I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.

What this thread did show is how many folks don't have the slightest idea of where RP fits in MMOs and how badly CCP has failed to support that in Eve. How something as simple as WiS with a corp meeting room, an NPC in a recruiting office or as a mission agent or a bar to gather in would make Eve 10000% more immersive.

Some folks like to say such intellectually impressive comments like "go back to wow!" but I don't see Blizzard laying off 20% of their staff. Fact is Eve can make FiS 500% better and without WiS it stays a niche game and CCP will slowly die on the vine or eventually find a game that can appeal to a broader audience and Eve dies anyways.

Issler

They pulled the plug on guitar hero because they had lost the segment. Even in the layoffs they continued to aggressively recruit for WoW.

You can ignore many of the other posters in this thread that point how they want WIS for RP but it doesn't make you right.

Trends in Eve subscriptions are not encouraging and while I don't claim its dying yet I'd argue that WiS would increase the appeal of Eve to many more gamers and revenues to CCP would climb. But it isn't likely now unless CCP wakes up that we'll ever know.

Issler

LoL, please post this Dev statement and evidence stating that DUST and EVE won't be tied together. Why don't you try watching the demonstration and progress report videos made by CCP Dev's explaining how they'll be interactive before posting your narrow minded viewpoints as fact.

Oh really? Please post a few of the limitless ways from the 100's and 100's of ideas already supposedly presented that will expand and create new game content based specifically on FiS.

By the way, thanks for being a nay sayer and keeping this thread alive. Guess you'll be one of the first to swan dive into a Bio-Vat.

Doesn't matter what you say, I'm done wasting my time with you.

Wall of text

The problem with the community and its stance with WIS was that CCP themselves poisoned it.

It is now tainted and polluted in the minds of many.

It does make me hope shooting folks in the face is added to WiS soon if it comes back.

Cool!

I'll count you as pro WiS then!

Issler

EVE has always been envisioned (see CCP's "future vision") as a sci-fi universe simulator.

envision (?n'v???n) GÇövb (tr) to conceive of as a possibility, esp in the future; foresee

en-+vi-+sion [en-vizh-uhn] Show IPA verb (used with object) to picture mentally, especially some future event or events: to envision a bright future.

Not quite sure why you think he got it wrong? For as long as I have played EVE (2006) it has envisioned (foresee's, pictured mentally) a future of being a total sci fi simulation.

Once again we see the stubborness of FiS only people. I really do like EVE online but if CCP goes with your idea of what EVE is then the version of EVE I was sold upon and the game I play and its potential of what it could have become has died and all that is left a husk of what it was.

Can I recommend that you go play second life instead? That was you can indulge your fantasy by creating a world that caters only to your particular interests.

They have flying *****' generators that you can use to indulge your FiS fantasies.

*yawn*

Hmm, I think you may be interested in Infinity if/when it comes out.

It seems you haven't watched "A Future Vision". Go watch it. Here.

If you've used the markets to buy the ship you fly in space with, or if your ship was built using a blueprint and mined minerals, or if it docks in a PoS fueled by resources extracted from a planet... then you've already convinced yourself why EVE isn't just about FiS.

Why WiS? Because EVE struggles to be a complete sci-fi universe: we've got the economy, and the industry, and the combat, the next obvious thing missing is face-to-face interaction. This is necessary because EVE is a sci-fi universe centered around pod pilots, humanoids, not floating hunks of metal (everything from your account to your SP is attached to your character, not your ship), so face-to-face means human face, and not the hull of your vessel.

WiS is obvious from what EVE has always tried to be. The real question is how and when WiS?
When?
Given what most of us saw at 2008, the answer should have been "a long time ago". But we realize greed botched things up and the first go around has CCP in lockdown mode. It may be too soon to push for a proper WiS (E3 2008 style- promenade, establishments, minigames), but neither can we let it slip into silence and let CCP think FiS is the be-all end-all and that WiS should be terminated.

I think most WiS-ers are willing to give CCP a bit of rope to recover from the Incarna disaster; the problem is if they continue to cater to only FiS at the expense of the "future vision" and think that will save them... they will quickly end up with enough rope to hang themselves.

Ideas for WiS game play content has already been posted numerous times within this thread but you still don't want to acknowledge it. Seems all you really want to do is continuously berate and belittle anyone who posts a positive viewpoint about WiS.

Your character was created on 2009.10.21which makes your statement a lie. Either that or you lack the courage to post with your main character.

lol, first you ask players to post how WiS could add new game content to eve and when they do, you don't want to see it and just continue with your rant. That type of reaction and attitude along with your statement about wet dreams due to WiS tears is largely viewed as a pre-teen mentality. Definitely not the actions associated with a mature adult or someone that's been playing this game since what, 2003? Yeah, right.

By the way, this is my main character. I don't hide behind a forum posting alt.

I have, actually. I wonder what made think otherwise. I think you completely missed the point of the video I linked and in compensating for that you link two videos with the apparent purpose being to demonstrate that you think EVE should be 90% pew-pew...in your very own, might I add, subjective opinion.
Yeah I know, I mean here we are, all witing down our opinions. In general, opinions are subjective. Do we have to state the obvious?

Your comment about reading a novel to get the complete sci-fi universe is about as useful as me suggesting you to watch those videos you linked to get your FiS fix.

then you seriously overestimate yourself.

Wis can add something. Consider the market. You can buy Illegal items and faction ships on the legal open market. This is immersion breaking.

Where do you live that books are illegal?!

The two biggest 'hits' (like them or not) are entirely 'interact with others' games. After 8 years, EVE is still sitting at under 400,000. There *is* a market for social gameplay. Applying this to EVE, it would need to be REVELANT and MEANGFUL (as witnessed by the recent flop of Incarna's single-cell room and monocle fiasco).

Can you honestly tell me that CCP is happy being a niche company? No board of directors in their right mind should willingly turn away opportunity to expand, grow, and make more money. It's important to look at CCP's future from a company-level aspect and consider what will facilitate growth. Keeping current players happy is important since it will increase retention of existing subscriptions, but part of the company *must* work towards new customers, and therefore must continually 'reinvent' EVE in the public eye.

My post was merely a response to a previous poster who was asking 'where are the successful social games?'. I was pointing out a few. I certainly don't want Sims-style gameplay in EVE because it's too silly... but expanding the game beyond the model we've had for the past 8 years is crucial to EVE's survivability.

I can't understand players that don't want EVE to expand. The average retention is under 6 months, which is pretty bad for an MMO.

Reinvent means to expand and come up with new content. Try something new. What did you think it meant?

Don't know why you keep insisting on labeling Incarna as WiS because it's not the same thing. What CCP gave us was Incarna, not WiS. Maybe if you looked at the Ambulation videos from 2008 than you'd see WiS.

Eve was a 'niche' game back in 2003. It's come a long way and has gone through a lot of changes since then and will continue to change, whether you like it or not.. By the way, after CCP ran TV commercials, twitter and facebook advertising this game, it ceased to be 'niche' and is quickly becoming 'mainstream'.

For someone that want's to see Eve expand, you sure do rain on it's parade. When this game first came out, it was a few ships doing PvP. That was it. Then CCP decided to add some 'wild concepts like PvE'. What were they thinking? Lucky for us they didn't listen to players screaming out 'PvP content only'.

As for fixing all current content first, yeah. Everyone want's that. It's gonna take a while. After that then CCP should add brand new content like WiS when it's ready, not when it's half finished, buggy and incomplete.

You're still confused about what WiS and what Incarna was. Incarna is the name of an expansion that gave us a half-heated attempt at WiS. Just like you can recognize every other expansion as half-delivered content, why do you seem to have trouble recognizing this one for what it was?

What did WiS offer, and did it offer more than fixing old game mechanics? It offered a vision to the new player, the same vision CCP shared about the future, and yes it offered more than fixing old hardened game mechanics, to me and many others I know. Why? Because very minute game mechanics don't matter to a person that's not playing your game. As I mentioned earlier, I and many others started with Freelancer; I already enjoyed its mechanics and despite many friends telling me about EVE, after the trial I wasn't compelled enough to try a new sci-fi game (especially since EVE's flight mechanics are worse than Freelancer's). On-again off-again trials with EVE was all I could muster for a while, until I saw the E3 2008 WiS video. That was awe inspiring and enough to send me over the edge with a single message: EVE had a future larger than simply shooting in space.

And I'm willing to bet there are as many if not more here for that future, that sense of expansiveness and completeness, as there are here only for PvP.

I might have thought the same until you actually get out there and start to discover how secretly notorious this game is. From casual mentions among friends, to the obvious in circles of gamers, it wasn't until I accidentally brought it up with a waitress at a bar (and even asked her several 'test' questions to prove she wasn't bs-ing) that I started challenging just how niche this game is. One thing is for sure, just as I was, though millions may not be playing, they're aware of the game and millions are on the outside looking in for just any reason to get them started. WiS is that reason, and it's a reason that has the potential to bring in more players than any other feature. But like I said, they're watching, and Incarna and indefinitely delaying WiS... it's not helping our image.

I don't remember CCP ever saying they wouldn't fix existing issues, in fact it was just the opposite. They said they were going to do that with their 'Commitment to Excellence' campaign and then they never made good on it.

Again you label Incarna as WiS. That was Incarna, Dust and WOD they were working on.

Incarna's CQ is a malformed mutated version of Ambulation's WiS which is completely different.

Sorry, but your conclusions are wrong if you think Eve is still the same as it was back in 2003. Back then it was indeed a 'Niche' game.

Niche = relating to or aimed at a small specialized group or market
Mainstream = belonging to or characteristic of a principal, dominant, or widely accepted group, movement, style, etc.

When CCP decided to do it's massive advertizing campaign, they in fact decided to change Eve from being a 'Niche' game into a 'Mainstream' game.

Again you view the monstrosity of Incarna's CQ as Ambulation's WiS. If CCP had stayed with the original design and graphics engine of Ambulation's WiS, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The graphics engine for Incarna's CQ was indeed a test for WOD. Everyone was expecting Ambulation's WiS and it's graphics engine. What was promised and what we got is two different things.

to get your brain back ...................that way ----------------->

By the way, thanks for keeping this thread alive with your constant objectionable posting. Please keep doing it.

My vote has always been to let CCP do what they want and make the game they want to make. I say we shut the whiny little fucks up who *****, protest and shoot at statues.

It's a shame you aren't one of the smart people who realizes you're playing a roleplaying game.

You're just mad cause goth music sucks.

Whatever will I do?

Your character looks like some moody teenager going through her emo phase while struggling to deal with her monthly period.

And here you are on the forums acting like it.

See? Roleplaying isn't that hard.



Yes, kind of like boardgame describes candyland. But last I checked, you were supposed to play candyland on the board, hence the name.

That are you unable to follow a simple concept that is actually described in the name itself due to your horrifically mismanaged intelligence is another issue. Luckily for you most people are also idiots, so you are allowed a comfortable domain in the world. Just not a domain that matters.

My point, dear lady, is that I am clearly a happy person with a valid point of view while you are clearly a super sensitive brat who's only recourse is to throw about baseless personal insults like a child who didn't get their sweet roll.

No matter what infeasible things you keep dreaming up that CCP will never, ever be willing or able to introduce you all need to remember.

FiS is stagnating.

Deal with it.

P.S.
lol spaceships

P.P.S.
lol e-thugs

Love how you twist everything around, like how you continue to keep this thread alive, hate how you keep mistaking WiS for Incarna.

It's getting a little creepy seeing how obsessed people are with something that almost killed the game they claim to love so much.

How about logging into the game once in a while and try out some of the FiS that you're always ranting about instead of stalking this thread?

Huh... so you have your alts botting while you post here? Interesting.

Seems you havent read .. Since the ships we fly got crew.. regular battleship comes with about 1k or more crew members.. 70 percent of them makes it alive once the ship is destroyed.

You changed EVE for M.A.X.

But it is still true

Anyway board derelict ship.. in W-space f.e. you get out of your ship leave it there and board the wreck.
Someone comes steal your ship and you take your gun and shot yourself to get out

WiS is part of eve. Deal with it.

Probably too busy reading WoW web comics...

now we have a few butthurt people who want to rage on

God, you couldn't sound more juvenile if you tried.


Just to set the record straight, WiS wasn't abandoned. Work on it has been temporally postponed.

Whether you like it or not, CCP isn't going to abandon or remove WiS. Eventually more WiS content (Establishments, Character Interaction, etc) will be introduced into the game. However, looking at CCP's track record, it'll probably be in a year or two.

After reviewing this thread, I and the majority of other players responding to your posted replies have always stooped DOWN to your level. Never once have you tried to view the issue of WiS content with a neutral perspective.

Quite a few times you've stated that if someone could show you some sort of WiS content other than NPC lap dances, you would stop with the negative posting. I and a few others have posted plenty of ideas for WiS content that doesn't include doing a Fashion Show. Of course you just ignored it and continued with your negative posting.

You can hope, rant and rave all you want, CCP will not remove WiS. Like it or not, in the future CCP will add more WiS based content into the game..

I think there is some contradiction here. So you want them to develop WoD further which means putting more resources and manpower into it. Wasn't that your main argument against WiS/WoD becaus you want them to put all their workforce into EVE/FiS?

I understand that you think that the social aspect of WiS isn't something for you. I'm fine with that. Just want to say that socializing within EVE isn't the same as scoializing with people outside of the game. But it is an interesting aspect. Look at other MMO games (or even EVE itself). People are coming together in games to have partys, funerals, guild meetings, roleplay and many other things. Most of them in context of the game. It is much like having fun times with some friends, but most of your corp members you can't meet outside of the game or there are only very few occasions you can do so.

Beeing social strengthens the bonds in your corp. Of course all of that can be done without meeting with your avatars. But meeting with spaceships or to have just some portraits in a chat window is more abstract and not that immersive. Granted, avatars are still abstract. But it somewhat similar to why people are more comfortable to meet in person than to talk over the phone with each other.

Also if you really want them to finish WoD there is no reason why EVE couldn't benefit from it. What is so bad about some people playing "dress up" in station? What offends you so much about that, that you want those people to leave the game?
Think of it that way: every "dude dressing up" is a paying customer who pays money to CCP. CCP can use that money to survive and develop EVE (and their other games) further. Everyone gets something out of it.

Stations are save havens today, why should that change with WiS? A game like EVE needs some save havens or it creates too much uneasiness. Even when the "savety" is only perceived. I've got the impression you are just seeking new opportunities to grief the players you hate.

I'm not entirely against "unsafe" WiS establishments, we can argue about that. For example there could be unsafe places in some "lower" decks of stations. Creating something like high-sec and low-sec decks with different content. More risk in activities on the low-sec decks, but also more possible reward. Smuggling for example could led you down there, into the dark corners of a station...
This would also create the opportunity for CCP to create the content step by step. They can do the safer places first and then iterate and add the lower decks and introduce avatar combat with that. Maybe they have enough experience with such things through Dust until then that helps them design that portion of WiS.
This could let to combat in abandoned ship wrecks found through exploration or something in that direction.

There is a difference between griefing and pvp. Even from my pirating days I knew that.

Frankly you just sound mentally disturbed if you want to focus your hatred on one particular person that much.

So you act psychotic, and have also done your best to reflect that in your emo looking portrait.

In other words, you have no relevance whatsoever in any discussion. You are just looking for attention.

learn the "google" and do your homework.

Of course. Why should I take a risk if there is no reward in doing so? Makes no sense. EVE is already about risk vs. reward at every corner. People are choosing constantly what risk they are willing to take for what reward.
Why should there be a great risk in socializing? Makes no sense. But great risk in smuggling contraband, that makes perfectly sense. It also makes sense to apply a similar template that is used in the core game (high-sec, low-sec, etc.) to WiS locations.

And so what if I am looking for new ways to socialize with players? Same stupid question. Why is your "griefing" more relevant than socializing? EVE needs both and there has to be some kind of balance. The problem is that the (allowed) griefing-gameplay contradicts with other playing styles that are as valid as griefing. There is always a lot of tension between those player groups. Sadly that is nothing we can really change in a sandbox enviroment. But I think the different security zones in EVE do a really good job to keep this tension as low as possible. Therefore it is a good idea to have some similar system in stations.

I think you have the wrong impression of me. Did I say that I want to be safe of any kind of hostile actions? Again, read what I'm writing. I said that a game like EVE needs some save spots. You can agree with that or not. There are some of those ingame and it is mostly working as intended (eg high-sec itself, not safe entirely, but enough for most players). Sounds you are also one of the "remove high-sec"-supporters, arn't you? Think this is the wrong thread to discuss such fundamental principles of the game.

Just let's assume I really wouldn't undock if you are in system. How is that bothering you? Am I denieing you some kind of "rightful" kill or what is exactly your problem with that?
With the famous Hulkageddon approaching, many miners will stop mining because their think the risk is to high. Most of them will just do something else they perceive as not as risky. After the event is over they will start to mine again and be happy about the high mineral prices. Do they also play the wrong game? Seems they get along fine with it... (okay, there are some raging morons who can't and in this case, I'm on your side).

I recomend you try the "hide posts" feature of the forums. There are certain posters who seem to have nothing to add but negativity to any discusion, once you remove them most threads take on a much more positive and civil nature.

Discussion...

I love how you never branch into the other concepts - Station Gambling, Corporate/Privately Owned Kiosks, Bars, General Hang Outs. Not to mention, Corporate War Rooms, etc. etc.

We have explained a lot and there have been a lot of ideas for WiS content but you are not satisfied with them. You have every right to state your opinion and I'm actually very grateful that there are people pointing out the week points of that ideas. But that doesn't mean that you are automatically right or that there is no overall value in WiS as you keep stating.

I and others have already posted in this thread plenty of WiS oriented game play content but you and a couple of other anti WiS posters continue to ignore it. This tells me the intention is to start a flame war and berate others while ranting about non relevant issues. Maybe it's time to start using the 'REPORT' option.

It doesn't take very much imagination to come up with various ideas for game play content. Hell, I'm sure you could even come up with one or two ideas yourself.

So, thumbs up to our trolls, sometimes they are actually useful and help to understand a different point of view .

Am I understanding this correctly... Mostly aimed at the hardcore WiS opponents in this threadnaught...

You hate WiS, you hate the concept of it, and you will never use it ever. So, much in the same way that you never used CQ once and disabled station environment and started shooting statues for hours.. you'll just not use it because it's not worth it and it will kill EVE, etc.

BUT.

According to your logic, it would need "gameplay elements" to be accepted. So let me get this straight. You completely hate it, but you'd like for it to have essential gameplay elements (i.e. probably not totally optional and somewhat compulsory). Basically, arguing against yourselves.

I've seen a few decent ideas from the WiS haters, albeit sarcastic, but still some progress. Like bringing a head to the bounty office and ripping implants from it. Neat concept, but EVE is rated Teen, so no... implied perhaps, but no.

CCP, tell me WiS is dead!, I will unsub my seven accounts, kill my corp and alliance and find another game to give you $600 a month to.

Do I have to be a wood elf bard again??????

It worked well in other games, why do the haters think that it can't work in EVE?

I suggest publishing a devblog and reading the comments, or possibly a survey if you are not sure about what people want to see in WiS.

Meanwhile, i just noticed one funny fact.

In these "spaceship game" forums, the two longer threads are about human-like avatars.

Oh by the way, you did see the Dev's posted replies in this thread regarding WiS, right? Guess all that's left to say is 'Told you so'.