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Daugar Draaken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1
   |
Posted - 2013.07.14 04:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Fix Eve by repairing its design priorities. Right now eve is severely misogynistic and appeals to an audience that over emphasizes the "neckbeard" demographic. Turning Eve less inherently (viciously) misogynistic will make it palatable to a wider audience, and not just "women in general".
Sadly, CCP itself seems to be a somewhat "one sided" and "color-blind" organisation.
http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/07/women-and-eve.html
"It's amusing you're in the CFC with all their "Redditors are MRA idiots" propaganda, since most of your comments on females come off like a whiny white dude who wants to be in his whiny white dude bro-club." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
248
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 09:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't see any merit in this at all, females have equality of opportunity across of all eve simply by downloading the client and joining in the fun. Also before you throw around accusations like 'one sided' or 'neckbeard', not to mention 'misogynistic' you need to back that up with facts, a link to a crappy website that's full of bias is does not constitute 'facts'...
Men and women are different that is a fact, men and women have different physical attributes and different brain chemistry, that is also a fact. Men and women like different things, fact. CCP Seagull is a woman, also a Fact! CCP have other women working for them too, yet another Fact. Latest expansion focusing on exploration and discovery was headed up by CCP seagull, you know the woman in charge of development at eve online.
If a woman plays eve, takes the heat that all eve players go through and sticks it out, she is equal to any man that also plays... Fact
by the way that is also equality, and it's true equality based on merit.
Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
965
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 11:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daugar Draaken wrote:Fix Eve by repairing its design priorities. Right now eve is severely misogynistic and appeals to an audience that over emphasizes the "neckbeard" demographic. Turning Eve less inherently (viciously) misogynistic will make it palatable to a wider audience, and not just "women in general". Sadly, CCP itself seems to be a somewhat "one sided" and "color-blind" organisation. http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/07/women-and-eve.html"It's amusing you're in the CFC with all their "Redditors are MRA idiots" propaganda, since most of your comments on females come off like a whiny white dude who wants to be in his whiny white dude bro-club."
Because it's very well known women don't fart, never say bad words specially in their private channels and never have jokes about males nor have trash talking about males sex etc. amirite??
One is only a victim of his own stupidity and arrogance when he/she is unable to go over that "there's no women on the internet" or "all internet dudes are pubbies that never see a female sex in other places than youtube special chans or in fleet chats"
If some have trouble with basic jokes or take internet games/players too seriously they should stay away from PC's and get a console.
Whoever doesn't like Eve and its players jokes/behaviors can stay away from it, guy or girl no focks were given.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Daugar Draaken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.07.14 12:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
The point is not to provide a politically correct environment for skirts.
The point is that the kind of people that might play Eve Online is a very very small demographic. These are very particular kind of self-interested people. I might even argue that the people that engage in Eve take a certain level of selfrighetous delight in their perceived intellectual superiority.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that. Players of the Eve Online game are free to not give a flying **** "as long as the game favours their tastes, everyone else can go and die".
My personal preference however is to see Eve Online expand from its current player base, and it's current very low recurrence rate (players that keep playing it after trial) to a substantially bigger game. My personal enjoyment hinges on new game features and experiences. So my selfish selfinterest in engaging in Eve Online is to see a range of experiences and gameplay that is substantially more diverse, and one that evolves faster. To facilitate that the regular subscriber base needs to grow. To do that the CCP developer base needs to grow. To facilitate that is simply not possible with the current "change hostile" demographic of Eve Players. Some of which make repeated statement that their enjoyment is to drive other people out. and keep "Eve Online small and an exclusive club".
If this goal of growing Eve can be realized by making the game more "experientally diverse", as to attract housewives, senior citizens, small children, golden retrievers, transsexuals, people with Down syndrome, hot fashion models, jews, I don't care. It's all the same to me, as long as more people pay CCP more money. My proposal should be read in that light. |
Alsyth
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 14:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
The article in the first post in quite good: you get trolled equally in Eve, male of female, Eve just doesn't offer a content that appeals to many female players.
Just implement Incarna properly, offer an ability to do interesting things in station with your avatar (and not a ship), to create things like clothing, customize an avatar for someone else (for a fee), and you'll see more female players.
No need to turn it into The Sims. But think of "Worlds of Darkness" and put it in Eve station, you'll get the female playerbase Eve is lacking at the moment. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
249
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 17:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
so where is the misogyny as stated in the OP? You do understand that misogyny is deemed to be a hatred of women. I don't see any case for that at all. Both in terms of game development and game lore. Eve is full of interesting and strongly portrayed female characters in the fiction, not to mention the real life development team. You also stated 'one sided' and 'colour blind'. I am sure the head of CCP's equal ops policy would take very great offence at that.
Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
187
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 18:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daugar Draaken wrote:The point is that the kind of people that might play Eve Online is a very very small demographic.
And that is a problem because... ? ? ??? Bigger is not always better.
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Albireo Kalem
Orion's Fist
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Do you have actual Ideas or Features to discuss?
I dont see you make any suggestions. I dont even see you make concise complaints.
Are you actually complaining, that EVE has to much Militarism in it? You might aswell compain, that Battlefield 3 has too many guns in it. EVE's primary content is about struggle and war. Wars are fought by military (and espionage, economical pressure, propaganda, betryal, etc...).
And please if you call someone (or a product, company, ...) "viciously misogynistic", "one sided", "color blind", you should always give evidence and not mak a blanket statement without any merit.
Oh and btw this: " whiny white dude who wants to be in his whiny white dude bro-club" is not sexist or racist at all... f-ing hipocrite |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
10
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Posted - 2013.07.14 19:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
i'm not sure what the op wants ccp to do. i read the article and that says, when boiled down to the basics, that eve has little to offer female gamers and male attitudes has little to no effect on membership at least no more than any other mmo. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
10729
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daugar Draaken wrote:Fix Eve by repairing its design priorities. Right now eve is severely misogynistic and appeals to an audience that over emphasizes the "neckbeard" demographic. Turning Eve less inherently (viciously) misogynistic will make it palatable to a wider audience, and not just "women in general". Sadly, CCP itself seems to be a somewhat "one sided" and "color-blind" organisation. http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/07/women-and-eve.html"It's amusing you're in the CFC with all their "Redditors are MRA idiots" propaganda, since most of your comments on females come off like a whiny white dude who wants to be in his whiny white dude bro-club."
I'd be the last to deny that there's a streak of misogynism amongst EVE players, but there's nothing intrinsically anti-woman in the game itself.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
Tribal Band
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 04:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think OP missed quite abit in Poetic's blog post there. |
Nariya Kentaya
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
654
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 04:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alsyth wrote:The article in the first post in quite good: you get trolled equally in Eve, male of female, Eve just doesn't offer a content that appeals to many female players.
Just implement Incarna properly, offer an ability to do interesting things in station with your avatar (and not a ship), to create things like clothing, customize an avatar for someone else (for a fee), and you'll see more female players.
No need to turn it into The Sims. But think of "Worlds of Darkness" and put it in Eve station, you'll get the female playerbase Eve is lacking at the moment.
No, you wont, the women who play EVE now are the same that will continue to play after Incarna is released, because no matter what you introduce with incarna, ships will still be the focus of the game's mechanics, which most of those people will have no interest in.
Fact is, people always talk about this "significant" group of the female demographic that "would only play EVE if it included things traditionally associated with femininity".
Which is a stupid assumption, there is not a single women/girl I have met in EVE that cares any more about incarna than any guy, the kind of players who would join EVE only because of incarna are the same people who would never subscribe because the rest of their game (about 90%) has nothing to do with what intersts them. the female demographic we HAVE is the female demographic EVE WAS ALREADY DESIGNED FOR. There is no content in EVE that discourages women from playing, there is no "hurrdurr -1 STR and INT because female", everyone gets equal opportunities, so instead of reaching out for some imagined customer base of women who just cant wait to try out The Sims: EVE, reach out to the ones we already have and realize they want the same thing the guys want, and thast an engaging game of political intrigue and military/capitalistic conquest.
but seriously, getting tired of people always talking about how we'd have more women if not for "neckbeards and a lack of girly things", you people talk like were whats keeping girls away, but i'd imagine you've spent less time around female GAMERS than those you speak of so much.
sorry if post got a little incorherent or rant, im tired and trying to get this typed out before my internet drops again. |
Blastil
The Reblier Alliance
79
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 05:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Look, this kind of "lets reach out to X demographic" stuff is baloney. Frankly, No matter how hard CCP tries to make EVE a woman friendly game, its just not going to change the fact that the vast majority of gamers who are interested in games LIKE eve are men.
The idea that CCP should make game features to bring demographic X into the game is the problem that caused the whole incarna fiasco in the first place. A bunch of neckbeards in iceland were trying to figure out what women wanted in EVE online, instead of what the hundred thousand other current REAL subscribers wanted. Developing this game to appeal to some etherial demographic X which may or may not appear because you put shoes, and a changing station into the game, or because you plugged a FPS inside the planets is entirely foolish, and has been proven in the past to just make us all angry.
While some of these development directions pay off (I think CCP is making money off Dust514, at least judging by how many times I get killed by Aurum purchased weapons) directions like Incarna did not.
This is not to say that things like incarana shouldn't be worked on, but rather that they should be approached from the direction "how can we make our subscribers happy?" rather than a "what if we could get Demographic X to be happy if they some how, some way found our game, and liked it?" Because developing for the former means everyone who matters is happy, and developing for the ladder leads down many dark roads of making EVE more like a fantasy RPG theme park, rather than a dynamic breathing world without end.
CCP should focus on the core game play: Creation and Destruction. Ethereal, unobtainable demographics be damned. I don't care if women don't play the game, I care that I play this game, and I want it to be the best game ever made. |
Nariya Kentaya
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
656
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 06:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Look, this kind of "lets reach out to X demographic" stuff is baloney. Frankly, No matter how hard CCP tries to make EVE a woman friendly game, its just not going to change the fact that the vast majority of gamers who are interested in games LIKE eve are men.
The idea that CCP should make game features to bring demographic X into the game is the problem that caused the whole incarna fiasco in the first place. A bunch of neckbeards in iceland were trying to figure out what women wanted in EVE online, instead of what the hundred thousand other current REAL subscribers wanted. Developing this game to appeal to some etherial demographic X which may or may not appear because you put shoes, and a changing station into the game, or because you plugged a FPS inside the planets is entirely foolish, and has been proven in the past to just make us all angry.
While some of these development directions pay off (I think CCP is making money off Dust514, at least judging by how many times I get killed by Aurum purchased weapons) directions like Incarna did not.
This is not to say that things like incarana shouldn't be worked on, but rather that they should be approached from the direction "how can we make our subscribers happy?" rather than a "what if we could get Demographic X to be happy if they some how, some way found our game, and liked it?" Because developing for the former means everyone who matters is happy, and developing for the ladder leads down many dark roads of making EVE more like a fantasy RPG theme park, rather than a dynamic breathing world without end.
CCP should focus on the core game play: Creation and Destruction. Ethereal, unobtainable demographics be damned. I don't care if women don't play the game, I care that I play this game, and I want it to be the best game ever made.
And by developing with the intention of satisfying and expanding the experience of the current demographic, they WILL indirectly reach out and pique the interests of other demographics who can find their way to EVE naturally, rather than joining EVE for one niche that is not well fleshed out. |
Andracin
Sickology
154
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 08:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have been in corps with females and believe there are three types.
One type can handle their own, it takes a couple times of someone making a joke or sexual suggestion about them and getting a verbal choke slam and it gets pretty well sorted out. Dudes just treat her like any other pilot on the merits of her skills and the attempts at flirting/sexual innuendo pretty much go away. I have some former corpmates who are women who I still keep up with just because I respect them as pilots and people.
The second type can't/don't/won't hang with the rougher elements of EvE. Ive mostly encountered them in industrial/pve type activites and they quit early in their career because lets face it, industrial life is repetitive nails-on-chalkboard boring. When subjected to some 40yr old living in his mother's basements' "suggestion" they mutter some weak response and log. Or vent at another corp mate after the offender has logged. In either case they usually move on to other games.
The third, and to me the worst kind THRIVES off being a woman in an all male MMO. They flirt it up on comms, encourage every dude to more or less make corp look like a **** chat, get stupid horney dudes to give them stuff for free (to what end Im not sure), and generally cause chaos and drama. I've seen a good dozen corporations vaporized overnight by them-- in which case Im not sure which sex is the "victim" in the senario. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
543
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 09:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daugar Draaken wrote:Right now eve is severely misogynistic and appeals to an audience that over emphasizes the "neckbeard" demographic. Turning Eve less inherently (viciously) misogynistic will make it palatable to a wider audience, and not just "women in general".
Sadly, CCP itself seems to be a somewhat "one sided" and "color-blind" organisation.
Misogyny is thrown around a lot when it shouldn't be. A misogynist is someone who hates all women. I have yet to meet a single person in EVE who hates all women. I've met lots who take the **** but then they do that about everyone, not just women.
There is no evidence for there being any more misogynists in EVE than in any other game or in society in general.
Accusations like that just make you look ignorant.
Could you define what you mean by "neckbeard" demographic, please? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2047
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
ITT: women dont like fun and interesting games because it confuses their pretty little heads.
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Tessa Purvanen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
when you were a child many people will tell you what you should do.
when you grow up, you can decide what you want to do.
people who think they can tell you, what you should do, are ********.
they have the minds of children and they attempt to enforce the illusion of public consensus.
I have never agreed to any public consensus beyond the bare minimum of utilitarianism.
I detest misguided attempts to fix problems that do not exist.
treat them as the children that they are, ignore them.
a paranoid friend once said
there is a mysterious group called "They"
who wish to get between Me and Myself.
Me and Myself are a rowdy bunch,
if you get between us, we will eat you for lunch. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
477
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
I love how you can spell misogyny correctly in your post, but not in the thread title.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University
Ivy League
163
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
I love how you discriminate against one demographic 'neckbeards' (my beard is full and luxuriant, thank you), while claiming the game discriminates against another demographic.
My favorite feature is when the game asks for your gender and if you say female you get redireted to a site with housekeeping tips. |
gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 15:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
2/10
Was not trolled. |
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
537
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 15:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
There are not enough Fijiians playing and we need to reach out to that demographic by creating more island systems.
or is it that they have other things to do?
Do NOT start with dated stereotypes of girls being bad at math so they don't like our spreadsheets in space game. Google 'girls
are bad at math' then get back to me.
Do we change the game to something entirely different because a specific demographic is not showing up enough? I don't think so. We continue to encourage CCP to make a good game and improve on it with each iteration. We enforce the rules that are IN PLACE already, not because we want more girls around but because we want an environment where there is no need for white knights at all, everybody can play and be comfortable with the play environment. Race, gender, sexual preferences, religion, political leanings, whatever.
Back to Fiji. If we make island systems will we be losing all our players from the plains of A
make a game everybody can play . . . don't start changing it from what it is just to chase one group at the expense of another
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Pulgy
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 18:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Who let this social justice warrior out of its cage?
No range? No problem!Join the Church of the Holy BlasterGäó . A Hybrid religion. |
Doddy
Dark-Rising
856
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nice troll blog. If women don't like Eve surely that is their problem?
Given the incredibly low retention and proliferation rates female gamers statistically have it would not make much financial sense for ccp to change their playerbase away from middle aged men who have given up on life anyway. |
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