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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.08 20:35:00 -
[31]
Edited by: keepiru on 08/12/2005 20:35:35
Atm the Heretic has:
Destroyer: 10% laser cap use, 7.5% laser tracking
Interdictor: 5% missile EM damage, 10% interdiction laucher RoF
Is that better than a falloff bonus on lasers? i dont think so, its just as gimptastic as every khanid ship bar the curse.
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.08 21:38:00 -
[32]
My opinion is still to just give the Amarr a Carthum designed ship. If the Amarr are going to be limited to only one choice of ship for this class let it be a true Amarr ship. If I wished to use missiles as my primary weapon I would've choosen Caldari ships.
Alexander Anderson
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.12.08 22:03:00 -
[33]
If it's possible, I think I'd put 3-4 bubble launchers. Just fly around the fleet for about 10 seconds dropping bubbles just before the AF/HAC's/tech 1 frigs/newb ships pop me. If you want solo PVP go for an assault, if you want to lock a fleet down for a few mins, go for an interdictor.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2005.12.08 22:37:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Nyxus
Ithildin you know that you can count on me for support on mixed ships. They are just sad.
There is NO mixed ship with split weapons that has a bonus to only 1 weapon type that does not SUCK.
For the love of the Emperor please please PLEASE stop making these ships. ALL of them are terrible. They are so much worse than thier competition it's pathetic. Personally I would love to see them be improved so that there is more variety on the battlefield.
 The solution is really simple. Change the verbage in the description from "Laser Bonus - 10% cap use per level" to "Weapon Bonus - Lasers: 10% cap use per level, Missiles: 5% rof bonus per level". Or, hell why not, get REALLY crazy and give a ship like the Typhoon an optimal bonus and a huge fitting bonus to siege launchers. Just SOMETHING else to make them....useful.
Because right now it's not a question of "gee, what ship will best fit the role I want to fill in the group tonight". Instead it's "I will use the Sabre because all the other ones completely suck". In addition it's not fair that everyone laughs at someone in a Typhoon, a Sacriledge, or an Ares (and they do, but maybe not to your face).
No more gimptastically useless mixed ships. Fix the ones we already have.
Nyxus
Oh dear, someone get him a Kleenex box!
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.12.08 23:14:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 08/12/2005 23:14:53
Originally by: Nyxus
For the love of the Emperor please please PLEASE stop making these ships.
I thought the Emperor was dead... I do agree though who wants laser/missile ships. lasers all the way...
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Alexander Anderson
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Posted - 2005.12.10 11:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Boonaki
If it's possible, I think I'd put 3-4 bubble launchers. Just fly around the fleet for about 10 seconds dropping bubbles just before the AF/HAC's/tech 1 frigs/newb ships pop me. If you want solo PVP go for an assault, if you want to lock a fleet down for a few mins, go for an interdictor.
Because the bubble is projected spherically from the point of origin, the Interdictor pilot will be effectively warp-jamming himself along with any other targets in the suppression area. To compensate, the turret RoF penalty is removed, and these ships will inflict considerable pain as a result.
That's CCP's description, so they are supposed to do damage at least moderately well as well as interdict. And right now the Heretic and Eris will be sub-par when compared to the Sabre and Flycatcher. I don't want a solo PvP ship, I just want to pilot a decent Amarr interdictor.
Alexander Anderson
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.12.10 12:01:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Helmut 314 on 10/12/2005 12:02:01
Actually the tracking bonus paired with Medium beam laser II and the EM damage bonus paired with a bunch of rocket launcher II could be pretty cool. Covers all ranges. Now if the ship just had the resources to fit that and a couple bubble launchers...
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Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.10 12:05:00 -
[38]
No its not, why would you use EM missiles in PVP when your guns already do loads of EM.
Youre going to use any damage type apart from EM. And possibly thermal.
Which means that CCP have designed yet another ship where every intelligent setup doesent use the bonii fully.
Well done guys, why didnt you just give it a shrunk-down typhoon hull?
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Nikita Fontaine
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Posted - 2005.12.10 15:24:00 -
[39]
Imagine...8 turrets with no rof handicap and damage bonuses for all high slot weapons I.E. IF they all had 8 turret hardpoints...the potential sheer damage output would be greater than cruisers and possibly even closing on HAC's... with mixed harpoints its a good way to define the dmg gap IMHO...
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Great minds think alike but fools seldom differ |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nikita Fontaine
Imagine...8 turrets with no rof handicap and damage bonuses for all high slot weapons I.E. IF they all had 8 turret hardpoints...the potential sheer damage output would be greater than cruisers and possibly even closing on HAC's... with mixed harpoints its a good way to define the dmg gap IMHO...
Isn't that exactly what the Sabre is?
The Thrasher is the ONLY T1 Dessie worth using right now because it can easily fit a full rack of T2 280's while no other dessie can do the same. If the Eris and Heretic come into RMR with thier current bonuses the T2 Dessies will be exactly the same as the T2 ones.
Mixed weapon systems are already at a disadvantage becuase they can't fit a damage mod to effect both weapons systems. Do we REALLY need to make them completely worthless in comparison to the homogenous Dessies by making thier damage output less than 1/2 becuase they lack weapons bonuses to 1/2 thier high slots?
How many more phoon, ares, hawk, raptors, vengeances, sacrileges, erises, and heretics do we need before CCP realize that mixed weapon ships need some adjustment to be on par with other ships of thier class?
If they all had mixed weapons it would be one thing. But as it stands the Sabre is the only one truly worth using. Maybe the Flycatcher. But even that is a maybe.
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
shakaZ XIV
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:38:00 -
[41]
Hmm, personally i don't think the idea of mixed hardpoint ships is wrong, it adds variety to the game.
(Although i can't honestly say i have flown the sacrilege/typhoon etc much, so far...  )
But CCP needs to be more realistic in their approach to them.
Gallente players have generally got good Hybrid skills.
Amarr -> good laser skills
Min -> good proj skills
Caldari -> good missile skills.
So, if (for example) an amarr ship gets a missile bonus, imo it should "compensate" for the fact that most Amarr specialized players have pretty crap missile skills. Same for Gallente players using half-missile-ships. So if you look at it that way, a bonus of 7,5% per level would be much better than a 5% bonus. Then, if someone DOES train up the other weapon type to a high level, the ship can really shine and do well.
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AlotofHaniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2005.12.10 16:46:00 -
[42]
THE WARP SCRAMBLING PROBE IT LAUNCHES NEEDS A LAUNCHER SLOT.
STOP WITH THESE STUPID THREADS.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2005.12.10 19:23:00 -
[43]
The only mixed weapon ships ive ever seen to be any good are the Phantasm and Nightmere, but even then u need Very good combination of high Gunnery and missile skills.
Also look at these ships Boni, then you will see where CCP are going wrong with the rest of eves mixed weapon ships.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.12.10 20:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: AlotofHaniblecter Teg
THE WARP SCRAMBLING PROBE IT LAUNCHES NEEDS A LAUNCHER SLOT.
STOP WITH THESE STUPID THREADS.
Which makes perfect sense on the Minmatar Interdictor - 7 turrets (with 3 bonuses) and one sphere launcher. Caldarian must sacrifice one of it's damage slots, but will still have 5 launchers with 3 boni each. The Gallentean and Amarrian isn't as fourtunate. Those two get 5 and 4 turrets respectively with 2 boni each and then the remaining 2 and 3 (Gall then Amarr) slots are filled with launchers with only one bonus.
So, in essence, if we sum up the ideal fitting take each slot, multiply it by the number of boni it gets, add each product to sum up all slots we have, and divide by number of total weapons we get the actual avarage boni of each ship.
0.0 Sphere launcher (-1 launcher):
A: 1.57
c: 2.14
G: 1.71
M: 3
Empire combat ship:
A: 1.5
C: 2.25
G: 1.625
M: 2.625
This is not with weighed boni, nor taking other ship stats into account, however as far as simple comparisons go, this one is fairly illustrative. The Minmatar ship has an avarage of nearly twice as many combat boni as the Amarrian one does.
Ar+es
n. Greek Mythology
- The god of war.
v. Eve online
- Expensive and useless |
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