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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
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Posted - 2011.10.25 08:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
To wrap it up, yes you should train for incursions, this is what you should do. But While mining isn't as lucrative, it is lucrative enough and some do it because they enjoy it. It's not your cup of tea and i understand that.
But do remember one thing.
When you will get billions of isks from incursions and buy those nice modules, the amo, the ships... Always remember that what you are buying is the work of an industrial. 
Sure they aren't as rich as you are. But hey, they made that ship of yours. I think that alone is enough to justify going the industrial path. |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:To wrap it up, yes you should train for incursions, this is what you should do. But While mining isn't as lucrative, it is lucrative enough and some do it because they enjoy it. It's not your cup of tea and i understand that. But do remember one thing. When you will get billions of isks from incursions and buy those nice modules, the amo, the ships... Alway remember that what you are buying is thanks to work of an industrial. Sure they aren't as rich as you are. But hey, they made that ship of yours. I think that alone is enough to justify going the industrial path.
That's the problem. In -every- mmo I've -ever- played(which is probably more then the mass majority of mmo players) I've always played with economy. Mining. Resource gathering
In 9/10 of those MMO's my choice was fun(as it is here, to me) and ALSO profitable. Here it's just not profitable. And sure, you may respect us industrial types but the mass majority does not. We get suicide ganked; spit on; shat on; told our profession is a stupid choice because they can do the same with minerals from loot?
Maybe CCP will see this and aim for change.
Till then, I'm going to play another MMO that isn't as stressful for a miner and I'm actually rewarded for doing the grunt work instead of **** on. |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Here it's just not has profitable. And sure, you may respect us industrial types but the mass majority does not. We get suicide ganked; spit on; shat on; told our profession is a stupid choice because they can do the same with minerals from loot?
Fixed that for you
And obviously you are in a system that is full of gankers.
Simple solution... Move to an other spot. I have been mining 5 months without being ganked a single time. So can you. No excuses there, just change the location.
Oh and btw. You can get suicide ganked in the middle of an incursion and yes it happens  |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
126
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:And yes, I would love to mine less then a hulk but with the cargo capacity of an orca. It's less trips back and forth to a station.
Because it encourages people to play alone and/or AFK and/or use bots? And none of those options are particularly conducive to a MULTI-player game.
Belrend Coregaul wrote:As for your reference to 'mining corp' .. why should I be forced to? Even then, I can't just jump in a system and go "Miner lf orca support, fleet invite please." and expect to get one.
The problem is that whatever mechanic that assists a person to play solo can ALSO be used to great effect by multiple pilots who are cooperating with one other. No matter what you do, any mechanic you propose to assist the "solo player" will be used to great effect by people who work together (because they are, quite essentially, "multiple solo pilots" *gasp*) ... so the solo player will STILL be at a disadvantage.
The only way to get around this is to institute "instances" and "controls" to arbitrarily punish and reward players to play a certain way... but those are anathema to the "sandbox" style play of EVE and will be met with EXTREME resistance and prejudice.
And yes... miners generally are a "friendly-ish" bunch so they might fleet you up if you convo them and ask just for the bonuses (remember, the worst they can say to you is "No").
Belrend CoregaulI wrote: also can't keep a hulk for more then a week because every week some combat kiddie giggling his arse off gets his buddies and suicide ganks it.
Sooooo... take precautions? Mine in T1 ships (you mine less, but they you get most of their value back via insurance), overtank your ship (again, you mine less but you are less appealing a target compared to the guy next to you), watch D-scan, pay attention to your environment (you're in a goddamn asteroid belt... it's not hard to notice something "out of the ordinary"), mine in a location that sees little traffic/is hard to find (gravametric belts are good for this)... the list goes on.
Belrend CoregaulI wrote: So tell me... How would YOU fix the market? I personally would remove remote reppers so those shiny toys die once in awhile and the demand for minerals is increased. OR just put nullsec ores into highsec so solo miners have a remote chance to even compete.
Your idea for the removal of remote reppers appeals to me on a level I cannot quite articulate. However the rational part of my brain says that it would not be a good idea simply because it would limit tactical options to simply "who brings more ships" (yes, "blobs" CAN be defeated. It just requires some... finesse).
As far as null-sec 'riods being brought into high-sec... remember: the high value of null-sec ores/minerals comes from the fact that they are only found in the most high-risk (supposedly) areas of the game. Ergo, their availability is low... making them scarce... meaning there is only so much supply available... with means they command a higher price.
If you bring such asteroids into high-sec people will begin mining THOSE rocks in large quantities too... which means that there will be more supply... which means that the price of those ores/minerals goes down... which means you will earn less... and you will have to mine more to get more ISK... and others will do the same... bringing prices down even more.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:Your idea for the removal of remote reppers appeals to me on a level I cannot quite articulate. However the rational part of my brain says that it would not be a good idea simply because it would limit tactical options to simply "who brings more ships" (yes, "blobs" CAN be defeated. It just requires some... finesse).
As far as null-sec 'riods being brought into high-sec... remember: the high value of null-sec ores/minerals comes from the fact that they are only found in the most high-risk (supposedly) areas of the game. Ergo, their availability is low... making them scarce... meaning there is only so much supply available... with means they command a higher price.
If you bring such asteroids into high-sec people will begin mining THOSE rocks in large quantities too... which means that there will be more supply... which means that the price of those ores/minerals goes down... which means you will earn less... and you will have to mine more to get more ISK... and others will do the same... bringing prices down even more.
So why not remove remote reppers. Eve warfare is already boned with blob warfare.. Only this way, it will increase the amount of ships that get destroyed. If they bring more ships, it's more demand for minerals.
Quote:Because it encourages people to play alone and/or AFK and/or use bots? And none of those options are particularly conducive to a MULTI-player game.
So turn mining into some kind of minigame. If the issue is that AFK'rs and ROBOTs benefit as well; make something in mining with a random variable so that a bot cannot keep up and an AFKr has to be active.
I believe there are quite a few topics about minigame ideas as well. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
126
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 08:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Quote:Your idea for the removal of remote reppers appeals to me on a level I cannot quite articulate. However the rational part of my brain says that it would not be a good idea simply because it would limit tactical options to simply "who brings more ships" (yes, "blobs" CAN be defeated. It just requires some... finesse).
As far as null-sec 'riods being brought into high-sec... remember: the high value of null-sec ores/minerals comes from the fact that they are only found in the most high-risk (supposedly) areas of the game. Ergo, their availability is low... making them scarce... meaning there is only so much supply available... with means they command a higher price.
If you bring such asteroids into high-sec people will begin mining THOSE rocks in large quantities too... which means that there will be more supply... which means that the price of those ores/minerals goes down... which means you will earn less... and you will have to mine more to get more ISK... and others will do the same... bringing prices down even more. So why not remove remote reppers. Eve warfare is already boned with blob warfare.. Only this way, it will increase the amount of ships that get destroyed. If they bring more ships, it's more demand for minerals.
D-d-did you really just skip the first little paragraph that I made?
Yeah... it'd certainly cause more ships to be destroyed (temporarily at least)... but it'd also take away some tactical flexibility for smaller gangs/fleets who want to sink their teeth into larger groups (interesting fact: a small gang of armor-fit HACs with armor-logi support can take on a battleship gang TWICE its size).
edit:
Belrend Coregaul wrote:So turn mining into some kind of minigame. If the issue is that AFK'rs and ROBOTs benefit as well; make something in mining with a random variable so that a bot cannot keep up and an AFKr has to be active.
I believe there are quite a few topics about minigame ideas as well.
This idea does come up from time to time. And interestingly it usually gets shot down by OTHER MINERS who don't want to be bothered with "such crap."
edit2: also... how does this idea relate to the concept that EVE is multi-player game?
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 09:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Are you denying that mining needs a huge makeover and made more profitable because they put the same amount of time and more work then combat pilots(if they invest into marketting)?
Sorry missed that part.
No i am not denying it needs a make over, in fact it's in second in my changes wishlist (The first being to fixe the Hybrid guns)
What i am denying however, is the idea that one should mine just for the matter of making isks.
Believe it or not, i enjoy mining for what it is. An other way to play the game. I have 2 accounts (sadly it's the only option when you want an alt. That or buying a toon) one is an industrial that can mine, haule, and trade, the other being a combat pilot.
Trading with one character and doing incursions with the other combines very well. I spare a few hundred million isk to buy goods that fall in price and keep those in my hangar bay. A few weeks later, the prices doubled. I sold them for a hudge profit. Took a few weeks to get the money, but it took 30 minutes of my spare time to make the all thing.
As far as trading goes, EvE is the most advanced and realistic MMo.
I also use my miner to manufacture amo, and modules (and sometime ships) for the benefit of my corp. Is it bringing me isks ? No not much. Is it giving satifaction to know that i am contributing to my corps wealth and power? That those modules will help a poor m8 that just lost his ship? Yes, definitly.
Ony thing that sucks about it (Thank you CCP for mikling our money), is the fact that i have to pay an other account to train those two guys at the same time. Other than that, switching from my combat pilot to my industrial to make some trading and manufacturing is a very welcome change a game style. Mining operations can actually be alot of fun.
But obviously, not everyone enjoys doing that. |
Anshio Tamark
Avitus Lugus
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 10:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Despite what many of those high-sec griefers and low-sec pirates may say, Miners are actually the back-bone of the economy. They're the ones spending hours just grinding rocks so others may blow up ships and POSes, and yet, at the same time, pirates are the ones who make sure there's a constant need for minerals all over New Eden. Without one, the other simply can't exist, and if you don't like combat, you might as well mine or produce stuff. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
219
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 10:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:So why not remove remote reppers. Eve warfare is already boned with blob warfare.. Only this way, it will increase the amount of ships that get destroyed. If they bring more ships, it's more demand for minerals.
Yes, remove a fundamental PVP and PVE combat mechanic because YOU think it will result in more ship loss. Which, by the way, it won't.
The rocks are free. The minerals are free. Both regenerate at downtime.
The only value assigned to them is market supply and demand. If you stick ABC ores in highsec, supply will skyrocket and it will be equally worthless.
If you're not trolling, you are fundamentally stupid.
If you were to start suicide ganking Hulks, your ISK/hr from mining would actually increase.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 11:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
You see things in a way you want to or someone wants you believe to.
That incursion guys that brag about how much they make take that one hour they used to shoot stuff and say they made a billion. I bet they don't include the time they needed to find a fleet, travel to the incursion system or sell their rewards.
If you don't belong to some elitist incursion runner club you'll likely spend days for getting invited to some incursion fleet that gets you some rewards at all. Also if the fleet isn't competent enough you might lose your equipment pretty fast.
Now let me tell you a story about a miner. It may as well not reflect the average miner, but it will show you what a point of view is. On top of it it's not even made up.
I own a carrier built by some mainly industrial guy. He entirely mined the minerals for it at some asteroid belts in a null sec system. Mine is one of a couple he built.
I don't remember him losing a hulk in the process. For sure not to NPC.
Instead of fearing to lose his ship to NPC he used to kill them with his drones. One day he was asking around what this blueprint he just looted was worth. It turned out it was a Nightmare BPC worth 900 million isk at the time.
Now continue to train to incursions, get frustrated about it and leave EVE totally missing the point of it - the fun of doing what you enjoy and not what others tell you to do. |
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Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
12
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jose Black wrote:
That incursion guys that brag about how much they make take that one hour they used to shoot stuff and say they made a billion. I bet they don't include the time they needed to find a fleet, travel to the incursion system or sell their rewards.
If you don't belong to some elitist incursion runner club you'll likely spend days for getting invited to some incursion fleet that gets you some rewards at all. Also if the fleet isn't competent enough you might lose your equipment pretty fast.
.
This.
An incursion is not a level 4 mission.
Unless you find a good corp that knows how do handle them well, you will most likely find yourself in a pod or you won't have much ISK after an hour+ of incursion because you aren't dealing enough dps (As a fleet i mean).
The higher the risks and difficulty the greater the reward. Thus incursion grant you great rewards, but believe me when i say that the path to run them well is hard and long.
Mining is the safest and easiest way to make isks , you are sure to get what you are spending your time for. Easier, thus many choose to mine and the supply beats the demand, incomes are driven by the market. You still make isks out of it and you can live just by mining, even if you don't get that much.
Loosing a ship to a suicide gank can be avoided provided you find a safe location (Use your starmap and check recent kills in the highsec system), check local and use your directional scanner. When you go to a belt, move away from the warp to 0 location and get to at least 150 km of it, bookmark the spot, and next time you come mining warp to it and stay there. if a suicide gank wraps in, he will be too far away to even lock you, giving plenty of time to warp out (You should always have your ship aligned/stop to a safe location when you mine)
When a suicide gank arrive, he will need to get at 13Km from you to scramble your ship. If at 0 km warp he finds himself 100 Kms from you, you can even taunt him while you are calmly warpping out of danger.
Suicide gank victims (for miners anyway) are usually unexperienced players and 8/10 of the time, a bot.
As for rats, get some tanking on your ship and take combat drones with you (There is enough space in your drone bay to have both mining and combat drones). If rats pop-up, take out your drones and let them clean the mess while you keep mining. Problem solved. |
darmwand
Repo.
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 12:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aston Bradley wrote:if a suicide gank wraps in, he will be too far away to even lock you
Unless of course he has a cloaked friend sitting right next to you. Better be a little paranoid.
darmwand
Repossession Agent
http://www.repo-corp.net/
Recruitment is OPEN |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
752
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 14:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Malcanis wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:
So I'm here posting in several threads about the pisspoor management of the Economy and Mining in general...
Mining is in the state that it's in largely because of changes to the game loudly demanded by miners. When you have a low-skill, low risk, low investment, low attention activity that harvests an extremely abundant resource to sell in a competitive economy, then how much money do you think you're going to make at it? If you want to make mining lucrative, then you need to ask CCP to make it difficult, dangerous and for there to be far less asteroids available. Another problem: It -is- dangerous because combat kiddies make it so. Have you not seen "Hulkageddon" and "Ice mining embargo by Goonswarm" and every year, according to the history of EVE, is a new threat to miners. You wanted it to be dangerous? It's already there. We do just as much right-click targetting as combat pilots. Our profession, if anything, is among the MOST dangerous of professions.
It's clearly not dangerous enough to make prices rise significantly. The only way to make "real" money mining is to heavily multibox, so that you're running 4-6 Hulks, plus an Orca, at once. In Nullsec you too make make 100 mill an hour this way. The re
I'm sorry you don't like facts, but not liking them won't change them. If you don't like the results of what you're doing, looking at changing the way you do it might well turn out to be more productive than complaining. Just a thought.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 10:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
OP please don't hate on us logistics pilots :(
We're a profession too.
The reasons for mining lacking profitability have been outlined here. If mining was more risky you'd make more money (like 0.0 miners do)
Hulkageddon is doing you a favour. Last hulkageddon actually made more isk for the smart miners. (hint, stop mining in a system with high numbers of gankers)
I personally think that missions shouldn't give isk, just lp, make the lp store items cheaper so more people are using faction crap.
Mining with other people is a lot of fun, even though i'm a combat pilot i do own a retriever for when new people join the game and wanna mine. People trying to get an MMO balanced around soloers is a bit silly :P |
Toshiro GreyHawk
18
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Posted - 2011.10.26 14:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ha! Ha! Ha!
I have so got to book mark this thread and point to it next time I'm in an argument with Mission Runners about how lame mining is. I've never seen so many people defending my preferred profession.
Now ... for those who haven't figured it out - the OP is clearly a troll. For those who don't know how a troll operates - read this thread. For those who don't actually know what a troll is - a troll is someone who posts an incendiary thread for the purpose of getting others to respond. The troll doesn't actually believe what he is posting - he is posting merely to get other people to waste their time responding. The troll is spending his time keeping the thread going - but - he is having fun giggling at all the people wasting their time because of HIS thread. Thus trolls are pitiful losers who actually don't have anything better to do than waste someone else's time - which makes being a troll it's own punishment ...
The problem with combating trolls is that you really can't prove that they are trolls - but then again - they can't prove that they aren't. Their biggest edge - and the reason people who know they are trolls will post in a troll thread - is that new people who don't know any better might believe the troll if someone doesn't set them straight.
So ... for any new players still reading this thread - so they don't get confused by the OP's apparent lack of understanding of the game ... I'll reinforce some points which for the most part have already been made ... just in case anyone needs these points to be reinforced ...
1) What you get for mining is controlled by the player centric economy of EVE. As said - things are only really valuable if they are scarce. Make them easy to obtain - and their value will plunge. There is no way to "fix" this. The players control it - not CCP. The players control it as a mass - based on their spending patterns - not any intent or scheme. So - there is no mechanic that could be applied to change it. Things cost what they cost because of the way some players in this game spend their money and others provide goods for money to be spent on.
2) An Orca - is a support ship. Not a miner. Using an Orca to mine - is a complete mis-use of the ship. Don't spend 400 million ISK to do that. If you only have one account - use a Hulk (or a Covetor until you can afford a Hulk). For new people - what you want to do when thinking about the purpose of a ship - is look at the things it gets a bonus for.. Now - compare an Orca to a Hulk. Note the role bonus for the Hulk. See how the Orca does not have the same thing? T2 Crystal fit Strip Miners are going to totally out produce any thing you could put on an Orca. You could probably mine more in an Osprey than an Orca.
3) As pointed out - Belt Rats are an additional source of income to a miner - not a threat - as long as you pay attention to what you're doing. If you don't want to pay attention - you can mine in 1.0 or .9 space where there are no rats. Also - note above that increase in resistances for the Hulk - and the vastly superior inherent tank it has compared to a Covetor. THAT is the primary reason for getting a Hulk instead of a Covetor. The Covetor can use all the same miners as the Hulk and costs vastly less - it just has a smaller hold and much ... much weaker tank.
4) If you're worried about being ganked ... mine in Mission Space in a quiet system and your chances of being ganked are very ... very slim. That does not mean that some one couldn't scan you down - they could - it means that if there are no Level IV Mission Agents in the system - the chances of anyone coming along to scan it with combat probes are ... very, very slim. The people who do use combat scanner probes to scan down ships - are Ninja Salvagers looking to salvage the wrecks left by Level IV mission runners. No Level IV Mission Runners - probably no Ninja's. I have been mining Mission Space for over 4 years - and NEVER had another player intrude on my mining. The chief disadvantage of mining Mission Space - is that you're limited to the ore you're likely to find - but there is a reason Chribba favors Veldspar. You can produce the most ore in the least amount of time - because ore is sold by the unit - but mined by the Meter Cubed - and Veldspar has the best ratio.
5) The chief reason I prefer mining to Mission Running - is that ... I prefer to decide what I want to do - instead of having to jump through some NPC's hoops. Mission Running is what most people do - in most MMO's - it's just called "Quests" else where. I - personally - can't think of anything more boring - that running the same missions - over and over and over again. But that's just me - if someone else finds running "Quests" (I use that word to make a point) - then do that. Now, I do run missions for standings ... but I don't like doing it ...
6) As to where the minerals come from ... a very large percentage of the minerals in this game do come from Mission Runners melting down their cheap loot - because there are many more runners than miners.
To the OP ... on the slim possibility that you are actually not a troll - you've no idea what you are talking about. The other posters in this thread - do. Pay attention and learn - or shut up and go run missions if you want more money. If you were actually a veteran of a bunch of other MMO's - you should know that insisting that something be changed - just because you don't like it - is a complete waste of time. If lots and lots of other players were whining about something - that would work - but if you don't already see lots and lots of such posts you're just being silly to continue.
. |
Zeek Tarlox
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 16:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:The problem is that my way of having fun is inferior in all aspects despite being equal in training time, right-click targetting amount; and even then we happen to do MORE WORK then these "ceo" who sit on their big pile of dam near free money by going into manufactoring and trading.
Why is my 'fun' that is also 'work that i enjoy' so far inferior to lazy people with shiny toys THAT I MADE.
1) Stop playing EVE
2) Cancel Subscription
3) Uninstall EVE
4) Come back a few weeks later when you realize crafters in every MMO are in the same boat.
You realize you are crying over making money in a video game right?
Stop crying or I'll have to bring over a bucket to collect your tears. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
138
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 17:04:00 -
[47] - Quote
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:Now ... for those who haven't figured it out - the OP is clearly a troll.
After my last post in this thread, I was beginning to suspect the same thing. But then I saw this little gem over the F&I section.
I think we are dealing with a bona fide ignoramus with "entitlement issues" here.
edit: my link-fu fails. 
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Velicitia
Open Designs
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:Now ... for those who haven't figured it out - the OP is clearly a troll. After my last post in this thread, I was beginning to suspect the same thing. But then I saw this little gem over the F&I section. I think we are dealing with a bona fide ignoramus with "entitlement issues" here. edit: my link-fu fails.
while he is/was trolling ... there was a bit of constructive dialogue going on in that thread ... maybe. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 19:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
139
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 23:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:Of course ... this is just the type of person a troll is pretending to be ...
or IS he??????? 
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
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Elarath
Mobile Defloration Service
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 08:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Haven't you thougt about combining some interesting professions?
What i want to say is, why you don't enjoy flying around in your hulk and mine some rocks apart while on the other hand (or in case the other monitor) you can watch your planet side extraction facillity doin' theire work?
If you think mining needs an upgrade (and it NEEDS an update...) why do you don't spend just a little skill time on Planetary Interaction - while ccp hopefully works on that new -blingbling- mining upgrade.
Actually there are just 5 Skillz to learn, that's in case 4.352.000 SP and you have ALL skillz on lvl5.
With this low effort you could maximize your income in a way that supplemented mining in an new industrial-profession way.
Iv'e done exactly the same with my Mining/Industrial Account and it works pretty damn well.
You say that you don't have the chance (by only mining) to recieve your goal to build ships for the PvP/PvIncursion People - why than don't spread your offers over a larger market?
For example you could establish a 'robotics' production chain - planet side and harvest the ISK you recieve from it WHILE goin' on stare at walls of rock for prolonged periods of time :) (some ppl call it mining)
Doing so you have two steady incomes with not much more skilling time needed. |
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 10:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Feel like a 'tard for posting in an obvious troll post, but I'm bored.
The most fun I've had in EVE, as well as the most ISK I've ever made, were in three separate areas of the game. They are as follows:
1) I got a RL buddy of mine to start playing the game, and we ran missions together. He trained for a Drake, and tanked our missions while I DPSed them in a Thorax. We could rip through level 4s in no time flat, and the money was pretty darn good for a couple of relative newbies.
2) I joined a Wormhole corp and moved to their POS. We would run the combat sites solo or duo, but when they were all gone we'd team up and hit the Grav sites in Hulks w/ Industrials hauling for us. We made about the same cash from the mining as we did from the combat sites, but it was way more fun.
3) I trained up my Logi skills and tried my hand at Incursions. I got lucky and bumped into some people that knew what they were doing, so the cash was really good. These groups are typically 3 Logis and 7-8 Faction BSes or T3s. We go where the Incursions are even if it's 25 jumps away, if we don't have enough DPS or Logi online at once then we get to ship-spin for hours, and if we're competing with another fleet for top DPS and we lose...we get Zero payout. But when it works it's a blast.
Common thread = Other people.
If you want to make money solo, maybe you should station trade or something. I can tell you that almost anything that makes cash solo will be either hard, boring, or short-lived. On the other hand, everything in this game is more fun and more rewarding if you find people you can trust and help them. |
People's Republic ofChina
My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom
4
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Posted - 2011.10.27 10:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Emiko Luan wrote:
The reasons for mining lacking profitability have been outlined here. If mining was more risky you'd make more money (like 0.0 miners do)
The only disconnect in this logic here is that mining is more risky than L4 mission running. Are either of them particularly risky? No, but I certainly feel more threatened kicking around in an exhumer in a belt rather than pew pewing stupid NPCs who fly at me in a straight line. Maybe that's just because I suicide gank miners, so when I'm mining I fear it will come back to bite me in the ass.
C'est la vie.
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gfldex
12
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Posted - 2011.10.27 14:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:So why not remove remote reppers. Eve warfare is already boned with blob warfare.. Only this way, it will increase the amount of ships that get destroyed. If they bring more ships, it's more demand for minerals.
You are either a formidable troll or you never run any incursions. You need 3 logistics with 4 large RR each per 10 players. If you don't have them you lose 1 ship every 30 sec to incursion sanshas.
Every time a logistic CTDs you have a good chance to lose a ship.
To come back to your main complain that mining isn't profitable. The reason is that you are doing it wrong. Since we have the ability to let other players pay for your subscription in a secure manner you are competing with players that run 6 accounts at the same time. If you don't do the same you wont make good money with mining. The only way CCP could fix that is to limit the number of mining ships per IP. Since there are players that share IPs due to sexual relationships this wont happen.
Your next mistake is to assume that miners are industrialists. They are not. Miners are farmers. The money is made by the food industry, the ppl that build farming equipment and make fertiliser and poisons. When I do a complete production run I build 300 BC in one go. I wasn't in a belt for 2 years. If I would spend the same amount of time in front of the screen I need for indutryin Incursions I would make less ISK.
To repeat the point you are missing: You are not an industrialist, you are a farmer. And in doubt the farmer is the idiot.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
21
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Posted - 2011.10.28 16:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
For any new people needing clarification ...
Technically ... the 3 original Career Paths being Business, Military and Industry ... both Mining & Manufacturing fell under the heading of Industry ... but ... *shrug* ... the distinctions and the points they make above are valid. When you hear an EVE veteran say they are an Industrialist - they mostly mean they are a Manufacturer - whereas if someone says they're a Miner - they mean they are a Miner.
You'll also sometimes hear Business guys make a distinction between Trading and Hauling. What they mean here is that if all they do is trade - they are a Trader - but if they haul goods to market and then sell them - they are a Hauler. This distinction is much less often made than that between "industrialist" and Miner. Here - when someone just says hauling - they are mostly referring to people who Haul as a career choice - or - are hauling for a miner, the distinction here being that the former is Hauling goods to the trade hub to sell, while the later is hauling ore to the station then going back for more.
The other thing is that most of your "Industrialists" are really Traders as well. It is Trading that turns things from goods into ISK.
The Production Process is:
Mine > Refine > Produce > Transport > Trade*
*Trade being the only one that isn't optional.
To switch analogies - during the various Gold Rushes - the people who made all the money - were the Traders who sold goods to the miners.
Of course - Trading is where the real money is.
Thus - while the Military Career, which covers PVE & PVP is largely self sufficient (people run Missions to fund PVP) and Traders can be - Industry is very much coupled to Business. Whether you're a Miner or a Manufacturer ... you have to sell your stuff to somebody to get money for it - the game won't just give it to you the way it does with Mission Runners.
If you think about it - someone who owns a Automobile Factory IRL - is both a Business Man and an Industrialist.
One of the Terms you'll hear bandied about a lot in discussions about Industry/Business - is Opportunity Cost. This is the cost you pay for having done what you did - instead of doing something else.
For Veteran players who have established themselves as Manufacturers and Traders - they don't usually mine anything - because mining is a labor intensive activity that takes up playing time they could be devoting to running their business. They are making enough money off of their Manufacturing Business - that they can afford to just buy the minerals they need - instead of producing them themselves.
For newer players ... if they are interested in manufacturing - they may not have the option of just buying their minerals and hence mine their own, as they have more time than they do money.
For those who do make a lot of money off of mining ... they are mostly doing it with multiple accounts. Mining and Manufacturing both benefit strongly from having multiple accounts. The more ships you have - the more ore you can pull in - and the more Engineers you've got - the more jobs you can have running simultaneously or the more Planets you can have PI Facilities on.
There are people who use multiple accounts for PVE & PVP - but not the way Miners and Manufacturers do. In each case - even if you own the equipment to have a number of EVE Clients running at the same time - you as a player will more rapidly reach the point of diminishing returns trying to control multiple combat ships - than mining ships or Engineers.
*shrug*
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