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Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 14:27:00 -
[1]
I found myself a little disapointed when I saw that my only choice for an Amarr interdictor wouldn't let me focus on lasers and couldn't help but notice that the Gallente are in a similar position of requiring them to fit a half guns half missiles setup without the option for them to focus more heavily on each of their racial weapons. It seems unfair that the Caldari and Minmatar each get interdictors that allow them to make excellent use of their racial weapons, so why not the Amarr and Gallente?
I have seen some state that the reason for this is to reduce the amount of damage an interdictor could do. This really doesn't make sense since the Sabre can fit seven guns and the Flycatcher can mount six launchers.
Others have posted that it adds more versatility. In a way it does, but it also takes away the option for pilots to fly a laserboat or blasterboat interdictor if they wished since there aren't enough gun slots.
So while the Caldari and Minmatar get to outfit their own interdictors heavily with their racial weapon types, the Amarr and Gallente are left with fewer slots for their own guns and more slots for missiles even though the Flycatcher has already filled the missile boat role.
Projectile boat? Check.
Missile boat? Check.
Laser and blaster boats? Not so much.
I wanted to know how others felt about the layout of these two ships. How do other Amarr and Gallente pilots feel about this? Satisfied? Disapointed? Don't care?
Alexander Anderson
P.S. I know that tackling is these ships main purpose and damage is secondary, so they need at least one launcher for the interdictor sphere launcher, this I don't dispute. I simply feel the since the Caldari and Minmatar can mount their racial weapons heavily on these ships why shouldn't the Amarr and Gallente have the same option to do so as well?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.08 14:35:00 -
[2]
It's a slap in the face for the Amarr and Gallente people, and also one more proof that the devs can't really grasp the concept of how utterly bad mixed hardpoint ships are!
Here's for the devs: Ships with an even distribution of turret versus missile hardpoints suck donkey balls. That's blunt, but it works across the board in all ship categoried. (Even also implies that number of total hardpoints is roughly the same as number of high slots)
As proof, I present:
Ares
Raptor
Lachesis
Typhoon
Sacrilege
None of the above are widely used nor famed for their ability. They are all famed for their inability and waste of money/time. And yes, the Lachesis is preemptive whine.
Could we get a character counter for the signature field, like the one we have for regular posts? |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.08 14:51:00 -
[3]
we all heart eris
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.08 15:06:00 -
[4]
The problem doesnt like with the fact that ships have mixed hardpoints due to them needing more skill training, that's just something that can be overcome with time.
The problem lies with the fact that these ships are only getting a ship bonus to half of their weapons (or so), which makes their dps crappy.
A lot of the RMR ships get bonuses to both weapon types, rather than getting a double bonus to one type. Maybe this is the way of the future(tm)?
WTB sig, 10m ISK. Must not include lame images of ships. Must be comical. Must include Minmatar-whining related comment. Kthx. |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 15:08:00 -
[5]
I should hope not, split weapon ships suck balls.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.12.08 15:09:00 -
[6]
Im going to train galante frigate just to take Eris out for a spin, its pink too.. 
Ahem anyway i agree im a bit annoyed about the amarr interdictor using missiles so much, i wanted to escape missiles hence training Amarr instead of caldari.
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.12.08 15:15:00 -
[7]
Damage destroyers = T1
Tackling destroyers = T2
The only problem I see with the Eris is the 2 med slots. 4 low slots makes it up well enough though. I love the Ares, and Im sure I'll love the Eris. The Enyo however...
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Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:21:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: HippoKing
we all heart eris
Hehe, I have no problem with Eris. Just thought that some pilots might like equip her more like a Gallente ship rather than being stuck with mixed weapon types as her only option.
Alexander Anderson
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Damage destroyers = T1
Tackling destroyers = T2
The only problem I see with the Eris is the 2 med slots. 4 low slots makes it up well enough though. I love the Ares, and Im sure I'll love the Eris. The Enyo however...
Eh. Sabre with 6 280s and dmg mod and no rof malus aint damage? It puts the burst damage of the wolf to shame...
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:32:00 -
[10]
Boo-hoo?
Matari and Caldari pilots have been facing the split weapon predicament since the wormhole opened.
I think the devs are trying to even the playing field now by causing more pain to Gallente/Amarr as opposed to alleviating the pain from Matari and Caldari.
Tylenol, anyone?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Adrian Steel
Boo-hoo?
Matari and Caldari pilots have been facing the split weapon predicament since the wormhole opened.
I think the devs are trying to even the playing field now by causing more pain to Gallente/Amarr as opposed to alleviating the pain from Matari and Caldari.
Tylenol, anyone?
If someone shot your leg off, would it make you feel better to shoot someone else's leg off? Me, I'd rather have medical treatment...
Could we get a character counter for the signature field, like the one we have for regular posts? |
Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Adrian Steel on 08/12/2005 16:39:08
Edited by: Adrian Steel on 08/12/2005 16:38:44
Lol... I would too, but it doesnt seem to be happening :p I guess shooting someone else's leg off is the best compromise.
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Blackest Sheep
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:50:00 -
[13]
I am pretty disappointed, too. The idea sounds awesome but the mixed weapon layout is a big hindrance.
Can we please, pretty please get bonuses to one system only and the matching hardpoints? I would not even mind if the heretic had 6 launcher slots and the matching 3 bonuses for them. But giving it 2 bonuses to lasers (btw, falloff for lasers? hello? any dev actually using lasers?) and one for missile damage is simply a recipe for failure. It will be as much used as other great hybrid ships, like the typhoon.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:53:00 -
[14]
Heretic gets 10% laser cap use, 7.5% tracking, 5% light/rockt em damage and the interdiction sphere launcher bonus :S
Its possibly even worse than the falloff bonus.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: HippoKing
we all heart eris
yep... we all do
____________
The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Adrian Steel
Edited by: Adrian Steel on 08/12/2005 16:39:08
Edited by: Adrian Steel on 08/12/2005 16:38:44
Lol... I would too, but it doesnt seem to be happening :p I guess shooting someone else's leg off is the best compromise.
Well I certainly don't like the thought of introducing new gimped ships to makes up for others. I just find it sad that the interdictors are such cool ships but the Amarr and Gallente get the shaft when it comes to them. Well ok, I guess the Gallente have Eris at least . Though just think of Eris with a good layout!
Alexander Anderson
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 16:59:00 -
[17]
Yeah, the anathema and crusader and retribution and vengeance and sacrilege are *so overpowered* amarr definitely needed a gimpship >_>;;
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: keepiru
Yeah, the anathema and crusader and retribution and vengeance and sacrilege are *so overpowered* amarr definitely needed a gimpship >_>;;
Well, the Crusader is a good inty, fast and nice damage. But I agree with the rest of your list, they need some help. None of them are Ares-level useless, but could benefit from small tweaks.
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Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Blackest Sheep
I am pretty disappointed, too. The idea sounds awesome but the mixed weapon layout is a big hindrance.
Can we please, pretty please get bonuses to one system only and the matching hardpoints? I would not even mind if the heretic had 6 launcher slots and the matching 3 bonuses for them.
Yeah, but in that case why not just pilot a Flycatcher  ? At least with more gun hardpoints it can do something the others can't, be an effective laser platform along with it's interdiction ability.
We've already got a missile interdictor and a projectile interdictor, please TomB, give us a laser and blaster interdictor as well. 
Alexander Anderson
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Blackest Sheep
btw, falloff for lasers? hello? any dev actually using lasers?
Just noticed this.. wtf is that about? would be much better havving a +10% range bonus imho. 
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Virxe
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Adrian Steel
Boo-hoo?
Matari and Caldari pilots have been facing the split weapon predicament since the wormhole opened.
I think the devs are trying to even the playing field now by causing more pain to Gallente/Amarr as opposed to alleviating the pain from Matari and Caldari.
Tylenol, anyone?
100% correct-o. 
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Well, the Crusader is a good inty, fast and nice damage. But I agree with the rest of your list, they need some help. None of them are Ares-level useless, but could benefit from small tweaks.
No, the ares and raptor are the benchmark for doorstop-level useleness, though the vengeance comes pretty close imo.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: keepiru
Yeah, the anathema and crusader and retribution and vengeance and sacrilege are *so overpowered* amarr definitely needed a gimpship >_>;;
Well, the Crusader is a good inty, fast and nice damage. But I agree with the rest of your list, they need some help. None of them are Ares-level useless, but could benefit from small tweaks.
Inspired me to update my sig text...
Ar+es
n. Greek Mythology
- The god of war.
v. Eve online
- Expensive and useless |
Blackest Sheep
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: keepiru
Heretic gets 10% laser cap use, 7.5% tracking, 5% light/rockt em damage and the interdiction sphere launcher bonus :S
Its possibly even worse than the falloff bonus.
Oh, they changed it? Have not checked on SiSi.
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Blackest Sheep
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alexander Anderson
Yeah, but in that case why not just pilot a Flycatcher ? At least with more gun hardpoints it can do something the others can't, be an effective laser platform along with it's interdiction ability.
Yes, that would be optimal. But it is a Khanid abomination... pure missile slots are probably the only things we could get.
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Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:21:00 -
[26]
Or why not just bring back the the previously planned second interdictor per race? We seem to be getting two variants of the command ships, recon ships, carriers etc. This would really allow for more versatility to be added to the interdictor class.
So how about it? TomB? Tux? It is Christmas time  ...
Alexander Anderson
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:37:00 -
[27]
50% amarr pilots complain they are stuck using Em/thermal damage
50% amarr pilots complain they have ships that can vary damage type through missiles but not also own at lasers.
Which 50% should CCP make happy and which 50% should they **** off?
The answer tells you which 50% the person replying is in.
Same with every race. As was once wisely said. When everyone is *****ing equally we will know it's balanced.
Originally by: kieron
...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia. |
slip66
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
The problem lies with the fact that these ships are only getting a ship bonus to half of their weapons (or so), which makes their dps crappy.
A lot of the RMR ships get bonuses to both weapon types, rather than getting a double bonus to one type. Maybe this is the way of the future(tm)?
Agreed, if your gonna split them then then need to have bonuses for both and be on par with all gun or all missile ships.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.12.08 17:45:00 -
[29]
I plan to just fit nos on my heretic and eris. Guns and nos. I just hope they get their bonuses changed abit.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.12.08 20:31:00 -
[30]
Ithildin you know that you can count on me for support on mixed ships. They are just sad.
There is NO mixed ship with split weapons that has a bonus to only 1 weapon type that does not SUCK.
For the love of the Emperor please please PLEASE stop making these ships. ALL of them are terrible. They are so much worse than thier competition it's pathetic. Personally I would love to see them be improved so that there is more variety on the battlefield.
 The solution is really simple. Change the verbage in the description from "Laser Bonus - 10% cap use per level" to "Weapon Bonus - Lasers: 10% cap use per level, Missiles: 5% rof bonus per level". Or, hell why not, get REALLY crazy and give a ship like the Typhoon an optimal bonus and a huge fitting bonus to siege launchers. Just SOMETHING else to make them....useful.
Because right now it's not a question of "gee, what ship will best fit the role I want to fill in the group tonight". Instead it's "I will use the Sabre because all the other ones completely suck". In addition it's not fair that everyone laughs at someone in a Typhoon, a Sacriledge, or an Ares (and they do, but maybe not to your face).
No more gimptastically useless mixed ships. Fix the ones we already have.
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
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