for the children! |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
395
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 00:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
The only one opposing this idea are the carebears. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation The Nightingales of Hades
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 02:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Copy-Paste from what I said on TigerEars
Cross post that forum link to another part of the Eve-O forums like the feedback or features section. Devs rarely look at the Wormhole section. I totally agree with almost everything you've said. If you're paying attention you can actually beat the incoming scout to their WH these days. Makes the whole thing feel a lot less dangerous.
The only thing I disagree with you about is a rollback. I think positivity will trump negativity on this. Ideas to enhance the Discovery Scanner or tweak it to be unique in W-Space would be the better approach. |
|
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
478
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 02:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:The only one opposing this idea are the carebears.
Its brought more noobs in to wspace what's so wrong with that? |
Dex DelaVenuto
Sky Templars
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 02:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
For a small time WH operator, NOOOOOOO don't change the new mechanic. |
Si Wang-mu
Stay Frosty.
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 06:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Agree with Penny. Some of the magic of wormhole space (and other space) has been lost with the introduction of the discovery scanner. I'd like to see it removed from wh space and reduce discoveries in normal space. With the new probe mechanic it is easier than ever to deploy scanning probes so why add an all-encompassing dir scanner? Stay Frosty --áThe Corporation for Gentlemen of Notorious & Questionable Quality |
Dorrann
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 11:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
I dont live in a wormhole, but I agree with you completely. How is it "exploration" if you are told where to look ? A more accurate term would be Recovery, because all we're doing at the moment is following a pointer that tells us something is there. We've lost the admittedly time consuming and often disappointing step of searching a system to see if anything is there. I LIKED doing that, I felt like I was DISCOVERING stuff when it popped up signatures after the first scan.
I get that they want more people to use Exploration tools, but I feel that they have gone to far in trying to make it accessible to people. The old system was harder (not by much) but it was a LOT more rewarding.
This new system doesnt even require the Click to know there is Bacon around. |
Karak Bol
Crepuscular
88
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 11:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Short: NO!
Long: No, because I like to see if its worth scanning or not, saves me time. The new explo system is great. Keep it and adapt. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
324
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 12:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Karak Bol wrote:Short: NO!
Long: No, because I like to see if its worth scanning or not, saves me time. The new explo system is great. Keep it and adapt.
I'm gonna answer you in your terms.
Short: NO! Long: You are lazy. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
441
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 12:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
This arguement is countered by CCPs changes to sites, making grav sites warpable without the need for probes, just as with the combat sites. People running as soon as new wormhole appears is nicely balanced by this fact. All you need to do is wait cloaked or offline in the system till they feel safe again (or till they collapse the entrance), and it's free season again!
I'd personally argue that people are alot more vunerable now than with the old system. With the old system, sure you could get into a hole with only a 5-10 second window where you appear on the D-scan, but soon as you slapped those probes out everyone knew you were there. Now you don't even need the probes, you can just bide your time and strike at the perfect moment, and they'll be taken completely unawares! Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
279
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 12:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm half and half on this one, being able to see the position of sigs in space on the overlay scanner (atleast for me) gives a system more depth and feel and makes it feel a bit more like your in space. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
324
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 13:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Im not against the overlay. Its how is implemented in wspace. |
Setsune Rin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 14:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
all it needs is a rule in W-space that it will only scan on login and system change, not when a new sig appears
it only impacts wormhole pvp, nothing else
daytrippers, chain scanners etc can still see all sigs when they jump in people carebearing just have to be a little more vigilant |
|
Penny Ibramovic
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
85
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 15:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Karak Bol wrote:Short: NO!
Long: No, because I like to see if its worth scanning or not, saves me time. The new explo system is great. Keep it and adapt.
It's almost always worth scanning in w-space. I can count on one hand the number of times I've entered a system that only has one signature, and it being the one I'm sitting on.
I'm not proposing the discovery scanner be removed from empire or null-sec. |
Ellariona
Bite Me inc Bitten.
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 15:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
The risk vs reward for carebears in w-space is a little bit broken (think solo venture or tengu) because of the instantaneous notification of a new sig. I consider the implementation a very good thing, but the notification of a new sig should either be delayed or require manual interfacing. |
Yoshmoto
Bite Me inc Bitten.
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 03:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
The new system has broken rolling and solo hunting in wormholes.
If we are rolling wormholes they get the Sig and know something is coming straight away with no work.
The bots are going to find it easier to bot... Just look for that new sig and warp off.
They should have to be actively scanning with probes and be on the ball to redeploy them when expired.
You might as well add local chat its that bad...
All the care bear miners and ventures are even more protected now < these are a solo hunters target why protect them if they choose a high risk > high reward environment.
Why make wormhole space easier. It should be made harder. |
Dirael Papier
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Illusion of Solitude
48
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 05:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Otumi Karasu wrote:Best possible route I can think of would be to simply remove the WHs from the discoveryscanner.
Have Wormholes only show up on the actual probescan and not on the "probeless" systemscan. This would however make it far easier to distinguish WH from other sigs without having to resolve, bringing back a function of the old Deep Space Probes albeit in an different (slightly easier) way. I really like this idea if it's do-able. Solves easy intel on new wormholes showing up, doesn't take away the current convenience of the discovery scanner otherwise, and as an added bonus it'll make finding wormholes in a system with tons of sigs a whole lot easier (ignore the sigs on the discovery scanner and the ones left when you use scan probes are your wormholes.)
That last one could be considered a drawback though (dumbing down scanning to find wormholes) but I'd like it. :P |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
479
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 08:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
OK OK ive been converted |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
247
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 12:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
+1 everything penny said
penny for csm? |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 12:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hathrul wrote:+1 everything penny said
penny for csm?
I agree. |
Apollo Eros
Daktaklakpak.
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 23:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
After I patched odyssey. I remember watching the discovery scanner and watching sigs automatically pop up. I thought to myself jesus why did they do that. I then thought to myself why has no one said something about this being on sisi.
I do not mind the discovery scanner. I still use probes because I see it lag out from time to time. However I might as well be wearing a bright orange suite when rage rolling so all the deer can see me. I said this before though I still do not really see carebears paying attention. I have seen it take > 10 minutes for a active group to start putting probes out. Granted they were french. [LVL 5 Space Wizard] |
Fellblade
Octavian Vanguard
26
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 08:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1 to this as well |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
533
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 08:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
They managed to turn off the jumps API for w-space, I'm sure they can also disable the discovery scanner for w-space while keeping it elsewhere. Do it! . |
|
Gerlaise deTroix
Federation Navy Auxiliary Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 08:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Apollo Eros wrote:I thought to myself jesus why did they do that. I then thought to myself why has no one said something about this being on sisi.
Maybe they did that because the alternative is repetetive, boring, un-fun and doesn't add anything to the game at all? And because they removed the prime means of finding new signatures?
If they'd remove the auto-popup the only change it would bring is that experienced WH residents get RSI from spamming D-Scan and probes all the time. Sorry, but I prefer to keep my sanity and somewhat fun in the game even if it means gankbears have a somewhat harder time. |
BinaryData
HORSE KILLERS The Predictables
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:I like bothe ideas in this thread(original and the one from Otumi) , i only have one question though did the new system bring in more people and new people? If it does, do they interact with us? If one of those questions are no then the system hasn't done us any good and should be altered , if not then we might have jumped the gun to fast... .
You want the new W-Space kiddies to interact with the likes of YOU? F*** that, I've had my fair share of run ins with Tranmission Lost. You clowns don't give fair fights, just mass blobs. It's like a wolf in a pen full of sheep. Eventually one will die.
Edit:
As for the topic; I agree with Penny & Okumi. There needs to be a change to it, a step backwards, but still a step forwards. I believe the new discovery scanner made it easier for PvPers, than the care bears. Yes you can see a new hole pop up, but whats to stop someone from coming in the old wormholes? I live in a c2 with static c3 & hs, I can't even mine in my hole anymore. Closing the WH doesn't do jack, the grav anom needs to be moved back to a signature. |
Xia Kairui
Delete Inc. Enigma Project
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 12:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
BinaryData wrote:Yes you can see a new hole pop up, but whats to stop someone from coming in the old wormholes? I live in a c2 with static c3 & hs, I can't even mine in my hole anymore. Closing the WH doesn't do jack,
Uh, what? If you close a wormhole no one can use it. Sure, you get a new static, but you ARE aware that (as far as we know) as long as you haven't warped to it there is no K162 on the other side?
Thus, once you closed your static(s) no one can enter the hole without opening a new wormhole and spawning a new signature.
As for the OP, we already had the mechanics you want back. Everybody worth his salt had Deep Space probes active when doing anything serious. Now that they are removed the signature popping is the only way to see new threats unless you have a small enough WH that you can cover it with the remaining probes. So, no to the OP.
|
Omega Flames
Last Resort Inn
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 13:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:The only one opposing this idea are the carebears. /me is a carebear...and i support this change. W-space is (imo) supposed to be a much harsher environment to be in and being told immediately when a new wh opened into your system removes a huge portion of the possible pvp opportunites in w-space. I've spent almost a year living in w-space and the need to be paranoid about who's in your system is something that I enjoy about w-space. The current mechanic comes as close to adding a local as is possible without actually doing it and us w-space dwellers like our space discovery scanner free.
edit: just came back to the game so I didn't realize there are sites in w-space that are warpable to without the need to scan them down (which is another horrible idea btw) so both need removing at the same time otherwise it would be far too advantageous for the ones that opened the wh. |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Omega Flames wrote:Messoroz wrote:The only one opposing this idea are the carebears. /me is a carebear...and i support this change. W-space is (imo) supposed to be a much harsher environment to be in and being told immediately when a new wh opened into your system removes a huge portion of the possible pvp opportunites in w-space. I've spent almost a year living in w-space and the need to be paranoid about who's in your system is something that I enjoy about w-space. The current mechanic comes as close to adding a local as is possible without actually doing it and us w-space dwellers like our space discovery scanner free. edit: just came back to the game so I didn't realize there are sites in w-space that are warpable to without the need to scan them down (which is another horrible idea btw) so both need removing at the same time otherwise it would be far too advantageous for the ones that opened the wh.
Totally with you. Swapping between being carabear(ish) and predatory myself and I must say that I much more preferred it when I had to combat scan miners down. About the only chance a miner have to evade a cloaky aggressor was to notice probes.
I can not understand why the Grav sites where made anomalies (shows up at 100% without probes) and gas/ladar remained signatures. Any reasoning that the grav sites should be easier to find does not sound plausible due to the fact that in w-space people have the ability to scan anyway. The more conspiratorial part of me says that the old subject of "we want less ABC ores coming out of W-space" could be a real reason. |
Resilan Bearcat
Fighting Carebears
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 01:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
I do not mind the new system nor do I care if you remove it. Anyone with probes out who was paying attention, was still aware of a new sig as soon as it came up anyway.
In my past experience, I rarely saw much activity in wormholes during the summer months. This year, I seem to be encountering more new players in the lower class wormholes. Sometimes simplifying things encourages new blood which is a good thing.
I am weeks ahead on my blog with a variety of fun encounters from this summer. Keep the newbies coming. :P |
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 04:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cliff notes on the OP would be nice but I read the first paragraph and agree. IMO the discovery scanner takes all the mystery out of exploration. Remove it completely. |
Thor66777
Obstergo
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 01:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Remove wh sigs. |
Lucas Ericsson
Obstergo
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 01:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yes, +1.
You should have to work for your security. |
Mapster Tacitus
Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 04:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:Yes, +1.
You should have to work for your security. -1
The Discovery Scanner is fine the way it is. Some people here act like its scanning Ships or something. There is always a static or two in your Wormhole. You have to cloak up at 100km, hit D-Scan all the Time and always have your Eyes on the Overview, so you dont miss this 1 second a Covert Ops shows up. How much more work do you want ? |
|
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 18:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mapster Tacitus wrote:Quote:Yes, +1.
You should have to work for your security. -1 The Discovery Scanner is fine the way it is. Some people here act like its scanning Ships or something. There is always a static or two in your Wormhole. You have to cloak up at 100km, hit D-Scan all the Time and always have your Eyes on the Overview, so you dont miss this 1 second a Covert Ops shows up. How much more work do you want ?
It's not the work-load that I/we "want". What I want is the iniscurity, the tension, the unknown. The excitement of being unsure weather the T3's are setting up for to hit us just as we kill the last Sleeper. And I want to be able to do that to others. |
Elistea
BLUE Regiment. Y G G D R A S I L
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 07:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Well its completely ******** that ATM you can't rly detect/scan or defend against cloaky thread in WH. Noone needs to scan Ore sites any moar = free kills for everyone! |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
336
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 10:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sigs autoupdate on sesion changes in our space |
Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Elistea wrote:Well its completely ******** that ATM you can't rly detect/scan or defend against cloaky thread in WH. Noone needs to scan Ore sites any moar = free kills for everyone!
The whole premise and purpose of cloaky ships is that they can't be detected. I hardly consider it appropriate to make them detectable. I'm not sure that's what you're suggesting though.
That the Grav sites are now anomalies instead of signatures is a poor choice in my opinion. Even though I've lived in W-space for years I've mined for... 3 times? I've tried and gank miners as often I've had the opportunity though and I really liked the challenge of trying to scan the mining site down without the miners noticing. Being in cloaky ships I figure it was the miners best defense - to keep vigilant. I'm pretty crap at scanning so they got away more often than not. |
Temba Ronin
235
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
My experience with wh-space is limited to sneaking in to mine ore and or grab some sleeper loot. I have never lived long term in a wh and fortunately never been killed in one lol.
Seems like CCP needs to rethink some of the mechanics of the pop up no to minimal skill required scanning recently implemented.
In my humble opinion it should be limited to highsec for the average player and sov null sec as an upgrade and only readable by the sov holders, in NPC Null for members of the specific race controlling the space. It should be a function we can shut completely OFF like the Captain's Quarters. Seeing that junk when making a long freighter run in high sec space is mind numbing.
In Low sec it should be range based at best only showing things within d-scan range if at all, and I suspect it has no place at all in wh-space, I always thought of those areas as being beyond the constant technological reach of the EVE universe beyond the well placed POS and daring pilots in their ships.
To sum up where this feature should and could be best implemented:
High security space annoying pop up ok for everyone to see or shut off, Low security space limited range if at all and certainly not in every low sec system, Null security space only as an upgrade available for Sov holders exclusively, NPC Null Security space only for the NPC members of the race that controls the area, because when was the last time CCP showed some love to players who stay in their NPC starting spot? Last but not least in Wormhole space not at all.
I'm no expert but this seems more equitable. Power To The Players! |
Faded Silver
Darkstorm Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas Ericsson wrote:Yes, +1.
You should have to work for your security.
I'll be an "unpopular" one and disagree. The new system is fine. Although many don't want to admit it, there was *always* this type of warning system in place. The only difference is that now you only have to keep the scan window open and watch as opposed to having to annoyingly click "scan" with combat scanners (which, by the way, is hardly considered "working" for my security). This type of monotonous "gameplay" is simply a function that adds an element of tedium to w-space, not difficulty. This tedium serves to only raise the barrier of entry into w-space, which in turn means there are less people to "hunt". Before the change, I could tell within seconds of a "new signature" that has appeared in the system, the only difference is now I'm not clicking "scan".
I have to admit though, the amount of butt-hurt in this thread is amusing. |
Orlacc
382
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
I agree. WHs should be scary.... "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Kalel Nimrott
Sky Fighters
363
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:My experience with wh-space is limited to sneaking in to mine ore and or grab some sleeper loot. I have never lived long term in a wh and fortunately never been killed in one lol.
Seems like CCP needs to rethink some of the mechanics of the pop up no to minimal skill required scanning recently implemented.
In my humble opinion it should be limited to highsec for the average player and sov null sec as an upgrade and only readable by the sov holders, in NPC Null for members of the specific race controlling the space. It should be a function we can shut completely OFF like the Captain's Quarters. Seeing that junk when making a long freighter run in high sec space is mind numbing.
In Low sec it should be range based at best only showing things within d-scan range if at all, and I suspect it has no place at all in wh-space, I always thought of those areas as being beyond the constant technological reach of the EVE universe beyond the well placed POS and daring pilots in their ships.
To sum up where this feature should and could be best implemented:
High security space annoying pop up ok for everyone to see or shut off, Low security space limited range if at all and certainly not in every low sec system, Null security space only as an upgrade available for Sov holders exclusively, NPC Null Security space only for the NPC members of the race that controls the area, because when was the last time CCP showed some love to players who stay in their NPC starting spot? Last but not least in Wormhole space not at all.
I'm no expert but this seems more equitable.
Yes, this. Also, you new scanners lo ers, go back to empire. |
Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
288
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 14:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Just happened to see this. Wholeheartedly agree. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Penny Ibramovic
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:02:00 -
[60] - Quote
Faded Silver wrote:...there was *always* this type of warning system in place... This type of monotonous "gameplay" is simply a function that adds an element of tedium... the only difference is now I'm not clicking "scan".
CCP should introduce an automatic 0.01 ISKer for market traders. Set the time delay for lowering your sell order, set the lowest price, and your order will automatically detect a cheaper seller and undercut them by 0.01 ISK, without your having to do anything!
Hey, we know people are doing this anyway, it only adds a level of tedium to the gameplay to do it yourself, which adds an extra barrier of entry to market trading, and this way it removes the need click around the market interface all the time, and means you don't need to train an alt.
Also, how about the automatic cyno? Pick a station you want to jump to, pay a nominal fee that's equivalent to a frigate fitted with a cyno and basic clone, and the station will light a cyno beacon for you.
People do this anyway, lighting your own station cyno beacons only adds a level of tedium to gameplay, and this way it removes the need to train an alt.
Or maybe, as Akely says, sometimes you need to work for what you get. The people who train alts or compromise fittings to scan for new signatures get a benefit over those who don't. Those who put up with a bit of 'tedious' gameplay gain over those who can't be bothered.
Those players who enjoy the risk and threat of a w-space without a discovery scanner get to keep the thrill of being in truly dangerous space. And those who find it tedious can look for their fun and ISK elsewhere. |
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
737
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 10:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Gerlaise deTroix wrote:Apollo Eros wrote:I thought to myself jesus why did they do that. I then thought to myself why has no one said something about this being on sisi. Maybe they did that because the alternative is repetetive, boring, un-fun and doesn't add anything to the game at all? this can be said about doing combat sites, mining, gas harvesting, manufacturing, researching, mission running, exploration..... Agree on removing all this activities too?
Gerlaise deTroix wrote:If they'd remove the auto-popup the only change it would bring is that experienced WH residents get RSI from spamming D-Scan and probes all the time. they (experienced WH residents) haven't got RSI for years of playing. You think they WILL get it after bad change is reverted? |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
89
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 14:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
On one hand I like the new automatic scan, I like jumping into a new Wormhole and without having to put out probes have an idea of how long this system will take to scan, will i need backup etc.
Having to have a alt in a cov ops scanning for you while you did sites/gas/hauling etc was great. Many a great gank or fight was satretd by one side's scout sleeping on the job.
I wouldnt be heartbroken by any means if the scanner was shut off completely but I think a better solution would be along the lines of making new incoming K162 not show up for a bit. Allow the hunters at least some time to hunt before the cats out of the bag. Right now the only way you catch people off guard is when theyre literally paying no attention, or AFK.
Since Odyssey the amount of ganks/pvp weve been able to find has dmininished greatly, and I attribute a lot of that to our target's ability to know were watching them MUCH sooner. Its practically impossible to sneak up on people now.
Or maybe CCP should also give a warning to let you know mean people just entered your system, dont even req they look at the scan window sounds about in line with what theyve been doing. |
DrBmN
Axial tilt
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 20:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
We live in wh space for more than 3 years, maybe someone remembers our small group, maybe not.
Anyways, i scanned a wh system only twice since the last patch. Why you might ask?
Coz the new scanning system destroyed everything what was interesting in wh space, thats why.
It took away the Unknown, the suprise effect, the cloaky camping the tower for hours and wait for the right moment feeling,....
If CCP wants us to leave WH space, the new scanning system is the right tool for it, as it robbed everything out of wh space for what is was worth to leave in.
|
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
89
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 20:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
if you think that the discovery scanner has made WH space too easy to the point your considering leaving, maybe you should move up a class of WH, or several classes. |
DrBmN
Axial tilt
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 20:39:00 -
[65] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:if you think that the discovery scanner has made WH space too easy to the point your considering leaving, maybe you should move up a class of WH, or several classes.
No thanks.
Small scale warfare is what interested me (us) the most, i can go to 0.0 space if i would want to be rap*d by 40+ t3s. |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
83
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 17:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
The discovery scanner is the single most worthless "feature" to be added to the game since "Walking in Space".
I get that CCP wanted to promote the whole concept of exploration. But all they did was spoon feed content to people.
The effect on wormhole space is hysterical. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |