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Pascalle Sylveste
Black Slag Authenticated
You Failed the Mumble Test
8
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Posted - 2013.07.15 00:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all, I'm sorry if there is another thread where this issue is being addressed, I could not find it and the search here seems to be busted.
I'm going to add to the chorus of "yay for the minigame and OBLIVION to the scatter bullcrap" and reproduce here what happened to me a while ago and I mailed to friend:
(...)
I feel cheated out of my money and my time. Today, I found a H-PA Crew Blue Pill Production Facility. I thought "Yay, a combat ladar. I made excellent isk out of these before, maybe they are not completely screwed over in odyssey.", but let me start from the beginning.
I arrived at home today around 01:00 am my time, after having a good time with my friends. I do my stuff, sit down at my computer and prepare to play my favorite game (yes, surprisingly it is EVE. I completely love this evil, evil thing). So, I get on, see that we have two null doors in our system (been getting a lot of those lately, A LOT) and I set out to explore. In K8K-6B, I find the aforementioned H-PA Crew Blue Pill Production Facility. As I said, I get excited, because I've done combat ladars before and got really good isk out of it for my troubles. So I set about to start doing the site. Since it's a null sec site, and the system has an outpost in it, I do it very carefully, since I'm alone. I spent over an hour dealing with the site, other players coming in local and whatnot. Finally, I succeed in clearing it, and go back to fetch my hacker ship (which odyssey kinda ruined, but let's not dwell on that) and go back to hack the cans. Since I discovered that I can scan the cans before hacking (actually kinda neat) I look for the useful stuff, like skills, bpcs and reactions. I find them and start hacking. I get some of the stuff from the others and then I turn my attention to the real prize: the can that contains the skill Nanite Control, which is actually worth something, and would compensate for all the troubles I went through in the doing of the site. So I hack the can, and succeed! Yay! No, no yay. Because the skill was the only thing in the can, and the hateful scatter containers that spewed forth none of those I was able to get had the skill. So I lost the thing that made the site really worth it for me. Meanwhile, my corp mate that was waiting for me left, it got really late and the only thing I could do today in EVE failed miserably, where before I would have had fun doing the site (challenge is good!) and would be properly rewarded for all I went through. Now my reward just vanished in one of those miserable and detestable little cans.
Seriously. I understand the wanting to refresh the hack/analyze system. The mini-game is actually kinda cool. But these scatter-things are simply an abuse! If they introduced the minigame and left the old way, to just open the can if I succeeded or it blowing up if I did not, ok, I would get that. But after succeeding all those challenges to have my prize snatched away from me because a very idiotic game mechanic is simply too much. So this is why I even considered petitioning for this ask for a compensation for that senseless loss but I doubt they would give the book or the isk to me. And don't get me wrong, one of the things I love about EVE is the no-quarter, no mercy and no cookies way of life, but this is just plain stupid. It's a bad, ****-ish deranged system and should be removed from this game. This is completely unacceptable. I just imagine if it was a radar in our system, and what I lost were malfunctioning sleeper relics, or a intact hull section. Unfriggincceptable.
---
And that is my 0,02 isk on this whole debacle. |
Humang
Sefem Velox
Swift Angels Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.07.15 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
I entirely agree with you on this.
I to love the mini-game, its a nice challenge to an originally boring system, but the scatter mechanic is just to much, and doesn't add anything to the game except frustration. As you said, keep the mini-game, just have it unlock a normal container. |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 02:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
The loot spew is a major disconnect between the rest of the hacking process. For the spew you have frantic action, for everything else you can take as much time as you like unless other players interfere.
Then there is the disconnect between the spew and the rest of Eve. Every object in space that we can interact with can be placed onto our overview. Except the spew cans. |
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
Tribal Band
18
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Posted - 2013.07.15 04:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
While yes I'd like to also these cans to be on overview the rest is hogwash. You simply aren't using all the information resources available to you. For example salvage from relic sites are always in Parts or Materials. and other then those spacial attunement thingies the rest of the items have logic too them as well. I can 100% say I would of gotten that Nanite Control book assuming I successfully hacked the can. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
319
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Travasty Space wrote:While yes I'd like to also these cans to be on overview the rest is hogwash. You simply aren't using all the information resources available to you. For example salvage from relic sites are always in Parts or Materials. and other then those spacial attunement thingies the rest of the items have logic too them as well. I can 100% say I would of gotten that Nanite Control book assuming I successfully hacked the can.
Agreed.
The loot spew has player skill involved in it. Thus meaning the smarter player still makes more profit. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
332
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Posted - 2013.07.15 06:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:The loot spew is a major disconnect between the rest of the hacking process. For the spew you have frantic action, for everything else you can take as much time as you like unless other players interfere.
Then there is the disconnect between the spew and the rest of Eve. Every object in space that we can interact with can be placed onto our overview. Except the spew cans. It also doesn't make any sense that a "successful" hack results in everything flying off. It should be that a successful hack means a loot window opens (since you successfully hacked the lock) and failure means loot scatter so at least you can get *something* as a consolation prize.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
543
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Posted - 2013.07.15 08:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
The loot spew sucks. It's pissed off a lot of players. However, CCP certainly won't be changing it because not enough people cancelled their accounts over it which is the only real metric they appear to pay attention to.
I know the naming convention makes it so you can at least take a guess at what you're getting but the whole mechanic still sucks. I honestly cannot see the point in it other than as an exercise in frustration and annoyance.
There doesn't appear to be a decent lore explanation for why everyone suddenly made all their security systems throw miniature cans out whenever someone breaks their security. It's a truly stupid process. From a game mechanic side it doesn't really make much sense either, unless the purpose was to intentionally annoy the hell out of people. |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
36
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Posted - 2013.07.15 08:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Travasty Space wrote:While yes I'd like to also these cans to be on overview the rest is hogwash. You simply aren't using all the information resources available to you. For example salvage from relic sites are always in Parts or Materials. and other then those spacial attunement thingies the rest of the items have logic too them as well. I can 100% say I would of gotten that Nanite Control book assuming I successfully hacked the can. Agreed. The loot spew has player skill involved in it. Thus meaning the smarter player still makes more profit.
How does it benefit smarter players ?
I see two ways of doing it:
- Bring a cargo scan. Go for the containers that have the most valuable stuff.
- Find some other use for the mid slot. Grab the containers by the value of their typical loot.
I can grab containers as fast as Eve lets me, and knowing the order to loot them in isn't a problem. Identifying the first container is tricky, so I just grab a random one and identify the next to grab while I'm tractoring in the first one. It doesn't seem skillful to me. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
462
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 13:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:The loot spew is a major disconnect between the rest of the hacking process. For the spew you have frantic action, for everything else you can take as much time as you like unless other players interfere.
Then there is the disconnect between the spew and the rest of Eve. Every object in space that we can interact with can be placed onto our overview. Except the spew cans. It also doesn't make any sense that a "successful" hack results in everything flying off. It should be that a successful hack means a loot window opens (since you successfully hacked the lock) and failure means loot scatter so at least you can get *something* as a consolation prize.
Actually that would be fun, victory means the can gives a standard drop based on formula, failure means the spew.
So do you take the 40% guarantee on everything or risk it on the spew?
Skill thinking knowledge and more all from what used to be 8 days and click a button |
Jerrick Chase
Spacial Reconnaissance
5
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've said it before and I'll say it again that exploration is no longer a fun and relaxing past time to do in EVE but now a tedious and RSI enducing click-a-thon.
I still personally don't understand what enjoyment someone gets out of the minigame. I'd compare it to making a sandwhich and when you're finished and go to take a bite all of the stuff in between falls out, some of it on the floor thats covered in dog crap rendering it unusable anymore and if you're lucky some of the meat stays on the counter. Every time you play the minigame thats what happens. Every. Time.
As for requiring skill... lol. Just lol. Such skill to google and follow a website on which cans to click on.
Maybe if there were various bands of frequencies that were offset from each other at varying wavelengths that required you to syncronize multiple bands of frequencies in order to get the correct tone that would pop the can open within a certain time limit. No, I don't remember what game I got that from but it was fun.
These bands should also be partly shrouded by static, these are old sites after all not to mention destroyed most of the time. Don't get enough correct tones and the cans spew from the explosion at a reduced drop rate. Should also take AOE damage from that explosion. Successfully open the can and the cans are reduced from multiple parts/materials/data/scrap canisters to just one a piece and you can essentially loot the field whille keeping the spewgasm mechanic. Add to that, you only get one shot to hack it, if you fail, you screwed it. No second chances. On top of that, there should be some form of defenses that have survived. Something. Not in every single site but thats exploration, it should have a modicom of risk involved no matter where you're at.
Hacking can decrease the static interference and increase the time necessary to sync up the bands.
Whatever those new modules that were introduced (does anyone actually use them?) could do the same.
Hell, since CCP wants minigames, I'd even suggest putting in a little actual hacking. As in command prompt. Hack into the core, decrypt the locks, pop open the cans, and get the loot. If you fail the hack, things explode. Not a panzy explosion either, a rock the house down kind of explosion with AOE effects. Not only do you lose that loot but you should have to repair your ship to boot. Then you can add some new scripts into the game, make the hacking module require having a script installed. Need to use different scripts for different tasks.
That'd be worthy of some EVE is "hard" mentallity. That'd require some skill. |
Pascalle Sylveste
Black Slag Authenticated
You Failed the Mumble Test
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 20:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Requires skill? Really?
Do you really believe that I was not aware of the pathetic little graph in a CCP article indicating which cans had the best loot. And of course I went for them first. And if you are not aware, there is a chance your prize will end up in a scrap can.
Nevyn Auscent and Travasty Space, from what you said, I assume you have never even been to a combat ladar. What really is complete and utter hogwash is what you just said, assuming I had not went straight to the Parts/Materials/Data cans, according to the graphic I cited before.
Quote:While yes I'd like to also these cans to be on overview the rest is hogwash. You simply aren't using all the information resources available to you. For example salvage from relic sites are always in Parts or Materials. and other then those spacial attunement thingies the rest of the items have logic too them as well. I can 100% say I would of gotten that Nanite Control book assuming I successfully hacked the can.
What required skill was not being obliterated in that system by the mofos that were passing by or logging in. Also driving away those who tried to take the site from me. That took skill. Also, hacking that kind of can is not a breeze like empire or weak truesec cans. So don't talk to me about skill or knowledge-base use. You can say 100% of nothing, just that your reply is arrogant, your perspective is flawed and is clearly just pathetic bravado that only shows your lack of knowledge and experience with the subject. |
Pascalle Sylveste
Black Slag Authenticated
You Failed the Mumble Test
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh, and another thing for those who didn't understand from my text: I had a cargo scanner. I knew the skill was in there and went to the proper containers (this link has the graph I mentioned before: Dev Blog: It's graph time!). But doing it alone means you probably will lose something.
And another thing: recently doing a Talocan Battleship with a Relic Analyzer surround by people so we did not risk losing any part of the stupid pi+Ķata, we opened and grabbed every single scatter can. Fleet loot history showed what? Some of stuff the cargo scanner showed was not even there it seems. And I see people reporting similar occurrences.
So yeah, sure. Player skill. Another good skill: thinking and reading before you write. |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pascalle Sylveste wrote:Some of stuff the cargo scanner showed was not even there it seems. And I see people reporting similar occurrences.
That sounds like a bug.
Not that I will ever notice it. Since I'll be attempting all hacking containers, scanning them first to see what is in them seems like a waste of time and I've got other things I can use that mid slot for. |
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