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Carrier Skill Costs ???

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El'jonson	Posted - 2005.12.09 15:26:00 - [1] Was just looking on the test server, carrier skill 930mil ???? OH my god please tell me this isn't the final price. Some of us actually want a carrier and can't yet print our own isk. If it is this is maddness, it means it will cost more for the skills just to fly it than to buy a carrier. Other than the uber high impossible to obtain standings required for jump clones(bar the 24/7 mission runners), I just want to ask the same question as everyone else. When is RMR being released ?
Micklaine	Posted - 2005.12.09 15:38:00 - [2] It very well could remain at that price. Skill books are a great ISK sink for CCP. Doesn't capital ships cost something like 600m? So it's not like the precedent hasn't been set for incredibly expensive skills. In addition, everything I read on the forums from people who have speced the costs of building a carrier say it runs 750m-800m to build. It will cost a lot more than that to buy. Probably doesn't make you feel better, so sorry for that. Oh and RMR release date and patch notes should be announced today (according to Kieron). -Mick Just Micklaine. You know, like Madonna. Or Cher. Or other people who forgot to give themselves last names at character creation.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2005.12.09 16:12:00 - [3] This is totally out of line! A dreadnought skill costs 80ish million and carrier 1 bill? It would make sense to ask 1 bill for a skill to fly a 15 bill ship like the mothership but 99% of all carrier pilots will fly the small one and to ask 1 bill for a skill to fly a ship with 600 mill baseprice is INSANE! If you want to make it expensive to fly motherships then give it it's own damn skill basing on carrier III. I really hope this is not final since it makes no sense at all.
Jester 1K	Posted - 2005.12.09 16:13:00 - [4] Thx for the reply, capital ship skill is around 360mil. Drednought skill is only 90mil so OMG are ccp really trying to lose players because with this sort of thng I am sure they will. I mean Once you consider the cost of the other skills and fighters (16 mil each). This starts putting the cost of a single carrier plus skills to around the 3-3.5 billion isk mark. Considering that drednoughts not carriers are the uber combat ships and that carriers were surposed to be affordable by most of the corps in game i think this is beyond a joke. I mine for most of my isk and I was hoping that using a carrier 2 jump into low sec and use it as a temp base for a day or 2 for me and my corp mates to mine and rat from, at this cost I can't see that happening. I thought ccp were desperatly trying to get ppl to move out into 0.0 space ? If you are reading this devs 'this is the sort of thing that keeps ppl bottled up in empire space'. Just to put this into perspective 3 billion isk is... 1500 cans of scordite which would take roughly 750 hours to mine thats 32.6 days 23hours a day to mine. So say 4 ppl mining 8 hours a day thats still going to take 23.4 days and thats 8 hours a day buy which time none of them can use a carrier because they have all gone mad.
El'jonson	Posted - 2005.12.09 16:14:00 - [5] Doh sorry above post is my alt
Macro Media	Posted - 2005.12.09 16:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Jester 1K Thx for the reply, capital ship skill is around 360mil. Drednought skill is only 90mil so OMG are ccp really trying to lose players because with this sort of thng I am sure they will. I mean Once you consider the cost of the other skills and fighters (16 mil each). This starts putting the cost of a single carrier plus skills to around the 3-3.5 billion isk mark. Considering that drednoughts not carriers are the uber combat ships and that carriers were surposed to be affordable by most of the corps in game i think this is beyond a joke. I mine for most of my isk and I was hoping that using a carrier 2 jump into low sec and use it as a temp base for a day or 2 for me and my corp mates to mine and rat from, at this cost I can't see that happening. I thought ccp were desperatly trying to get ppl to move out into 0.0 space ? If you are reading this devs 'this is the sort of thing that keeps ppl bottled up in empire space'. Just to put this into perspective 3 billion isk is... 1500 cans of scordite which would take roughly 750 hours to mine thats 32.6 days 23hours a day to mine. So say 4 ppl mining 8 hours a day thats still going to take 23.4 days and thats 8 hours a day buy which time none of them can use a carrier because they have all gone mad. Erm NO. Joe blogs and a friend go to 0.0 They kill 2 officers spawns and relise the loot is worth 2bil at least. They sell loot and buy carrier skills. They decide to enter a 5/10 Drone Complex, one in a battleship and the other in a t2 industrial. After filling up the t2 industrial they have enough in alloys to almost pay for a carrier. They both laugh on the way back as they look at people who are still mining scord. ------------ Criminal EVE Guides Evil Genius 101 Guide
Aeaus	Posted - 2005.12.10 01:41:00 - [7] You sir have no understanding of how rare finding officer spawns or completing a complex. Hell it's even more rarer to find an officer drop that isn't useless ammo and basic mods.
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.12.10 02:21:00 - [8] The price of the carrier skill is definately tied to the mothership. If it holds up to production it is a s-t-u-p-i-d decision. Pure and simple. Ships are expensive enough. No need to double the cost of a carrier to the individual pilot like that. Bad, bad, bad, bad gamedesign if you ask me. Times bad. Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques
Fortior	Posted - 2005.12.10 02:38:00 - [9] Oh please, it's not like these capitals ships were made to cater to solo players. What were you planning on doing with them anyway? Run missions? And the cost isn't exactly impossible for a corp to meet, even a small one. Hell, I know solo players that have made enough money for a mothership even. One person has, to the extent of my knowledge, two freighters, one Phoenix dread fitted with mods for ~1 bil, a silly amount of assets and more than 3 bil in liquid cash. And she hasn't even played for a full year, by herself. If one person can do all that, it's hard to believe that a corp can't. Originally by: CCP Hammer mmmm boobies
El'jonson	Posted - 2005.12.10 11:53:00 - [10] Could a small corp afford one at these prices? Possibily, however the point is if your a small corp not in a war all the time what is the use of spending the 3-4 billion to outfit a carrier (and thats for 1 person to be able to use it). Lets not forget as well that they can't go above 0.4 so in empire wars they are useless. They really have only 2 'peace time' roles either as a command ship when ratting or mining in low sec, or being able 2 jump into deep 0.0 space where they can meet other corp members and act like a mobile base from which to do the same as low sec. To be fair it can't really do this very well as if your corp mines alot like mine then the cargo bays on a carrier are a joke. To me the carriers seem to be a bit of a waste of time in a peace time role so what is the point in having them when the roles they provide are surpassed by motherships and titans. They seem to be to useless to the smaller corps that they were origionally planned for and now they are to expensive for the solo players. It would've been alot more usefull if instead of a carrier ccp had made a ship that might of been the same price (3-4 bil) but of more use to smaller corps. Lessen the offensive fighter arament and give it greater cargo capacity and maybe a small internal refining array (50% base but takes 15 mins to refine a can). Then corps would venture out into 0.0 space which is what ccp are trying to get them to do.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.12.10 15:05:00 - [11] The problem : The carrier skillbook at the moment is used for two ships : Carrier : buildcost : 600-750m Mothership : buildcost : 15 billion. The skill cost has apparently been set to 1 billion as far as I know, which sounds reasonable compared to the motherships. (930 I'm assuming is the NPC's starting to discount because they aren't selling many - all NPC goods can eventually go down by 10%, so this one would go to 900 in the end) That skill cost is very much overkill for the carriers though, by the time you have gotten capital skill and carrier skill you will have paid more than twice the cost of the ship Solution ? The only reasonable one would seem to be seperate skills for carriers and motherships .. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
phillip duncan	Posted - 2005.12.10 16:17:00 - [12] One of the devs was talking about allowing the small carrier in high sec for corp wars but with out is distent deployment of fighters. The link to the article is http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=254711
niroshido	Posted - 2005.12.10 18:06:00 - [13] you do realise they have it like that because the carrier is massive and its "supposed" to be a benefit to the players who can claim i higher power ingame it seperates the weak and semi rich from the strong and filthy rich, everything that is made and assigned ingame is made so that no one absolutly no one gets an overwhelming tactical advantage without earning the privilage, every item ingame is set to a certain price so people would work there b^tt cheeks off to get there, even when u start the game at the start a apoclypse is outragiously expensive and the time for training is completely bounching off the walls time consuming, but its all part of the game its slooooow burning mmorpg, CCP insures that NO ONE can get ANYWHERE FAST (also sorry for caps but point has to be highlighted) when i started this game i started in the hope that this game would be time consuming and the effort to get that apoc worth it and so still to this day i still dont have it but i dont think its outragious, it was like that so noobs dont get things like that and follishly squander it in a sec and that other noobs wouldnt either, it put control over the community and puts it so ppl cant get it easily and when they do it would be worth the wait. could u imagine a guy or girl playing eve a month flying round in 0.0 ganking every player he/she sees cause they have a raven and then a player that has skills triple to that his or hers completely ganking the unholy ranks out of em wouldnt u be suprized if the person that just ganked him and her had r*ped him or her in a moa, why would this high skilled person have innhilated the raven, cause his skill completely out matches the person flying that raven, the game is designed that its not the ship that kick b^tt but its the pilots skills at how good the ship is, but since this new ship the carrier is coming in, it would provide a tactical advantage over fleet battles but at a great cost, its support and a super toy to the rich and powerful were the little kiddies can play with the other toys as the big boys and girls can have fun by innhilating ships , the price is set to offer no one a massive upper hand but to gradually offer those who are deemed worthy of having such incredable power and offer it for a substantial price that is equal to the capabilties that would be added to your name also im sorry for the constant dribble i wrote up there im tired and thats my excuse i am from heaven givin to the darkness and lost in the earth (what the bugger was i talking bout there!)
Macro Media	Posted - 2005.12.10 18:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Aeaus You sir have no understanding of how rare finding officer spawns or completing a complex. Hell it's even more rarer to find an officer drop that isn't useless ammo and basic mods. Finding officer spawns are not that hard - Just remember to check out true security status. If you find less than 1 officer a for every 4-5 hours npcing in 0.0, then you obviously are not taking one of several factors into account. Regarding complexes. they are only 1-2 jumps from high sec for 5/10 drone, and taking a ganker and t2 industral (t1 industrals cannot enter) is perfect. The industrial fills up and I expect no less than 150mil of alloys per hour - Minimum. The point is, my comments were to the guy thinking that carriers are overpriced compared to mining scord!!! Anyone who is used to 0.4 and less knows how to make money and does not do something stupid like mine scord. I mean, WTF would a scord miner want with a >0.4 only ship, since nobody mines scord in >0.4! ------------ Criminal EVE Guides Evil Genius 101 Guide
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.12.10 19:57:00 - [15] Carriers are about twice the size of a battleship - one fifth the size of a dreadnought. Motherships are a few times bigger than dreadnoughts. Dreadnought : Build cost : 1.5 billion Skillbook cost : 100m (90m with NPC discount) Carrier : Build cost : 700-750 million Skillbook cost (Carriers) : 1 billion (900m with NPC discount) Mothership : Build cost : 15 billion Skillbook cost (Carriers) : 1 billion (900m with NPC discount) Tech I ships in general have a skillbook cost somewhere around 8% of the cost of the ship, this is true for the mothership and dreadnought, battleship etc, the problem here is just that two massively different sized ships are using the same skill book. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
TIELKERON	Posted - 2005.12.10 21:43:00 - [16] Anyone who is used to 0.4 and less knows how to make money and does not do something stupid like mine scord. I mean, WTF would a scord miner want with a >0.4 only ship, since nobody mines scord in >0.4! LMAO I live in low sec and mine everything so your statement is false. It's fun to mine and kill the noob wannabe rat every once in a while.
Caldorous	Posted - 2005.12.11 01:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Carriers are about twice the size of a battleship - one fifth the size of a dreadnought. Motherships are a few times bigger than dreadnoughts. Dreadnought : Build cost : 1.5 billion Skillbook cost : 100m (90m with NPC discount) Carrier : Build cost : 700-750 million Skillbook cost (Carriers) : 1 billion (900m with NPC discount) Mothership : Build cost : 15 billion Skillbook cost (Carriers) : 1 billion (900m with NPC discount) Tech I ships in general have a skillbook cost somewhere around 8% of the cost of the ship, this is true for the mothership and dreadnought, battleship etc, the problem here is just that two massively different sized ships are using the same skill book. Just a little question, what is that npc discount? ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
Dahin	Posted - 2005.12.11 03:50:00 - [18] guys, SERIOUSLY. For the first time I sat down a few afternoons sucking morphite while there was nothing else to do. Just to kill of boredom and have something to click while I'm babbling on ts. Result: solo-mined about 1bil worth of it. Making money IS easy, even for non market-specialists. Calculate the cost of a 50-man fleet moving around for 6 hours (happens quite often). I calculate it by comparing it how much they'd make mining the high-end of their area. That's lot's of carriers there per day spent on fleet-op's that usually end up giving you 5-10bs kills.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.12.11 10:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Dahin guys, SERIOUSLY. For the first time I sat down a few afternoons sucking morphite while there was nothing else to do. Just to kill of boredom and have something to click while I'm babbling on ts. Result: solo-mined about 1bil worth of it. Making money IS easy, even for non market-specialists. Calculate the cost of a 50-man fleet moving around for 6 hours (happens quite often). I calculate it by comparing it how much they'd make mining the high-end of their area. That's lot's of carriers there per day spent on fleet-op's that usually end up giving you 5-10bs kills. Doesn't matter, the issue isn't the cost per se, but that said cost is out of whack to the cost of the ship it is for. If the skillcost was in line to that of the cost of every other tech I ship in the game (including dreads, motherships, titans, battleships and so on) it would be about 50 million, not 1 billion. Arguing its fine because you can make a lot of money is like arguing it should take an hour to undock in a battleship because you can wait around for an hour. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.12.11 10:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Caldorous Just a little question, what is that npc discount? NPC goods start at 100% price, if they go unsold the NPC's slowly drop the prices, the result is that most high supply/low demand goods (skillbooks, POS modules, etc) eventually reach the limit of -10% price. NPC goods in demand go up in price, most noticeable on trade goods of course. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Caldorous	Posted - 2005.12.11 13:52:00 - [21] thx ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
Styles Fairchild	Posted - 2005.12.11 22:44:00 - [22] Eve seems to be on the same catastrophic economic model as most other MMORPS where instead of making true money sinks they simply up the cost of big things that never need maintenene or wear out into the gazillions In GOOD games with resoures, it usually costs a ton of money or resources just to move large ships and fleets around, it cost a lot of supply just to attack something and everything takes money simply to maintain. If "Fuel" to move ships around cost money, and there was maintenece costs on keeping ships, which was 10x more for operating your active ship in space ect. you could could drop the BUY cost of everything to a fraction and you would have a much better form of money sinking. It would mean that it's not very costly at all to get ONTO a big ship, but to maintian the ship and to USE the ship is wear the real money ads up. People wouldn't buy Huge Battleships unless they intended to use them, you wouldn't be PK killing noobs in frigates with a fleet of Battleships to be sure, you would at least bring out your smaller ships. If you simply MISMANAGED your corproation by having a fleet you don't use or a starbase that wasn't profitable, players who don't make money on the ships you give them, you could drive your corporation into bankaruptcy. Thats how true economic game models work, but I think Eve went for the "Quick Sell" with this game and now its catching up with them just like all other games who suicide with this current model.
niroshido	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:40:00 - [23] lol the above sounds like ogame where the bigger the fleet u have the more dueterium u need i am from heaven givin to the darkness and lost in the earth (what the bugger was i talking bout there!)

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