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Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:19:00 - [1] Hey all, I just quit my day job as a miner. I've invested so much time in my skills and now they are all at lvl 5 for mining, refining, industry, astrology etc etc. Made plenty of money and even got a Ferox that I take out for a spin ratting once in a while. Now I have enough for my new baby.... a Raven. Not going to buy it yet until I get some basic skills in WCS, Shield Hardeners, Med Hybrid Turrets, PDU, MWD etc. I think going into 0.4 and below should be okay with this... guess I'll find out. What I want to know is about sec status. Say I'm flying around and I see a player with a bounty on his head and a negative sec status. I assume I cannot just fire at will without having to reap the consequences of a drop in my sec status. But letÆs say that he locks onto me and my ship auto locks back. Can I fire then without reprisals? Or do I have to wait until he fires the first shot at me? Even then if I'm lucky enough to take him down does my sec status take a hit? How about if I lock onto someone without firing, but they fire at me? Does this mean IÆm free to ædefendÆ myself without taking a sec hit? Is the fact that I target locked someone first taken into account? Not that I want to turn into a pirate, but IÆm thinking about becoming a bounty hunter. In Eve, does the fact that they have a sec status of à letÆs say -5.0 dissolve me of any consequences? Probably not IÆm assuming. But then how does a bounty hunter not become the target of other bounty hunters?
Brutal Butcher	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:28:00 - [2] locking someone doesnt result in sec hit, u can maybe just scan someones cargo or equipment and thats not illegal. if shoot, u get a sec hit, unless he does first, so u got right to defend urself. and its pretty obvious u wont be the target of bountyhunters if u dont have a bounty on ur head. they can put one on ur head if ur sec status is under -1.0 podding someone results in a serious security hit, but thats necesary to get the bounty. if a guy has -5.0 sec it means hes as dangerous as in 0.0 system hope that helps
Drayce	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:32:00 - [3] Hiya Eithan; first off, you can forget about targetting consequences as there are none... other than letting the other person know that you may be hostile to them. As far who it is that gets the sec hit, it is totally dependant on who it is that fires first. The person that fires first will be 'flagged' (Flashing red box around their ship in the overview) and then anyone can attack back or defend at no risk of sec status loss. The rules change once more when you leave empire (0.0 space), because this is classed as 'lawless' space there are no repercussions for attacking someone first.
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Eithan Cole on 04/12/2005 02:45:37 Okay, so if I was in Empire space and I see someone with a bounty of say 50K and a sec status of -2.0 (I have no idea if thatÆs even remotely accurate). I can't fire at them without getting a sec hit myself - I'd have to persuade them into firing the first shot - then it's free for all. By taking out these 'Pirates' that Concord have placed bounties on, is there any sec increase for the player who takes them down? Or is that only for rats? I guess I should go see if any Agents will talk to me. I never finished the tutorial and now that agent wonÆt even speak to me after I ignored her. IÆve never seen any agents in any station that will talk to me. How do I change this?
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:00:00 - [5] Edited by: jbob2000 on 04/12/2005 03:01:59 Player Pirates must be under -5.0 for you to be able to shoot them without consequences. Also, if you are shot at a belt by a player, you can fire back without taking a sec hit. If someone shoots you at a gate, you can fire back, but they will most likely be very far away or tanking the sentries. In my opinion, a Raven is way overkill for 0.4-0.1 ratting. A somewhat trained ferox pilot can do this easily, a well trained caracal/moa pilot could do this easily. By taking your first BS into 0.4 to do some ratting, you're just setting yourself up for failure. Eventually, you will have a run in with pirates, and a ferox is less of a loss than a raven. Since you're caldari, train your missile skills. Forget about hybrid guns as caldari have no viable hybrid gun setups for ravens or feroxes. Cruise missiles for ravens, heavy missiles for ferox. And then a solid shield tank. I think you can get a large shield booster on a ferox, but i'm not entirely sure. In anycase, T2 tanking mods really do make a difference, and if you cant get a hold of those, go for best named, 2nd bast named, etc. Edit: Btw, you should turn off autolock. Its on the main ESC menu in "Autolock back targets" and then a textbox with a number in it, or something like that. The number should be set to zero because autolock can be taken advantage of in wars or by annoying alts.
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:12:00 - [6] Thanks jBob. Yes, I will train up on missiles instead. I'm not sure I understand why having a Raven in 0.1 - 0.4 is setting myself up for failure? Surely by going into less secure space it is better to have a bigger ship with more armaments and tank capability? Or am I missing something?
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:18:00 - [7] I didn't know exactly how to word it, so let me explain. If you're spending all your time in low sec, you're bound to have run ins with pirates. It's a given fact now in Eve. Ravens can tank alot, and can take out multiple BS spawns in 0.0. You aren't using the ship to its fullest capacity by fitting it with med hybrids or heavy missiles. You would be better off by doing level 4 missions with it or getting into 0.0 space to do some ratting there. 0.4 to 0.1 can be done easily in an Assault Frigate, like the Harpy, or in your ferox. Now since you are bound to run into pirates, you may not always get away. Would it be easier to lose a 30mil+fittings ship (af would be like 14mil+fittings) or a 105mil ship + fittings. Do you see what i'm getting at?
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:33:00 - [8] Yes I see your point, and I'm probably only showing my ignorance at the PvP aspect of Eve when I say this, but here goes anyway. I agree that I will run into pirates while in low sec (I already have with my Osprey in 0.4 and needless to say I lost the ship). They maybe completly hopeless and I fight them off with my Ferox. Maybe they aren't so hopeless but not great and they manage to take me out and pod kill me. If I was in the Raven, I would have won that battle. I think no matter how skilled you are or how big of a ship you have, there's always someone bigger or smarter. I haven't bought the Raven yet, and I don't plan to until I have the skills to defend it properly. I'll look at getting heavy missiles or cruise missles trained up to at least lvl 3. That's if I even but it now, starting to have second thoughts about spending 100mil......
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:39:00 - [9] Here's another suggestion though. You seem deteremined to get to the next "level" of ships. If you're going to do some ratting in 0.4-0.1, you can do it in a Scorpion, whilst also having protection from solo/small gangs of pirates. What you could do with the scorp is have some medium drones, cruise launchers, a solid tank that only takes 6-7 med slots, and then 1-2 ECM multispectrals in the remaining slots. Low slots would be all power diagnostics. No gurantees on fittings, but ECM is very effective in PVP. Btw, scorp is about 35-45mils cheaper.
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 04:18:00 - [10] Sorry jbob. I don't mean to sound ungratefull for the advise. I've been fairly excited about getting the Raven thinking that I could go have some fun with a smaller change of being taken out. I would feel kinda bummed if I lost it on the first outing. I think what I'll do is train up on the tank stuff and better missiles and take the Ferox out into 0.3 - 0.4 and see how I do. Then maybe I'll think again about the Raven a little later. Or take the smaller step and go for the Scorpion. Thanks! :)

F'nog	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Eithan Cole Sorry jbob. I don't mean to sound ungratefull for the advise. I've been fairly excited about getting the Raven thinking that I could go have some fun with a smaller change of being taken out. I would feel kinda bummed if I lost it on the first outing. I think what I'll do is train up on the tank stuff and better missiles and take the Ferox out into 0.3 - 0.4 and see how I do. Then maybe I'll think again about the Raven a little later. Or take the smaller step and go for the Scorpion. Thanks! :) You'd be surprise how easy it is to take out a BS if improperly equipped or when the player has improper skills for them. BSes are slow, handle like an obese cow, and are damn hard to miss. Many players have thought the same as you, only to lose their BSes to fights that their old ship would have won, or at least survived. You really don't want to equip a BS solely with cruiser gear. You'll actually do worse than if you were in the cruiser or BC. So enjoy your Ferox for now. You'll have plenty of fun with it, and if you lose it, you'll be able to recover much more quickly. Originally by: rowbin hod Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.04 08:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Eithan Cole Sorry jbob. I don't mean to sound ungratefull for the advise. I've been fairly excited about getting the Raven thinking that I could go have some fun with a smaller change of being taken out. I would feel kinda bummed if I lost it on the first outing. I think what I'll do is train up on the tank stuff and better missiles and take the Ferox out into 0.3 - 0.4 and see how I do. Then maybe I'll think again about the Raven a little later. Or take the smaller step and go for the Scorpion. Thanks! :) To be blunt, you have a good chance of losing your ship in an unimaginably embarassing way if you lack the skills to equip it as nature intended. Buy a raven and parade it around by all means. For pvp, buy a caracal and fly around lowsec. The loss will be less painful and a wholelot more fun
Jalia Kovac	Posted - 2005.12.04 10:45:00 - [13] If you have your heart set on a Raven, I suggest using it to run agent missions. Of course, it would slow you down doing L1 and L2 missions. Doing L3 missions with it would ease you into getting comfortable with the ship, even though the ship is probably best suited for level 4 missions. The best philosophy is use what you can afford to lose. If you want to go belt ratting in <0.5 or take it into PvP, then you'd be best be prepared to lose it. That means it must be insured and you can afford to payout the 30M in replacement insurance and another 15M+ in fittings. Believe it or not, the people here really are giving you good advice. Test the waters in an inexpensive cruiser or perhaps a more expensive battlecruiser. A well-fitted cruiser can happily belt rat down to 0.1. ► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄
Amira Silvermist	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Eithan Cole I just quit my day job as a miner.... Now I have enough for my new baby.... a Raven. I think going into 0.4 and below should be okay with this... guess I'll find out. At that point my alarm siren started howling... Short Version: Dont do it! Long Version: I think I can assume that you have: a) never been in low sec or 0.0 b) no pvp experience at all Dont get me wrong, I am quite a newbie, but I am pretty sure that you will lose your raven if you meet a player pirate. PLEASE use frigs or insured and cheaply outfitted cruisers to start your pvp career. Dont use any named or T2 stuff and make sure you dont have any implants that you dont want to lose! I dont want to see you turning bitter because it took you weeks to earn something and only seconds to lose it. Removed signature image, resize to fit forum policy of 24000 bytes. Thanks =) - Daigon
Ozzie Asrail	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:26:00 - [15] I think what people are tying to tell you that there is no "I win" button. A poorly setup BS or setup for the wrong task can fall prey to a tackling frigate and a cruiser, 2 ships worth about 10mil could beat one worth 100mil. Take some cheap cruisers out first and have a play with the setups on them, see what works and what doesn't.
Tony Fats	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:29:00 - [16] Unspoken rule of pvp : If you undock with it, you have to assume you will lose it. Don't be stupid and ** away a Raven. Don't even away a BC. Outfit a bunch of frigates and go have some fun, target some people, maybe they will fire first, see if you can destroy a ship in .5 before the cops can get to you. Experiment. Try different mods. ** away 10 frigates for a grand total of 2 mil, make back an equal amount in insurance. On your first time to 0.0, do it in a shuttle and make a clone. Practice jumping around. If you meet someone at a gate, fly toward the gate but don't jump out, see if he locks you. Jumping gate to gate make a bookmark in the middle of the jump. If gate is camped, jump back to SS, jump to another gate and try to make it to your target gate from that direction. Set the gate to orbit 10k and as the gates align, make a BM, boom suddenly you have an insta. You have to walk before you can run, so make your dumb mistakes in small ships, screw around, be annoying, lock strangers, try to kill an indy. Thats how you learn, thats how you become desensitized to danger. Vast majority of ppl in game are scared to step out of empire, they think there are savage bands of cutthroats behind every gate, their fear and inexperience paralyzes them, you can be a lowsec denizen or you can be the savage cutthroat that everyone is scared of. Oh and one more thing. Set up your overview. Make people at war with you and with a security status -5 or less blink bright red. If you see someone blinking on your overview, you will know you can attack them without consequence. Good luck grasshoppa.
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:24:00 - [17] Thanks everyone. I was kinda excited about being able to afford the Raven plus fittings and insurance, but I see the wisdom in your advice. For now I think I'll buy a Caracal (because I prefer missiles) and venture into 0.1 - 0.4 space and get some practice. I have been into as low as 0.3 but never into 0.0. I think that will be a while away yet before I have the skills to survive that challenge. Basically I assume from the above posts that a BS is actually worse than a cruiser or BC in low sec as they are slow and not so good at close combat. Where are they used then? In fleet battles? Not meant to be used for solo players (I wish I wasn't but my work doesn't really allow me to be on often enough to commit to joining a corp). Thanks for the advice. It wasn't lost on me; you've changed my mind about buying the Raven.
Aeaus	Posted - 2005.12.04 22:10:00 - [18] Err no you're getting it wrong. A raven is basically the top of the line warship (excluding dreadnaughts since they're not in the same role), to fly it successfully you need to have good skills both character wise and more importantly personal skillwise. I would say you need at least 3 - 5 million SP in combat to fly this ship successfully. Don't really try it with less skills as it'll be worse then your lower level ships which you have enough SP to fly properly. If you are interested in pvp do it with cheap ships before trying it with a raven.
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Aeaus Err no you're getting it wrong. A raven is basically the top of the line warship (excluding dreadnaughts since they're not in the same role), to fly it successfully you need to have good skills both character wise and more importantly personal skillwise. I would say you need at least 3 - 5 million SP in combat to fly this ship successfully. Don't really try it with less skills as it'll be worse then your lower level ships which you have enough SP to fly properly. If you are interested in pvp do it with cheap ships before trying it with a raven. Err, no, YOU're getting it all wrong. Raven's are top of the line BS for Caldari Assault BS (scorpion being support). They are way overkill for what he's doing. Top of the line for what he wants is a ferox, and even that is a bit over the top. Try it with a caracal, its much more of a challenge and it will get you used to managing your shields and cap. With a raven, you wont even need to activate your shield booster whilst fighting in 0.4 to 0.1
Kaaii	Posted - 2005.12.05 01:00:00 - [20] Ive got this Blackbird that is really pretty good for npc'n in 04 to 01. Ive got it shield tanked (of all things) and I get more shield then a stock Scorpion. (Im sure this will change with RMR and EW'n rats) Also put on T2 shield resistance amps, 2 x WCS and you have a pretty survivable gate runner as well. For offense, you have to go with some named heavy launchers, and I put a fast firing small hybrid to handle close in. Its pretty skill intensive tho, I blow some fuses on the core now and then... Fun ship, always liked it. and can't wait for the 2 new varients.. "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."

coredump	Posted - 2005.12.05 08:14:00 - [21] Just for info: I have about 15 mil SP and i'd NEVER EVER fly a BS solo into unsafe areas when i'm not absolutely sure that the area is secured by friendlies. A solo-bs is the ship with the least survival chance of all ships against a pvp-attack. The onliest thing that makes you survive an attack from other players is speed. Pvp attacks usually consist of at least one interceptor, that webs&scrambles and several bs fitted for all out damage, which can kill ever single ship in less than 20 seconds. Nothing can tank a group of gank-bs. Your only chance of survival is to escape the inties.
Winter Star	Posted - 2005.12.05 10:52:00 - [22] Just to back up what others have been saying, you should be fine in 0.4 with a cruiser. i flew into 0.4 for the first time with a caracal a few days ago fearing the worst....... In actuality it's become the safest most lucrative hunting so far. Find a pretty empty set of low sec systems - i've been around raravath. You should be able to kill most things in one or two shots at most...... Only guys like Juggernauts and Beasts give me any pain at all - Ravagers and True sanshas are fairly simlpe so long as you manage your shield and cap boosting sensibly.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.12.05 11:31:00 - [23] Just a general view on PvP from my own experiences. Let ">>" means eat but not neccessarily kill them. frigates class >> battleships class >> cruisers class >> frigates class Frigates class means all the small ships incl. interceptors, assault frigates. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Tappad Bakomenvagn	Posted - 2005.12.05 11:36:00 - [24] People here really bein helpful and if you don't take their advise you will most likely learn something new in a very expensive way. I am very much a carebear and I have been soloing EvE since I started playing in the beginning of 2004. I lost a number of frigs and cruisers to gatecampers in the beginning and it was so annoying I decided never to set foot in 0.4 or lower space with this char. But during the last half-year I took the risk of entering 0.4 space to finish a mission and lost two uninsured ravens to gate campers (no poddings tho so still have my implants). After the second one I closed my account and stayed away for 4 months. A friend of mine spent months mining for a Raven and 2 days after gettign the raven I recieved a mail that he lost his Raven to gatecampers and had decided quit EvE Noone is telling you that entering 0.4 space will insta-blow your ship, BUT fact is that sooner or later (probably sooner) you will, without a doubt, run into a bunch of gate campers who will scramble, web and kill your precious Raven and no matter how many skills you have when you end up in that situation, all you can do is sit there and watch you ship blow up. -T "Our profile says you're trying to con the street into killing you when you're not looking."
Filan	Posted - 2005.12.05 14:33:00 - [25] i goto .4 in my Kessie, never even risk my badger unless i have adv recon on the route. my kestrel can enter warp before the post jump decloak so a camper will only see my exhaust trail as i enter warp. not to mention i have 3-4 ready to go kestrels sitting in my hanger. now if only gate campers didnt use Battleships id go pop a few bloodclaws into them lol.
Jalia Kovac	Posted - 2005.12.05 14:54:00 - [26] Oh, and if you are planning a trip into low sec, it's often wise to pop open the map and check your route for trouble. Use the kills/pods in last hour/24 hours and to a lesser extent pilots in space/docked to help decide what might be best to avoid. As a rule, it might be best to avoid any chokepoints between Empire and 0.0 and those (often 0.4) connecting systems between the Empires. Happy hunting! ► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄
Halada	Posted - 2005.12.05 15:41:00 - [27] Well thanks you guys, you convinced me not to get a Raven right away :) I was anxious to get a Raven, but I don't even have a properly fitted Moa at the moment. I'm training gunnery and missiles to make it a killing machine so I can get more experience. Losing a 100m ship would royaly **** me off.
Tappad Bakomenvagn	Posted - 2005.12.05 17:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Halada Well thanks you guys, you convinced me not to get a Raven right away :) I was anxious to get a Raven, but I don't even have a properly fitted Moa at the moment. I'm training gunnery and missiles to make it a killing machine so I can get more experience. Losing a 100m ship would royaly **** me off. Actually I think you should get a Raven, just stay in 0.5 or higher space =) Raven is a fun ship especially if you have spent most of your time in a mining barge or mining fitted cruiser, all that power will make you sit there and laugh all day =) For a level 3 mission runner I think Raven is awesome to use atleast in the deadspace thingies =) Probably a little bit overkill for most, but NPC rats dont have feelings and won't cry nerf... -T "Our profile says you're trying to con the street into killing you when you're not looking."
Butter Dog	Posted - 2005.12.05 17:28:00 - [29] Lowsec (0.1-0.4) is loads of fun in a well equipped cruiser (though not too well equipped, you have to be comfortable losing it). You would be surpised what you can kill. Go around locking people in the belts (not the miners though, or friendly corps of course - I would stick to at least equally experienced players in known pirate/NPC/Noob corps for a fair fight). If they open fire on you after you lock them, its a good chance to test your PVP skills without a sec hit. But yeah, the advice here is spot on, I can't add to that really. The Blackbird is fun - fit it out with sensor dampers and you'll have any would-be pirate screaming with frustration at his 100 second lock time ;)
Eithan Cole	Posted - 2005.12.05 22:28:00 - [30] Thank you all for the advice. As I said earlier, you have changed my mind and I will not be buying the Raven. Obviously it is not meant to be used solo and requires friends to help defend it which I don't have as I can't join a corp. Oh well. Looks like its back to boring old mining in high sec areas. Anyone need a loan? I got a spare 100mil...



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