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Puppy Wuff
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.07.05 18:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I tried to look for a topic discussing this but I was just reading through things and watching video's as well as doing low/null sec hacking. My skills in it are not maxed out but I feel like this whole system is more luck then anything. Some times there are certain cans I get where I end up with back to back reinforce nodes some times even a 3rd and I don't see how its possible to complete them in that situation.
I have always been taught in eve that everything was skill based. Some one with more skills and general knowledge of the topic would do better then some one with less skills and less knowledge on the topic. I can't help but feel like this hacking game almost pure luck based. I am not talking about whats in the cans but the mini-game it self. I have gone out with my friend that has max skills in the subject of the hacking mini-game as well as a tech 2 frig to do it in and all the extra goodies you can get in rigs and such. And a majority of the time I will see him struggling just as much as me if not more in certain situations. It seems like for the most part your skills don't matter. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8943
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just for the record, I don't like the mini hacking game or the loot spew. It's a waste of time and nothing more than a click-fest for low reward at great risk.
Completing the hack and chasing the loot on just one can greatly redirects the pilots attention from the UI / Overview / D-scan and any on-grid activity at least for a couple of minutes. Multiply that time by the amount of cans present at the site and the pilots relative safety is now greatly compromised which allows much more chance of being surprised and taken by unfriendly forces.
Well, I think I've made my opinion of this new mini hacking game quite clear.
Now, about it being luck based, that could be true. I think most people will say it's due to RNG. That's always their fallback answer around here.
As for me, I have maxed skills and use T2 modules. That's it, nothing more. I don't have any problem completing the hacks. I just simply click, and click, and click, and click, and click, etc. The luck part is during the loot spew, hopefully get the right cans before they de-spawn.
As I said before, the mini hacking game and loot spew is nothing more than a giant click fest which makes the pilots ship a giant red bulls-eye target for unfriendly forces.
DMC |
Moth Eisig
The Trident Brotherhood
25
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are elements of both. Being able to do some simple math and having an idea of where the core is most likely to show up will help, but sometimes luck will be against you, and no matter how well you play the game, you just won't have a chance even with maxed out skills. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8944
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sorry, I disagree.
I have no problem completing the hack just fine. I haven't had to do any second attempts nor have I had any cans blow up due to unsuccessful hack attempts.
Maxed skills and top equipment definitely makes a difference. With that being said, I still don't like the mini hacking game or loot spew.
DMC |
Puppy Wuff
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.07.05 21:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Moth Eisig wrote:There are elements of both. Being able to do some simple math and having an idea of where the core is most likely to show up will help, but sometimes luck will be against you, and no matter how well you play the game, you just won't have a chance even with maxed out skills.
Yea thats honestly how I feel about it as well. Really feel like its a game of chess.. Granted having max skills do help yes. But for any one out there saying they have never had a fail attempt or trouble with one is either not doing them in nullsec/low sec or is lying in my opinion. Its sorta why I question why have a chance of luck in a game like this besides the obvious luck factor of what could be in the loot chest. As far as opening it up I had always thought it should be purely skill based.
People can look at it how they want to but there is chance of luck in this mechanic for sure. Its fun at times but other times not so much fun when your having to watch Dscan and multitask while having a big hacking screen on your window. Its a cool idea just not so much fun especially the spewing of loot.
We live in an age of jump clones and other amazing technologies. A net to catch loot..nope...I don't know that whole idea was silly to me lol. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1493
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Posted - 2013.07.05 21:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd say largely luck. I have a max skilled pilot with T2 mods and rigs, and I have a fair number of failed attempts in wormhole relic and data sites. Sometimes I just get bad luck and run into like 3 reinforcement nodes in a row or crap like that.
Outside of wormholes it still feels mostly random luck but they aren't nearly as hard. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5411
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Posted - 2013.07.05 22:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Sorry, I disagree.
I have no problem completing the hack just fine. I haven't had to do any second attempts nor have I had any cans blow up due to unsuccessful hack attempts.
Maxed skills and top equipment definitely makes a difference. With that being said, I still don't like the mini hacking game or loot spew.
DMC Where do you do these sites? Being able to do them all without any unsuccesful attempts suggests you're an empire explorer. There the sites are trivial with T2 equipment, but elsewhere you can still encounter hard hacks and certainly will fail a small percentage of them no matter what your skills are or what equipment you use. |
Tarikla
Projet Aurora
33
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Posted - 2013.07.05 23:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
The loot spew only need you to be organized and know in advance which can to pick. Also ALWAYS pick the first cans spewed first, as they will despawn first.
The Hacking game can feel kind of luck-based when you come across multiple reinforcement nodes, but that dosen't happen THAT often, and usually the second attempt prove much more successfull.
After that, don't forget that only the loot spew is timed, not the hacking game. So you really shouldn't hurry yourself in the game and check for D-scan. The only scenario where you should get at all cost a can open and hurry is when you see a faction tower BPC in it. Otherwise it's not worth the risk if your d-scan is acting up.
And don't waste time with petty loot : scan a can, target what you want, and leave behind everything else, even if you can still pick some cans after you got what you wanted. If it's not on the cargo scan, it's wortheless. If it's in the cargo scan, check for price and don't pick worthless skillbook/useless bpc and such.
It's not for everybody, but i consider it a vast improvment over the old hacking/archeology system. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
703
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Posted - 2013.07.06 01:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Considering percentage of successful hacks is around 66% (dev blog with statiscitcs) and each can provide 2 attempts - amount of opened cans is close to 100% (66% + 66% = 132% probability to open a can from two attempts, probability to lose a can is 1:9).
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Sorry, I disagree.
I have no problem completing the hack just fine. I haven't had to do any second attempts nor have I had any cans blow up due to unsuccessful hack attempts.
Maxed skills and top equipment definitely makes a difference. With that being said, I still don't like the mini hacking game or loot spew.
DMC
TL;DR neither skill, nor luck, just train "skills" to 5. |
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.07.06 07:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Considering percentage of successful hacks is around 66% (dev blog with statiscitcs) and each can provide 2 attempts - amount of opened cans is close to 100% (66% + 66% = 132% probability to open a can from two attempts, probability to lose a can is 1:9).
It`s hacking attempts not first time hacking attempts. Both attempts are counted in that percentage, you don`t add anything to it. |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3087
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Posted - 2013.07.06 08:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
There's a minor element of decision-making involved, but hacking isn't really difficult in the usual sense with max skills. I find the both the hacking and loot spew much more entertaining than "engage module, wait" and have no problems paying attention to surroundings while doing it. Getting the right cans is also easy, the pace is very relaxed. I've failed a handful of attempts due to drifting out of module range (clicked approach on wrong hackable object, lol)
I currently often triplebox (old-school alt-tabbed style) my hacker, a combat site runner and gassing Venture in different systems in lowsec and the new minigames haven't made it any more hard.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
180
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's possible to get unlucky in this new minigame, like getting three 90 firewalls in a row and no way around. But that doesn't happen often. In most cases you can hack the container by using the right strategy. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1496
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'd be curious to hear if anyone here has done any higher end WH hacking. I have found them far more difficult than any in k-space. They also don't have any limitation on the cans. The worst case I've had is 5-6 attempts before success.
It can be really frustrating to have max skills and then get random bad luck of firewalls and reinforcement nodes out of the gate. |
Puppy Wuff
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.07.06 15:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I'd be curious to hear if anyone here has done any higher end WH hacking. I have found them far more difficult than any in k-space. They also don't have any limitation on the cans. The worst case I've had is 5-6 attempts before success.
It can be really frustrating to have max skills and then get random bad luck of firewalls and reinforcement nodes out of the gate.
That's how I end up feeling about it. People can argue that there is not luck involved with this minigame but honestly there is. I have literally only had one direction to go off the start and that first circle was a reinforce node and then the next one after that was a reinforce node. It seems like people have mixed feelings about it which is understandable. I don't mind the loot spew just because I use a cargo scanner and that makes life easier.
Its just in situations were the first two nodes you click are reinforce nodes I don't see how skill can play into that. Granted in the long run people with max skills and the right equipment will have higher success. The question I really tried to discuss most about is if this mini-game should be luck based or not. Cause any one who does not think there is at least a little bit of luck involved is silly. To be clear not at all talking about loot spew. There is actually less luck involved in that then doing the mini game in my opinion. Its fairly easy to scan the cargo container see its a bpo then just click all the data cans lol.
Over all I do totally think its fun and happy its here. I just wanted to see what some of the maxed out skill players and what not think about it. Cause some of these 0.0 sites have some crazy cans and WH's as well lol. I wanted to see if its truly worth committing to the full training to get the maximum success chance for it or if I would get similar results either way.
I am not going to even try to pretend I know anything much about this game so another question id have for people is. What skills do you train up to help with your hacking or is it just hacking and archaeology. Any kinda rigging or special equipment that helps deal with the stuff besides the obvious tech 2 version of the scanners? Also curious as to what your max starting coherence can be and things of that nature. |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
182
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Posted - 2013.07.06 20:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Puppy Wuff wrote:I just wanted to see what some of the maxed out skill players and what not think about it. Cause some of these 0.0 sites have some crazy cans and WH's as well lol. I wanted to see if its truly worth committing to the full training to get the maximum success chance for it or if I would get similar results either way.
It's definitely worth it to max skill and use all the best equipment. I hack some containers on the flesh of my teeth. Every little bit can make the difference. But strategy is important aswell. In the beginning i tried to avoid all firewalls and click whatever else nodes are left instead. This can bite you in the ass tho when you open suppresors and restoration nodes then. My (more succesful) strategy now is to go straight for where i think the core is (usualy it's on the opposite of the starting point somewhere within 4-6 nodes). I only take excursions to other parts of the grid when i need tools to move on. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
345
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Posted - 2013.07.08 20:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I'd say largely luck. I have a max skilled pilot with T2 mods and rigs, and I have a fair number of failed attempts in wormhole relic and data sites. Sometimes I just get bad luck and run into like 3 reinforcement nodes in a row or crap like that.
Outside of wormholes it still feels mostly random luck but they aren't nearly as hard.
I can routinely do data/relic sites in 0.5 and 0.6 space. I've done 20 hacks or so, and the only one I failed was because I was inattentive. It's super easy, no challenge at all, but I imagine hack sites are harder in low-sec and in wormhole space. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2117
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Posted - 2013.07.09 02:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
hacking is now random clicking, nothing more. |
Tarikla
Projet Aurora
35
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Posted - 2013.07.09 16:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
I looked up somes intel on WH hacking and it really seem more luck-based than anything in k-space. I can see the frustration, but i think WH hacking is more based around the "limitless attempt, only have to fight at each unsuccessfull attempt" scenario, while K-Space is about the "2 attempt and kaboom". You WILL open the can eventually in WH,because it never explode, you only have to fight your way through more if you are unlucky/got less skill.
Also, remember than in k-space, if you open the can on the second attempt, there is more cans who spew out at the end, so it's more difficult to get what you want than if you suceed at first try. WH hacking also don't have this.
So i think it's all fair, you only have to get that the philosophy behing WH hacking is different than the one behind K-space hacking. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: Where do you do these sites? Being able to do them all without any unsuccesful attempts suggests you're an empire explorer. There the sites are trivial with T2 equipment, but elsewhere you can still encounter hard hacks and certainly will fail a small percentage of them no matter what your skills are or what equipment you use.
He doesn't leave high sec
Source: I stalk him on a day to day basis.
And yeah, null sec ones can be tough and IMO aren't worth doing without at least T2 modules, maybe some rigs. I still screw up a can every now and then due to rushing/not paying attention/just plain bad luck. Things like 3-5 restoration nodes or suppressors can screw you fast. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: As I said before, the mini hacking game and loot spew is nothing more than a giant click fest which makes the pilots ship a giant red bulls-eye target for unfriendly forces.
God forbid you have some actual player interaction or a bit of risk for your reward right?
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Vartan Sarkisian
Inner Visions Of Sound Mind
75
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Posted - 2013.07.09 17:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wonder if someone could advise on this hacking game, some i win, some i lose, but on every game is there a definite win/win situation? What i mean by that is each game definitely able to be won.
I ask because on a few recent games i click nodes and then come across an AV node, ive no utilities and no other route so i have to punch through it and so my cohesion / strength goes down, I complete it and a few click on I get another, again no other route, no utilities and punching through this one will fail the hack as my cohesion and strength has gone.
It seems to be down to sheer luck and the fact you only get two attempts is unfair. especially as if you are successful it is mainly luck that you pick up anything valuable (if indeed there is anything available in it.
I don't mind the game as such but I think it needs to be completable each time, in that there is A way to get to the core with sufficient strength to open it, also the thing should not explode after 2 attempts. Or if they are going to make it like that the items within have to be worthwhile, picking up some metals scraps of hydrogen batteries is pretty lame. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
NeoShocker
Interstellar eXodus The Retirement Club
171
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Posted - 2013.07.10 04:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Spend several hours on it. I don 't mind the new hackng thing, but its a bit of click fest as someone said. Now, the most annoying part is the scatter cans. I absolutely hate it, but hey, gotta earn isk..
I earned probably 3b, and lost about 500m to 800m worth of materals of failed collecting the cans. My success rate on the hacking is about 90% success rate on first try. 95% success rate to actually open all the cans (first or 2nd try). in one site.
It isn't hard at all. But it is a bit luck based. Don't you hate it when there is quite a bit of firewalls and stuffs? Especially one AFTER another like 2-3 times in the row?
I would like it better if CCP give us a high slot mod for additional in-board tractor beam. Then maybe the loss won't be as ... "significant" on those scatter cans ... Or at least the tractor beam pulls in loot "immediately" when you're so close and tractor another. 4-5'ish seconds is a long time for a single can ...
Another thing I hate about the scatter cans, is the random useless item. Carbon? Data sheets? Electronic parts? Ok. I understand if failing on the first try, but getting them on the first try? That is ****** up. |
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