... consider lifting all perminent bans that have been issued by CCP towards CCP's Eve Players...

...let us consider the number of pilots that are literate to the point of comprehending an E.U.L.A....

You mean the people who got a warning for botting, and who then continued to do so, so got banned?

Or those who did direct client modification? Sure, /some/ of them might not have realised. But still, it's hard to call CCP 'unethical' for sticking to the word of the contract that these people signed.

I got banned for botting and I'm mad!

You mean the people who got a warning for botting, and who then continued to do so, so got banned?

Or those who did direct client modification? Sure, /some/ of them might not have realised. But still, it's hard to call CCP 'unethical' for sticking to the word of the contract that these people signed.

No, they cheated and broke rules with punishments that could not have been more clearly expressed.

I am 100% opposed to any such amnesty. EVE's gameplay is founded on player interaction. People who bot steal the game from the rest of us. They distort the game economy and devalue player professions. They cause power imbalances. They cause resentment and disillusionment amongst players who don't cheat. They do harm.

To hell with them.

Why was a thread directed at CCP moved to Jita Park?

But on topic.

Bots, RMTers and people who try to fudge the code, deserve a ban.

Frankly I think CCP is to soft on them.

Is part of your argument that those banned are just stupid?

People who are smart enough to tinker with the client code are smart enough to know that it's disallowed.

Again, you also are taking the worst case scenarios and using them to . . . read what i said in my 2 uper responses.

We are not comprehending all the other cases that are absolutlly not deserving of a perminent bans; thus, we have spawned an entire base of unethically banned players...

So what is that? A simple error in quantifcation and an run way crew with an plausible ego problem. That is when we define the 1st premise, of many, via emotion instead of logic (Counter is actaully a glass of water).

Every single last on of ya, has used the demonified Bott or Code Changer to run a moke with the very essence of this letter; which is, read the bloody post.

How, also, would it not release the utility of an % # of your crew that is fending of cyber attacks when 1/2 of those cyber attacks would be rended NULL by simply doing this.

Bolting the lid shut and boiling away the barking . . .
I do believe that I got my point accross . . .
It is human nature that we are fighting:
to presume that each new player is an EULA expert,
or even literate to the point of being able to read such, is utter folly.

And for the 4th time . . .
Does anyone notice how every single post is automatically refering to the worst case scenarios?
Stop bloody refering to the worst case scenarios : credit card fraud, code changing, bots.

Every single last on of ya, has used the demonified Bott or Code Changer to run a moke with the very essence of this letter; which is, read the bloody post.

Here, an analogy :
I met a man in Jail that was there for parking ticket violations,
he told me that he could not get out of jail cause in that jail there was a group of mean people that did terrible things.

to presume that each new player is an EULA expert,

or even literate to the point of being able to read such, is utter folly.

The people doing this have read your post. In your post, you say two particularly damning things:

1) everyone who has been banned should be unbanned;

2) if you just let people hack the game, they won't be so tempted to compromise and DDoS it.

Right off the bat, you're not talking about people . . . . . .

The implicit threat in #2 is a nice touch, by the way:



Nice game you got . . . .

Great , yet again :D

How does it escape you that I am refering to CCP's joust with human nature.
How does it escape you that i am not refering to the worst case senarios.
And by human nature i am refering to players that are getting banned for doing what they do in all other mmorpg's yet when they play Eve, they bring that cyber social bias with them . . expecting this game's EULA to be the same as all the other games ... and thus get banned.

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers

How does it escape you that I am refering to CCP's joust with human nature.

How does it escape you that i am not refering to the worst case senarios.

And by human nature i am refering to players that are getting banned for doing what they do in all other mmorpg's yet when they play Eve, they bring that cyber social bias with them . . expecting this game's EULA to be the same as all the other games ... and thus get banned.

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers

as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.

...
I am saying that we are fighting the nature of the regular "Joe".
Where our example pilot "Joe" is socially inclined to disregard E.U.L.A. reading and to get as many addons on its screen as possible.

Yes, very many people cannot read, [yet] that [fact] seams to escape allot of people...

as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.

OP got banned for cheating and feels the need to ramble on and on in language so unnecessarily purple its funny. No, none of us want you to get your character back. No, none of us feel bad that you cheated. And, no, none of us believe that you didnt read or know of the content in the EULA.

this is how the OPs first post should actually read:

"HI i used to use addons in WOW all the time but when i tried to use them in EVE i got banned and now im sad. is anyone else sad for me?"

thats pretty much the only argument hes made so far.

Since EVE's subs are at an all time high, it seems that CCP are gaining more subs from people who are happy to see cheaters banned than they're losing from the cheating community.


Excellent trade off IMO

I disagree. They chose to cheat. They chose to ignore the rules. They deserve to be banned.

I have zero sympathy.

Completely agree, I am tired of people thinking they deserve a warning or a second chance.

There was a paper done by Professor Edward Castronova of Indiana University in 2006 that found that the 3rd party RMT sites probably cost MMO companies possibly over a million dollars a year per 100,000 players. Earlier this year he revisited the question and he still maintains 3rd party RMT sites cost game companies money. So getting rid of the ISK sellers who work outside the approved PLEX to ISK system is good for business as games with less of the activity are more likely to hold onto players.

And before Malcanis asks for links, here they are...

To download the original paper...
A Cost-Benefit Analysis of Real-Money Trade in the Products of Synthetic Economies

Professor Castronova's update...
Question: Why is 3rd Party RMT Evil?

as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.

OP got banned for cheating and feels the need to ramble on and on in language so unnecessarily purple its funny. No, none of us want you to get your character back. No, none of us feel bad that you cheated. And, no, none of us believe that you didnt read or know of the content in the EULA.

this is how the OPs first post should actually read:

"HI i used to use addons in WOW all the time but when i tried to use them in EVE i got banned and now im sad. is anyone else sad for me?"

thats pretty much the only argument hes made so far.

So people are just completely helpless and incapable of setting boundaries. Cool! That must be why the overwhelming majority of EVE's famously cutthroat playerbase hasn't been banned for the behavior you're talking about, right?

The fact that threats and retaliation are an indisputable part of the human condition doesn't mean that everyone else should just roll over and let them happen.

Think, man. It's not hard.



You are calling for everyone who's been banned to be unbanned. That, by definition, includes all the worst case scenarios. So you're just flailing.



That's what the first strike is for: "Hey, yo, we don't do that here. Have a slap on the wrist." Permanent bans are reserved for people who know that they're doing something CCP doesn't want them to do, and do it anyway.



Yeah point me to a language that is not this flawed . . .
Im not gona go reasoning with you . . .
by definition you are correct in all of those points . . .
Give some feed back . . . dont assume that when i said "un bann offenders" or what the [censored] i said . . . that i was refering to ISK sellers, or isk spammers . . .

Infact, i took a 2 month pause from these forums just to get some proper feedback . . .
Do you notice that every single last response is just Giberish about Isk spammers ? Its like a mad house in here.
And thanks for you perspective.

Ridiculous. In fact, the player base has been growing steadily despite the bans. You should probably start there and work backward until you are forced to conclude that your false conclusion follows directly from hallucinatory premises.

If you want an arbitrarily customizable environment, Second Life is that way ---->.

Thank you . . .
What about designing an "Ravenloft" . . .
or the concept of N+¡+¦h+¦ggs Chamber (hell) . .

So lets say a person can't stop the offenses due to its simple Evil nature . . .
so instead of "banning" all the Evil people . . . and inveitabbly as the curve reaches infinity . . . having a player base of [censored] up good goody two shoes that don't know [censored] . . . all the Evil people would be in an private "N+¡+¦h+¦gs-Chamber" / Hell / Ravenloft . . . Duking it out or forming alliances . . .

Hey maybe when all you [not u Ming Gren] evolve outof your [censored] egoes and see the forest for the BARKING . . . this post will make senece.

Edited for clarity :
A curve reaching infinity is a math concept . . . i am pointing out that the continued action of banning people for their "Ebil" nature will inevitably "given time" give us a player base of "goody goody two shoes".

every single last response is just Giberish

tl;dr


In conclusion, and beware the demonology . . . (its just letters)
What kind of self delusional [sensored] would impliment such an reaction towards it's companies subscribers? No one!
I would suggest that we have here an case of RL Corporate warfare, where we have been feed subterfuge and false statistics that ultamitely lead CCP to the self defeating "zero tolerance". An policy that cannot be changed by any regualr [muu muu] Joe cause Joe could never see through its ego, even if Eden IS burning!! So stop fighting your regular subscriber which is a space ship loving hacker that has better things todo then read 3k pages of EULA pr week and is via nature breed into following socialy acepted biases over all other things.

g) the origianl post was edited (only notification-of-persepctive-lines added ; else, the original post is unchanged exluding spelling-errors) due to popular perspecive flaws people kept [censored] about.

Thank you . . .
What about designing an "Ravenloft" . . .
or the concept of N+¡+¦h+¦ggs Chamber (hell) . .

EvE and everything in it is CCP's property if they decide to ban someone for breaking the code of practice (which we all agreed to when signing up to play EvE) they can. What happens to, in or because of other games and the MMO industry at large matters not a jot. Ignorance of or disagreeing with the EULA is not a defence.

End of story.