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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.08 06:17:00 -
[31]
"With level 5, at least you might use them as 'command ships' and not as another better,stronger hac."
Field command ships are "better, stronger HAC", their gang-related abilities are nearly non-existent. So i don't have problem with them being used as assault ships they actually are. Fleet command ships are geared more for gang support, and given they're generally missing one damage-related bonus in favour of support related bonus, i'd guess they'll be left for the leadership people to play with...
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.08 06:50:00 -
[32]
ôField command ships are "better, stronger HAC", their gang-related abilities are nearly non-existent.ö Once you add on the ships bonusÆs, player skills and mindlinks the gang bonus is very large. A lot of people are overlooking just how powerful gang assist is. It great now without mindlink and these ships. Now with these ships and mindlink a small gang with gang assist has a massive advantage.
Being a gang assit pilot and seeing the effect the modules have in combat I have I say they should put the skill back to leve 5 at least for the non Hac command ship. The HAC command ship is ok at level 4.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: j0sephine "With level 5, at least you might use them as 'command ships' and not as another better,stronger hac."
Field command ships are "better, stronger HAC", their gang-related abilities are nearly non-existent. So i don't have problem with them being used as assault ships they actually are. Fleet command ships are geared more for gang support, and given they're generally missing one damage-related bonus in favour of support related bonus, i'd guess they'll be left for the leadership people to play with...
Yes, but making people train squadron command 5 would make more sense and use the ship at their full potential , let's be serious here, who will train it to 5 now?
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:29:00 -
[34]
Bah... Wrong move imo
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: j0sephine "With level 5, at least you might use them as 'command ships' and not as another better,stronger hac."
Field command ships are "better, stronger HAC", their gang-related abilities are nearly non-existent. So i don't have problem with them being used as assault ships they actually are. Fleet command ships are geared more for gang support, and given they're generally missing one damage-related bonus in favour of support related bonus, i'd guess they'll be left for the leadership people to play with...
Yes, but making people train squadron command 5 would make more sense and use the ship at their full potential , let's be serious here, who will train it to 5 now?
I will
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: j0sephine "With level 5, at least you might use them as 'command ships' and not as another better,stronger hac."
Field command ships are "better, stronger HAC", their gang-related abilities are nearly non-existent. So i don't have problem with them being used as assault ships they actually are. Fleet command ships are geared more for gang support, and given they're generally missing one damage-related bonus in favour of support related bonus, i'd guess they'll be left for the leadership people to play with...
Yes, but making people train squadron command 5 would make more sense and use the ship at their full potential , let's be serious here, who will train it to 5 now?
Anyone that wants to use a command proc?
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well, this will lower the price of HACs, but raise the price of BC 2s.
Dunno if I like that or not.
I dont like it
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 07:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: LWMaverick
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Well, this will lower the price of HACs, but raise the price of BC 2s.
Dunno if I like that or not.
I dont like it
Yeah, but on the plus side, I may finally be able to justify buying a Vagabond... =/
But the Sleipner was really looking nice.
~Sobe
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi CCP will nerf this probably, but hey, worth a try
so your saying I should of kept my mouth shut?
Yup.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.08 08:26:00 -
[39]
There is another way to look at it. You need 1,264,470 million less leadership skill points to fly the T2 leadership ship with 2 gang assist modules over flying and fitting the T1 ship with 2 working gang assist modules. That just seems wrong to me the T2 ship should need the same or more leadership skill points. I donÆt recall any other T2 ship needing less skill points then the T1 version for its main job.
Take a T2 Logistics support ship you need more Logistics skill points to fly it and fit it then a T1 Logistics class ship. IsnÆt that the same for all T2 ships? You look at the T1 role boost the skill points and get T2.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.12.08 08:33:00 -
[40]
I think what happened is CCP realised they were asking people to train 13 ranks of new lvl 5 skills over Heavy Assaults, (which only required 7 new ranks over Assaults), and felt that that was to steep a learning curve.
You see, if they keep that curve up, T2 battleships will need to require 30 ranks of new lvl 5 skills, and T2 deadnaughts will require on the order fo 60 ranks of new lvl 5 skills.
Then if they ever wanted to go on to Tech 3 ships, they'd have to either go on to 100-200 ranks of lvl 5 skills, and make the ships uber enough to demand such skills, or scrap the entire skill/strength system entirely.
I think they decided it was easier just to let CS be common, than it was to deal with a horrible tangled mess a couple years down the road.
Don't forget, Command ships will only be Uber Leet until Tech II battleships start comming in, then they'll just be gang bonus ships. Shoot, Carriers may severely limit them now, what with Fighters having battlecruiser hitpoints, destroyer sig radii, and cruiser sig resolution.
Harry Voyager ____________________ I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums. |
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Esotera
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Posted - 2005.12.08 08:41:00 -
[41]
You will setill need V if you want to run more than one gang module at once as you need a command processor for this that requires Wing commander which in turn needs Squadron Commander V....
So unless you want to have a T2 gang boosting command ship that is no better than a T1 at the job... Best you learn squadron command 5
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Esotera
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Posted - 2005.12.08 08:41:00 -
[42]
You will setill need V if you want to run more than one gang module at once as you need a command processor for this that requires Wing commander which in turn needs Squadron Commander V....
So unless you want to have a T2 gang boosting command ship that is no better than a T1 at the job... Best you learn squadron command 5
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Esotera You will setill need V if you want to run more than one gang module at once as you need a command processor for this that requires Wing commander which in turn needs Squadron Commander V....
So unless you want to have a T2 gang boosting command ship that is no better than a T1 at the job... Best you learn squadron command 5
fleet command can run 3 without command processors... field command is just a better HAC, slower HAC from the looks of things. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:40:00 -
[44]
Whats wrong with them being better than HACs? Theyre the next ship class 'up'. Theyre bound to tank better and do more damage.
Thats like complaining about Battleships because theyre better than Cruisers.
They're bigger. They're tougher and stronger. They're going to cost more money. And CCP is going through (slightly) with its promise to lower the amount of level 5 reqs on various skills and ships, so that newer players can have a chance at ever getting into some of the ships that are being released.
Good change imo.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 09:44:00 -
[45]
Bad change, soon everyone will be running around in these, instead of just the people who chose to specialize. Bah.
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Brute Helmet
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:25:00 -
[46]
Well, it will be a bigger stronger version of HAC:s to be sure, but also a much slower and clumsier one. Part of the HAC allure is BS-like damage, toughness of a battlecruiser and speed of a normal cruiser.
T2 BC will just be a step upwards, BS-like damage, Toughness of a BS almost, speed of a well, Battlecruiser.
The cost will also be a prohibiting factor, Id imagine these will go for 200M+ since they build at half the speed of HACs and will be quite desirable.
The Recon ships are the main competition for HAC. Will be tough for the close range HAC though, Vagabond, Deimos¦, Ishtar and Sacrilege pilots will have a harder time of it, Muninn, Cerberus, Zealot, Eagle will benefit greatly as they can keep at range and pound away outside nos/webber/scrambler range of the recon ships....
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Bad change, soon everyone will be running around in these, instead of just the people who chose to specialize. Bah.
You mean how everyone runs around in HACs? Please. HACs are still extremely rare, especially in PVP, due to their lack of availability on the open market and the price. The Tech 2 BC will be an extension of that, probably costing around 200/250mil and being even harder to get hold of.
I like the change and will be training for them now
My Latest Vid (16/11/05) |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Eyeshadow
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Bad change, soon everyone will be running around in these, instead of just the people who chose to specialize. Bah.
You mean how everyone runs around in HACs? Please. HACs are still extremely rare, especially in PVP, due to their lack of availability on the open market and the price. The Tech 2 BC will be an extension of that, probably costing around 200/250mil and being even harder to get hold of.
Well, yes, that's a valid point. I *do* see everyone running around in HACs in pve, but it's true that it's rarer in pvp. With insane prices and/or insane wait times, you don't often want to risk your HAC even though it would be a good ship for the job.
We'll see how it plays out. If we get a HAC-like situation of crazy wait times and even crazier prices, I guess it doesn't matter what the skill reqs are.
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Bad change, soon everyone will be running around in these, instead of just the people who chose to specialize. Bah.
No they won't.
Think about it for a second.
These ships will almost certainly have a longer build time than heavy assault ships.
And that will make them rare.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:52:00 -
[50]
And I thought I had finally found something worthwhile to train for with my charisma.
This is going to hugely increase the number of people training for them as the only actual specialization needed for HAC pilots is BC V. I would've liked for them to be a more specialized ship class.
There. Now I'm unhappy and have to go gank some noobs.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.12.08 10:56:00 -
[51]
I want a minmatar fleet one for my alt, but think I'll stick to my deimos. Too bad the gallente recon ships use missiles, 9mil gunnery, 4.5mil drones, 9k missiles. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.12.08 11:10:00 -
[52]
ôYou will setill need V if you want to run more than one gang module at once as you need a command processor for this that requires Wing commander which in turn needs Squadron Commander V.... So unless you want to have a T2 gang boosting command ship that is no better than a T1 at the job... Best you learn squadron command 5ô
Actually the none HAC ships have command processor built into them so you donÆt need to use command processors. Which in turn means you donÆt need Squadron Command 5. So not only are you better then the T1 ship you need less leadership skills then the T1 ship to do the same job. Surly the T2 ship should need more skill?
Wing Command is not used yes by either the T1 or T2 ship yet and you cannot train for Wing Command yet.
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.12.08 11:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gariuys I want a minmatar fleet one for my alt, but think I'll stick to my deimos. Too bad the gallente recon ships use missiles, 9mil gunnery, 4.5mil drones, 9k missiles.
Yeah i wasnt too chuffed about that 1 either
My Latest Vid (16/11/05) |
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