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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1185
   |
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Work Camp Central Control
Kihtaled II
Khanid Space
15.07.115
Statement:
I would like to thank interested parties for their patience regarding this report, which was much delayed by recent events and by the tempo of my duties in the warzone in Black Rise. As promised I have been repatriating prisoners of war recovered during this time - I would also like to thank the Officers and Shareholders of Pyre Falcon Defence Combine for their forbearance regarding my flagrant breach of company protocol.
I have now concluded my investigation of the workcamps in the Kihtaled system in Khanid space and am ready to make my statement regarding them.
Prisoners of war are processed at the site of capture and their loved ones and state of residence are officially notified. At this point they are then collected in a holding facility until the monthly transfer out of the warzone can be effected. This transfer is carried out be a neutral third-party to minimise the chance of loss of life due to attacks by the FDU on Caldari shipping.
From the warzone prisoners are shipped to the Central Control facility on Kihtaled II where they are inprocessed. This involves a variety of steps including background checks to ensure they are who they claim to be, any legal matters are then resolved. Those found guilty of crimes against one of the four major states are then turned over to the relevant authorities. Finally a full medical workup is given. Prisoners are than classified into four groups, A, B, C and D. Class A workers are cleared for heavy labour, Class B for light labour, Class C are deemed to need rest and treatment in the camp's medical facility before being cleared to work and Class D require major offsite medical treatment. Often Class D prisoners are made stable, fit to travel, and remanded to their home authorities for medical treatment, palliative care or whatever is suitable.
Once classified, prisoners are shipped to the surface of Kihtaled II, were they are assigned to living quarters within the camp. There is a short period of induction and then the prisoners are assigned to work details, as appropriate. Whilst some light industry and processing is done at satellite camps, most of the Class A work is in the Heavy Minerals sector. Prisoners assigned to these details are cared for by the Khanid companies that own these facilities and are accompanied by a camp liason to ensure that all details are correct.
Class A work makes up roughly 74% of the labour contracts. Work details are assigned to a contract for a period of not more than six months and then rotated back to the central facility for assessment. If required a prisoner can then be medically reclassified and, in any case, will be assigned to a different work detail and a different labour contract.
Income from the labour contracts is used to defray the costs of this system. In it's start up period it mitigates the many expenses, but it is projected that an income surplus might be shown once the start up costs are amortised in another four months.
I have examined the medical facilities and can report that they are adequate for their need. All non-elective medical needs are fully covered including dental, sight correction and other similar categories of medical treatment. I have examined the living quarters - at the main camp, satellite camps and offsite Khanid owned facilities. Surprise, surprise - the focus is on security and not on comfort. That said, the facilities are clean, well maintained and allow a reasonable degree of comfort. I've stayed in worse.
Prisoners are NEVER left in sole charge of local authorities.
Prisoners are released at the discretion of Pyre Falcon and are usually exchanged for State Protectorate or Caldari State citizen prisoners on a one for one basis in chronological order of internment.
The only case in which a Prisoner of War would end up sold into slavery would be if they had commited some egregious offence in the Khanid Kingdom or the Amarrian Empire that warranted such a punishment. These prisoners are remanded to those authorities as soon after internment as is possible - the same way that criminals wanted in Federation, State and Republic space are.
I remain available for questions should someone want to clear up any details I missed, but I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
245
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time.
Are work camps for prisoners of war considered slavery? Then every empire is guilty of it. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time.
I did say I would answer any questions, but I hoped they would be ones arising from my report and not regarding matters adequately covered within it.
"The only case in which a Prisoner of War would end up sold into slavery would be if they had commited some egregious offence in the Khanid Kingdom or the Amarrian Empire that warranted such a punishment. These prisoners are remanded to those authorities as soon after internment as is possible - the same way that criminals wanted in Federation, State and Republic space are."
|
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time. Are work camps for prisoners of war considered slavery? Then every empire is guilty of it.
And how many out source such camps to an entity known for its slave trade? Save your holier than thou attitude for those who care, slaver.
It is what it is, even other Caldari have said as much. PYRE are now naught but legal loop hole slavers.
And say what you will Civire. You are what you are. |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
242
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 18:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time.
Do you think the Villore Accords give tea and cake to their prisoners of war? That they chuckle over the lives lost, slip a few ISK in the prisoner's pocket, and send them home so that the enemy force can debrief them and reassign them to new warships? |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time. Do you think the Villore Accords give tea and cake to their prisoners of war? That they chuckle over the lives lost, slip a few ISK in the prisoner's pocket, and send them home so that the enemy force can debrief them and reassign them to new warships?
The opinion of a Sansha matters in this because...? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because she has a point.
Don't like the internment system? Exchange any POWs you take in a timely matter and your men will be back with you very shortly. Drag your heels and I guess they will at least be retrained into the mining industry - skills they can put to work when they DO get home. |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Because she has a point.
Don't like the internment system? Exchange any POWs you take in a timely matter and your men will be back with you very shortly. Drag your heels and I guess they will at least be retrained into the mining industry - skills they can put to work when they DO get home.
And you feel a need to do this by giving them to slaver filth as opposed to keeping them in your own camps? Keeping them within State borders as POWs would make clear sense and I would not even bother commenting on the subject if this were the case, as that is how war plays out.
However, your 'investors' seem to enjoy the idea of making the Minmatar and Gallente squirm by giving POWs to slavers and attacking both Empire's morale as opposed to keeping them in the State, which would logically be more efficient.
How interesting, slavers AND sadists. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1185
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Given the current instabilities in the State, I would have thought not having large populations of POWs at risk to reprisals was a plus point of the plan.
Work is work. Does it really matter who it's done for? As it happens, State industries tend to be highly automated, requiring a longer skilling-up period before a prisoner is productive. This work is physical and simple and provided the prisoner is healthy, it takes him virtually no time at all to learn to do.
Is it our fault that the Khanid Kingdom currently has the largest need for physical labour? That the labour market there is deemed as the most profitable for the start-up costs?
And really, just because they are working within the territory of a political entity that employs slavery for cultural reasons, does that mean they magically become 'slaves' as a result? No. They are Prisoners of War, performing work in order to cover the costs of their care and feeding.
Honestly, if they were contractors of any other sort, would you call them slaves? |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Given the current instabilities in the State, I would have thought not having large populations of POWs at risk to reprisals was a plus point of the plan.
And why was the initial policy of simply returning POWs to their home should they not be wanted criminals not effective in solving this? It set a good example. Oh well.
Quote:Work is work. Does it really matter who it's done for? As it happens, State industries tend to be highly automated, requiring a longer skilling-up period before a prisoner is productive. This work is physical and simple and provided the prisoner is healthy, it takes him virtually no time at all to learn to do.
It does tend to matter when slavers treat people as animals and not people. I wouldn't be surprised if regular 'medical examines' were soon brought up to ensure the POWs obtained regular doses of 'vitamins.'
Quote:Is it our fault that the Khanid Kingdom currently has the largest need for physical labour? That the labour market there is deemed as the most profitable for the start-up costs?
No, it's your fault for starting this shame of a policy and denying what it is. Slavery.
Quote:And really, just because they are working within the territory of a political entity that employs slavery for cultural reasons, does that mean they magically become 'slaves' as a result? No. They are Prisoners of War, performing work in order to cover the costs of their care and feeding. Honestly, if they were contractors of any other sort, would you call them slaves?
No, because POWs are not out sourced. As I said, it appears your shareholders have a sadistic streak. Defend it all you want, others will see through it, and continue to see through it.
Of course, I expect your CEO Veikitaamo to show up and spin her usual PR CYA story with her generous application of legalese to prevent this from being labeled as it truly is because, if the contract is legal, SURELY it isn't slavery. But still, it is what it is.
PYRE are now slavers. No contract language or spouted excuse will change that.
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
1036
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thank you for the transparency. I'm glad to see such upright behaviour, and hope that it inspires Federal and Republican militia parties to follow suit. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1189
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
It is if you define slaver as 'something in the Empire that outrages me' as opposed to any legal or factual definition of the word.
To be honest it seems that our policy of simply sending all POWS back home as expeditiously as possible was very wrong-headed since you now seem to view it not as an incredibly magnaminous act, but rather as something you are entitled to. It was a generous policy, one unmatched by any of the of the other organisations within the warzone and it is not surprising that our shareholders feel that captured prisoners of war now ought to be held until exchanged for Caldari crew.
Given the small size of Pyre Falcon and the disproportionately large number of POWs we pluck from space during the course of our legal duties, it ought not to be surprising that our share holders are unwilling to eat the costs for caring and feeding of enemy combatants.
You can call that Slavery if you want. I've been there. I've toured the camps.
All prisoners are held according to STATE law, as is their right. They are repatriated as soon as we can arrange an exchange with similar Caldari prisoners. |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
205
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:It is if you define slaver as 'something in the Empire that outrages me' as opposed to any legal or factual definition of the word.
So slaver and hypocrite. Lovely.
Quote:To be honest it seems that our policy of simply sending all POWS back home as expeditiously as possible was very wrong-headed since you now seem to view it not as an incredibly magnaminous act, but rather as something you are entitled to. It was a generous policy, one unmatched by any of the of the other organisations within the warzone and it is not surprising that our shareholders feel that captured prisoners of war now ought to be held until exchanged for Caldari crew.
Or, if you were capable of reading, you would have seen that I said it was a good example of a policy earlier on. When I first heard about it, it was my hope that those in the Federal Navy and political sphere would take note of these good deeds and perhaps return the favor. But that WAS my hope. But please, keep blaming me for obviously false short comings.
Quote:Given the small size of Pyre Falcon and the disproportionately large number of POWs we pluck from space during the course of our legal duties, it ought not to be surprising that our share holders are unwilling to eat the costs for caring and feeding of enemy combatants.
So instead of not feeding them and simply sending them back, they decide to put them through the rounds with slavers.
Quote:You can call that Slavery if you want. I've been there. I've toured the camps.
Your definitions of acceptable and others' definition may not be the same. Also, you are not exactly an independent third party, who's investigation would not be biased.
I won't bother arguing with you anymore. You are what you are. I'm now not surprised so many Matari in the labs use Pyre as a new form of curse and slur. It seems fitting.
Good day. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
245
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Given the current instabilities in the State, I would have thought not having large populations of POWs at risk to reprisals was a plus point of the plan. And why was the initial policy of simply returning POWs to their home should they not be wanted criminals not effective in solving this? It set a good example. Oh well.
This would have been foolishness of great magnitude. You do not return captured soldiers to their home country where they can take up arms and fight you again.
|
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
647
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Regrettably, Ms. Ambraelle, when Federal Navy personnel are put on the line, both the Federation and the personnel tacitly accept that they may be captured or killed in the course of duty. This treatment -- while not utopian, as you seem to think it should be -- meets the humanitarian requirements of the law, without putting undue burden on the State.
As you said, you'd hoped that the Combine's policy of immediate repatriation would be reciprocated by the Federal Navy and its auxiliaries.
It has not been.
The only real choice here is to lobby the Federation for a diplomatic resolution of the POW situation involving a mutual repatriation of POWs, or to withdraw naval personnel from the combat zone. I doubt you'll find either choice workable. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1189
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
These are Caldari built facilities. They are staffed by Caldari or Caldari trained staff. They operate according to Caldari State law, with whatever accomodations have to be made to comply with Kingdom legislation.
They do work for Khanid clients whilst they're waiting for exchange and repatriation.
But don't let facts get in the way of outrage. The previous policy was championed by myself, so I'm hardly pre-disposed to cheer at it's repudiation. It's interesting to note that not ONE SINGLE FDU ENTITY matched it. Not one. Neither did ONE SINGLE TLF ENTITY match it when we were briefly deployed on the Amarr front.
I personally commited to undertaking these inspections because of the misgivings people I respect had about this policy. I have performed my investigation, I have given my report. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.
Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
246
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The only real choice here is to lobby the Federation for a diplomatic resolution of the POW situation involving a mutual repatriation of POWs...
A mutual repatriation would simply result in both sides refusing to take prisoners at all, because that would be the only way to ensure those prisoners don't get rearmed and put into the fight again. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 19:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.
Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0.
But this never happens! Ever! You think someone would do that? Just pay another to rant on the IGS and..post propaganda?
DISCLAIMER: I am pouring the sarcasm hard on this post in case anyone missed it.
|
Lucas Raholan
Agenda Industries
85
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ms Ambraelle..if you feel that Pyre are enslaving their POW's may I cordially invite you to the Amarr Empire where I can show you real Slavery...I assure you it will far worse then how they are treated under Pyres watch.
The reason their handing a few over to the Khanid is not because they wish for them to be enslaved. if you had actually read the Report you would know that they are wanted criminals in the Kingdom and under law Pyre is required to hand them over.
I suggest you sit you're Tests again and read some books on the Politics and culture of the Empires before connecting to this feed again
I'm secretly a unicorn that Sh**ts fairy dust and sings all day-á |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucas Raholan wrote:The reason their handing a few over to the Khanid is not because they wish for them to be enslaved. if you had actually read the Report you would know that they are wanted criminals in the Kingdom and under law Pyre is required to hand them over.
That's a few though. Or by few do you mean any going to Khanid? Cause if you can source that, it'd shut just about everyone up (thankfully).
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1189
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Only POWs with legitimate warrants out for crimes against the Kingdom are handed over to Khanid authorities. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Only POWs with legitimate warrants out for crimes against the Kingdom are handed over to Khanid authorities.
And the rest of the POWs?
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1191
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Only POWs with legitimate warrants out for crimes against the Kingdom are handed over to Khanid authorities. And the rest of the POWs?
They're held in the system I described in my report until such time as they can be exchanged for Caldari prisoners. Or until hostilities end - which would be the better solution. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time.
Slavery is against the law in the State.
However, gallentean swines used to call slavery whatever they don't understand, just to attack and kill Caldari citizens.
And this is why the Federation must be destroyed.
Show them no mercy! |
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
761
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
While I appreciate the transparency, an agent of Pyre telling me how well Pyre treats its POWs isn't as meaningful as a non-affiliated, or even a Republic or Federation affiliated, person telling me the same.
Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Anslo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Only POWs with legitimate warrants out for crimes against the Kingdom are handed over to Khanid authorities. And the rest of the POWs? They're held in the system I described in my report until such time as they can be exchanged for Caldari prisoners. Or until hostilities end - which would be the better solution.
And there you have it folks, facts from the source without Ad hominem!
Next time on Questions and Courtesy with Anslo, we learn how to ask for the time WITHOUT insulting someone's familial heritage!
Tune in and see you all next week folks!
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1191
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:While I appreciate the transparency, an agent of Pyre telling me how well Pyre treats its POWs isn't as meaningful as a non-affiliated, or even a Republic or Federation affiliated, person telling me the same.
I don't see how I could deliver the report I promised in any way other than as an agent of Pyre.
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
1037
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:While I appreciate the transparency, an agent of Pyre telling me how well Pyre treats its POWs isn't as meaningful as a non-affiliated, or even a Republic or Federation affiliated, person telling me the same. I don't see how I could deliver the report I promised in any way other than as an agent of Pyre.
Perhaps you could offer a tour to an uninterested third party? That would be the best way to clear this unfortunate allegation. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1192
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'll pass the idea up the chain. Frankly, command is already irritated by this whole thing, so I'm not sure what kind of buy-in I could get.
Who would make a good third-party and be willing to do the tour? |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1567
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 20:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:However, gallentean swines used to call slavery whatever they don't understand, just to attack and kill Caldari citizens.
Ok I will almost agree with you here. Looks like Tali is just looking for cheap political propaganda points in the sadly usual fashion, which is as you said: Slapping a "slavery" label on anything that didn't come from the Roden Approved PseudoDemocracy. The Federation loves to that, naturally, as it lets their government spoon feed a false sense of casus belli in their wars of aggression & conquest. Fooling themselves into thinking that they're "liberating" the people that they, themselves, are enslaving (oh sorry, "Offering new lives in the glorious Federation workplace ... whether they like it or not").
Yes, the Empire has used very similar arguments in the past during own age of expansion. This is not a denial. Just pointing out that the Federation does the exact same thing but then lies about it to their own people. The Empire is not afraid to call slavery slavery. The Federation, on the other hand, likes to peel that label off their own "indentured workforce" and slap it onto other people's instead. Pure classic Federation hypocrisy at it's finest.
From what I've read, it looks like the State is doing a fair & impartial job of handling their POWs. I'd rather be captured by them than plenty of other groups I could name. I'm just glad that my mother was Amarrian, because being, in the Republic's words, a "mongrel halfbreed" I was not eligible for the "Pureblood Warriors Motherhood Program" when they kidnapped me all those years ago. I can't say the same for all the other young women they abducted. And then there's the Blood Raiders, Sansha's Nation, along with various petty nullsec bandit kingdoms that make even them look sane & humanitarian in comparison. New Eden can be a very sick, sick place indeed.
All things considered, being a POW to Pyre looks like a nice vacation compared to the seemingly endless depths of cruelty & depravity that mankind is capable of.
Ammatar - Matari by blood, Ammarian by the Grace of God. |
Steffanie Saissore
The Order of the Ebon Rose
94
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 21:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll pass the idea up the chain. Frankly, command is already irritated by this whole thing, so I'm not sure what kind of buy-in I could get.
Who would make a good third-party and be willing to do the tour?
Pieter,
I would offer myself as an un-biased third party willing to take the tour. I am not associated with Pyre nor am allied with the corporation and I have no allegiances within Khanid.
Ser Steffanie Saissore,
Knight Commander (Errant),
Order of the Ebon Rose
|
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
418
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 22:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
There won't be tours at this point. We're talking about high-security detention centres and not town fairs, after all, and it does not matter how much information is revealed - it will never be enough or credible for some, especially not those who like to see evil ghosts at every turn of the road.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
648
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 22:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
I would suspect any Sisters-affiliated group would serve best in this role. Failing that, a moderate Federation agency; this is to say, someone other than Soter, or similarly-minded Gallente. Mind, any inspection of Pyre facilities would best be compared with an inspection of comparable Federal facilities to ensure equal review.
Ideally, the treatment of POWs will be equivalent between the nations involved.
As an uninvolved party, it sounds as if the Combine is engaged in a good-faith effort to ensure the fair treatment of its prisoners.
Ms. Kernher, what you suggest is tantamount to a war crime. When engaged in rescue activities, one is required to make a good faith effort to save as many survivors as possible regardless of their affiliation. To do otherwise is to knowingly abandon others to death; while one does not directly take their life, one ensures their death. We could argue situations where there are hazards, whether continued combat or environmental hazards. Still, despite this, the Combine and other forces in the warzone are duty-bound to offer aid to the crews of destroyed warships whenever possible. To do otherwise is to treat the foe as an animal, and to become one with one's abandonment of duty. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
455
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 22:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:While I appreciate the transparency, an agent of Pyre telling me how well Pyre treats its POWs isn't as meaningful as a non-affiliated, or even a Republic or Federation affiliated, person telling me the same.
Whilst I may appreciate your concern, this report presented by Operative Tuulinen was a courtesy extended and largesse I have granted since I am at present under no legal obligations to do otherwise.
If it is deemed insufficient by some to act as placation of doubts, then that quite frankly is not my own particular concern at present. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1858
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 23:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
If, say, Ishuk-Raata arranged the development of labor programs for these POWs down in Syndicate, and Pyre were to transfer them to us... would this satisfy? Perhaps it would offer a more tasteful alternative, for PR purposes.
Do contact us if you're interested, Chairwoman.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki
~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer
~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Ralyn Longs
Blackwater Swat.
Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 00:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:So now the State turns to slavery to 'offset' costs of a system that was not needed.
Shocking.
I suppose it was only a matter of time.
My dear pilot, if you think this slavery then I suggest you open your eyes.
|
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
JIHADASQUAD
983
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 00:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Welcome to Khanid!
I'm pleased to see Pyre Falcon Defence Combine enjoying our hospitality and making some profits at the same time.
My offer is still on the table to take all of those pesky POW's off your hands. I promise plenty of fun for everyone when in my custody.
Until that happens though, any of you crossing the border into Kingdom lowsec will be flayed. One and only warning! *smiles*
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1192
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 01:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Welcome to Khanid!
I'm pleased to see Pyre Falcon Defence Combine enjoying our hospitality and making some profits at the same time.
My offer is still on the table to take all of those pesky POW's off your hands. I promise plenty of fun for everyone when in my custody.
Until that happens though, any of you crossing the border into Kingdom lowsec will be flayed. One and only warning! *smiles*
Only if the sluggish tinselled barges you fly can catch us, My Lady. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
JIHADASQUAD
983
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 01:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Fishing is our especiality, Mr. Tuulinen!
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
James Syagrius
Stillwater Corporation
That Escalated Quickly
470
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 02:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
If I may ask you to clarify one point.
Will the product of the prisoners be used to support the States war effort?
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
|
Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 02:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll pass the idea up the chain. Frankly, command is already irritated by this whole thing, so I'm not sure what kind of buy-in I could get.
Who would make a good third-party and be willing to do the tour?
Pieter, I would be honored to act as a neutral party... Anyone who knows me at all, know full well I have no ties to larger factions, politically or militarily, and don't give one whit for either sides aspirations. Perhaps as one of several, I volunteer to deliver a neutral party report, with the Chairwomans permission. |
Vikarion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
549
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:And why was the initial policy of simply returning POWs to their home should they not be wanted criminals not effective in solving this? It set a good example.
Because the State and its soldiers are not generally stupid. The Federation suffers from a chronic manpower shortage in its military forces. Giving back trained forces, especially when we receive none in return, puts us at a disadvantage. And, despite your maniacal focus on how awesome the Federation is, we do not share your view, and are not obliged to try to lose the war to make all your dreams come true.
And, furthermore, it's a fine thing, a wonderful thing, to hear a Federation supporter upset about the treatment of POWs. Why, if she weren't a total and complete hypocrite, she might have even bothered to advocate better treatment of Caldari POWs, whose mistreatment at the hands of the Federation has become notorious, to the point that they have their own SCC cargo entry. Oh, and, of course, contrary to convention, the Gallente Federation makes every effort to terminate any prisoners of war who might possibly be rescued. Just try rescuing some from one of their Black Rise internment camps.
|
ColonelNick
Providence Guard
Templis Dragonaors
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:If I may ask you to clarify one point.
Will the product of the prisoners be used to support the States war effort?
I'm assuming the Mineral and Ore production to produce warships or modules. Primary industry after all.
Also, Pieter, these Guri's that are giving you trouble should be thankful. We have a less... accommodating ... policy on our prisoners of war here in the Guard. They would be wise to remember there are worse people out there (me) who have power over incarcerated enemy combatants.
Personally, i find the security camera footage very entertaining.
Also, these Gallenteans in particular obviously haven't seen what their Matari buddies across the border do to the Amarrians.
Anyway, just thought I'd share that.
Colonelnick, CEO
Providence Guard. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1194
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:If I may ask you to clarify one point.
Will the product of the prisoners be used to support the States war effort?
Whilst the Ore, Biofuels and other commodities produced by the Labour Contracts enter the Khanid market and thence to any one of a number endusers, the money from these contracts goes into the books of Pyre Falcon Defence Combine.
At present the money merely starts to amortise the startup costs for the penal infrastructure, but eventually it will be used to help fund operations. That being said the answer is that, yes, it supports our war effort - however it is sufficiently indirect that it does not break any regulations concerning forcing a POW to work against his former colleagues. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1194
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Erys Charantes wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll pass the idea up the chain. Frankly, command is already irritated by this whole thing, so I'm not sure what kind of buy-in I could get.
Who would make a good third-party and be willing to do the tour? Pieter, I would be honored to act as a neutral party... Anyone who knows me at all, know full well I have no ties to larger factions, politically or militarily, and don't give one whit for either sides aspirations. Perhaps as one of several, I volunteer to deliver a neutral party report, with the Chairwomans permission.
Whilst I would consider you a fine candidate, the Chairwoman and our COO have both indicated that the report I gave is the sole concession that Pyre Falcon is willing to take at this time. I'd invite any of you to contact our officers directly should you have further comments to make. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1194
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Fishing is our especiality, Mr. Tuulinen!
I regret that I have no business taking me into that part of space at present. I've always wanted to name my Crow "The One That Got Away." |
Rioghal Morgan
Full Artificial Intelligence
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
If I recall correctly, when one of my corp mates lost a fight with a member of Pyre while they were deployed out our way, the survivors of his crew were returned to our home station after we arranged a trade of prisoners taken from another engagement. A fair and honorable deal if I've ever seen one.
While like any Gallentean, I'm less than thrilled to hear of anyone being given over to slavery, I would never call the Combine itself slavers. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1194
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 04:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
Rioghal Morgan wrote:If I recall correctly, when one of my corp mates lost a fight with a member of Pyre while they were deployed out our way, the survivors of his crew were returned to our home station after we arranged a trade of prisoners taken from another engagement. A fair and honorable deal if I've ever seen one.
While like any Gallentean, I'm less than thrilled to hear of anyone being given over to slavery, I would never call the Combine itself slavers.
I remember seeing paperwork on that transfer. Similar arrangements are still entirely possible - simply contact me with details of the number of POWs you have and the IDs of any of yours that we've reported in custody. |
Rioghal Morgan
Full Artificial Intelligence
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 04:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I remember seeing paperwork on that transfer. Similar arrangements are still entirely possible - simply contact me with details of the number of POWs you have and the IDs of any of yours that we've reported in custody.
I thank you for that. Fortunately, neither I nor my corporation hold any particular antipathy towards the State so I have some hope that we may not cross swords too often. The majority of State-allied pilots in my area seem to fly single-manned frigates anyway so the amount of prisoners taken from vessels allied to your corporation are negligible. I will keep the offer in mind should any of my guys run into yours however. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1194
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 04:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
See people? It's that easy. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1679
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 09:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
The pilots who are objecting to this need to understand one thing - there are many, many more capsuleers who would consider the taking and processing of POWs to be a waste of their time.
I were a Baseline crew member, I'd choose being on a well-supervised and humane work gang over slow death in a disintegrating wreck every time.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
My offer stands.
I can take from you prisoners of only gallentean origin and help you process them free of charge.
No questions asked. No documents provided. Transfer of prisoners will be conducted through anonymous contractor. |
Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Erys Charantes wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll pass the idea up the chain. Frankly, command is already irritated by this whole thing, so I'm not sure what kind of buy-in I could get.
Who would make a good third-party and be willing to do the tour? Pieter, I would be honored to act as a neutral party... Anyone who knows me at all, know full well I have no ties to larger factions, politically or militarily, and don't give one whit for either sides aspirations. Perhaps as one of several, I volunteer to deliver a neutral party report, with the Chairwomans permission. Whilst I would consider you a fine candidate, the Chairwoman and our COO have both indicated that the report I gave is the sole concession that Pyre Falcon is willing to take at this time. I'd invite any of you to contact our officers directly should you have further comments to make.
It's fine Pieter. The offer, made to you, stands. Just let me know. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2620
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 13:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:My offer stands.
I can take from you prisoners of only gallentean origin and help you process them free of charge.
No questions asked. No documents provided. Transfer of prisoners will be conducted through anonymous contractor.
Stay edgy Diana.
On another note, I don't get why this is even a public thing? Let them do what they do. If you REALLY don't like it, grab your guns and load your ammo, it's that simple.
On ANOTHER anther note, I happily volunteer to tour these facilities as a respected, intellectual member of the capsuleer community. Very respected.
Yes.
(No really, I volunteer if you change your mind).
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Diana Kim wrote:My offer stands.
I can take from you prisoners of only gallentean origin and help you process them free of charge.
No questions asked. No documents provided. Transfer of prisoners will be conducted through anonymous contractor. Stay edgy Diana. On another note, I don't get why this is even a public thing? Let them do what they do. If you REALLY don't like it, grab your guns and load your ammo, it's that simple.
Because this is business offer. Even if they don't accept it, maybe someone else who wants to get rid of gallentean POWs would like to use my service. This is pure business, Mr. Anslo. I don't need to "grab my guns etc etc" for this. You either take it or no.
Anslo wrote:
On ANOTHER anther note, I happily volunteer to tour these facilities as a respected, intellectual member of the capsuleer community. Very respected.
Yes.
(No really, I volunteer if you change your mind).
Why would I provide you with this possibility? This won't be recreational facility, go entertain yourself touring in other places, gallentean. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1685
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
I'm surprised that the labour market is reportedly so much more lucrative in the Kingdom, given that they buy into the Amarrian bloc's slave economy. One would have thought POWs operating under Caldari law wouldn't be a very attractive option to them when they could just buy more slaves.
Besides, with KK in need of an economic boost it would make more sense to me to put that workforce to use at home rather than abroad.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
733
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
As much as people just love to claim otherwise, not everyone in the Kingdom - or the Empire, for that matter - is legally permitted to own or employ slaves, Verin. There's a lot of time-consuming (and expensive, in some cases) paperwork that needs to be done, and even then, those slaves are typically considered to be on something approximating a lease to the business-owner.
There are plenty of companies in the area that would benefit from having low-cost workers available to them as a result of Pyre Falcon's facilities. It's quicker, less dependent on local politics, and likely cheaper for the business-owners due to Pyre and those leasing them the land for their facilities footing some of the living costs.
Morwen Lagann
Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1685
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Consider me educated.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Arista Shahni
Real Simple Construction
The Citadel Consortium
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:55:00 -
[61] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:As much as people just love to claim otherwise, not everyone in the Kingdom - or the Empire, for that matter - is legally permitted to own or employ slaves, Verin. There's a lot of time-consuming (and expensive, in some cases) paperwork that needs to be done, and even then, those slaves are typically considered to be on something approximating a lease to the business-owner.
Thank you, Morwen, for pointing this out.
Though many view 'slavery' as an ugly part of the Empire, and the Kingdom, please do understand that it is also very much the realm of the Elite or the Holy. It is an extreme taken, with many guidelines, laws, and rights in place. As for cost, I will refer anyone to global cluster market data and ask how many baseliners do they think earn that type of ISK in the day God made them for the random house-slaves people seem to think we must be literally drowning in, considering that if one does not have the right to possess such assets, that they will not remain theirs. All life is precious.
I am not familiar with the details of this planets' customs, but In my sect in Khanid Space, everyone spent at least one Measured Year in service as a retainee in a profession in which they were able as a lesson. There is a lesson that comes with service to something greater than yourself. It teaches you to be able to serve something greater than yourself in an organised unit, to forward humanity as a whole, and to raise yourself and those of your community. To become as the loving God, as close to peace in life as you can.
Perspective is something easily distorted and blurred when you have been trained to look at something from fifty-two meter axis to thousands of meters length in size, and imagine every one and everything it is comprised to of to be as simple as the single man or woman piloting. Or simply their name. Or simply a NeoCom color-coded mark of your HUD.
This is very clearly not Reclaiming. It is War.
A life for a life. It is simple. If you are willing to be outraged, be outraged enough to release your own prisoners.
This is, my hundred of meter tall friends, If you bothered to take any from the vaccuum of space before they perished.
Did you remember there are men and women in there?
Is this what it took for some of you to be reminded?
"I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1686
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
Don't insult us by trying to rose-tint slavery, pilot.
I'm prepared to accept that it's not as wide-spread and prolific as I had thought, but if you think there's anything "holy" about treating another human being as property, then your definition of holiness needs to be thrown in the incinerator.
Service to a higher cause willingly given by a free person is one of the most valuable things in all the worlds.
Serving a higher cause because if you don't, you suffer, shares none of that nobility. Not a scrap of it.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
835
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
Putting aside the whole slavery issue for a moment*... a Pyre pilot sets out to "investigate" conditions in a Pyre owned and operated prison facility and determines that everything is just super peachy swell and no prisoners are being abused! Imagine that!
Why did the words conflict of interest suddenly pop into my mind? 
*If this whole exercise in indentured servitude was above board and legal, why not base these facilities in the State?
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1218
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ah, a question I can answer, thank you Miss Rella!
Unskilled labour is not a commodity of great value in the State. We've never had huge amounts of it available and so our industries are just not set up to make great use of it. Certainly, I'm sure we could find work for these people - breaking rocks, for example, but it would be useless busy work. We would be compensated for it at a very nominal level.
Yes, they could be trained to operate complex machinery - most of them are ship's crews, after all - but this would open our industries up to the possibility of sabotage. In addition we just don't know how long they'll be in custody for, since there is no fixed or minimum term they'll be with us.
Thirdly there is a labour force shortage in the Kingdom. They don't have enough slaves to do the sort of labour that slaves do, culturally, within their economy. The Holders struggle to provide sufficient manpower to their retainers and the retainers struggle to modernise their economy. Modernisation is ongoing, but it may be a century or so before the Khanid industrial base is transformed to something more, uh, forward looking.
Hopefully the war and its prisoners will be LONG gone by then.
The final matter is one of the conflict of interest. I agree that I am not an unbiased or impartial observer, but when the news of this new program broke, a number of capsuleers came to me and demanded that I 'do something about it'. I told them I would no submit POWs that I captured to this program until I had investigated the situation for myself.
I did this and I make my report public, for what it is worth. Understand that this is me, personally, concerned about my image with people who are important to me. Pyre Falcon Defence Combine really doesn't care what you think of it, unless you're a voting shareholder. Their officers couldn't be more aggressively disinterested at your opinion of them, for the most part. |
Andrea Okazon
Alexylva Paradox
86
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
Do you risk reprisals from them for doing so?
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1220
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
No, not at all. Whilst I'm sure they're rolling their eyes at what they consider to be appeasment, the Chairwoman gave her permission for me to do this. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
456
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 18:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
Andrea Okazon wrote:Do you risk reprisals from them for doing so?
This was a personal request I granted Operative Tuulinen as he felt it was important. Or do you think anything much of all occurs inside Pyre Falcon without my tacit consent?
And as far as I'm aware they do not yet make rugs wide and heavy enough to wrap Tuulinen up in our internal Black Van squads.
I suppose he'll just get off free this time. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
204
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 18:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Synthetic Cultist wrote:Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.
Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0. But this never happens! Ever! You think someone would do that? Just pay another to rant on the IGS and..post propaganda?DISCLAIMER: I am pouring the sarcasm hard on this post in case anyone missed it.
The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.
The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre.
Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.
Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1221
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:Anslo wrote:Synthetic Cultist wrote:Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.
Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0. But this never happens! Ever! You think someone would do that? Just pay another to rant on the IGS and..post propaganda?DISCLAIMER: I am pouring the sarcasm hard on this post in case anyone missed it. The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle. The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre. Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre. Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox. Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified. Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted.
We thank you for your vigilance in this matter, Ma'am. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
275
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
While I'll admit I'm not an unbiased party in this debate, I do feel compelled to point out that this change in policy on the part of Pyre stems from the failure of their earlier policy of "POWs will be repatriated, we encourage our foes to do the same".
When I say "failure", by the way, I mean "their foes largely did not do the same".
I would encourage all militia members chiming in on this discussion to give as forthright a report of the disposition of any POWs they capture - and what percentage they leave on the field.
Bio and writing |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
278
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.
I'm betting on Myxx. It's the same kind of bush league psych-out nonsense they went in for. |
Andrea Okazon
Alexylva Paradox
89
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:While I'll admit I'm not an unbiased party in this debate, I do feel compelled to point out that this change in policy on the part of Pyre stems from the failure of their earlier policy of "POWs will be repatriated, we encourage our foes to do the same".
When I say "failure", by the way, I mean "their foes largely did not do the same".
I would encourage all militia members chiming in on this discussion to give as forthright a report of the disposition of any POWs they capture - and what percentage they leave on the field.
This is key. The ideal, of course, from my perspective, would be for Pyre and Villore to stop shooting at eachother. Failing that, while I can't exactly bring myself to take Pyre at their word, they're the most transparent of any of the belligerents.
Really, I believe the Federation should not be lagging behind in the area of "humane war" -- to the limited extent that that phrase isn't an obscene joke. |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
216
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 22:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.
How deep and meaningful. Too deep for most. How do you do it?
Quote:The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre.
Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
How fascinating. The blooder is associating an Academy student with a universal conspiracy. I suppose the lessons regarding the Law of Parsimony missed you during Bleeding School? But please, do continue to label a simple, factual statement as propaganda involving a misfit band of transhumanist Anoikis vagabonds. Your assumptions make me smile.
Quote:Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.
Let me guess, the Jove did it?
Quote:Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted.
Thwarted? Airing an opinion against a hypocritical slaver and not responding to every other response means...I'm thwarted? What's it like in that little world of yours? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1223
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 23:21:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jailer. Not Slaver. Jailer.
And actually, my duties don't include supervising the work camps, so I'm not even that. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
423
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 23:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Andrea Okazon wrote:
This is key. The ideal, of course, from my perspective, would be for Pyre and Villore to stop shooting at eachother.
To heck with that, where else should we get our entertainment out of then?
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
278
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 04:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Well, we could gang up on the Republic...
Bio and writing |
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 05:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Do you think the Villore Accords give tea and cake to their prisoners of war? That they chuckle over the lives lost, slip a few ISK in the prisoner's pocket, and send them home so that the enemy force can debrief them and reassign them to new warships?
I've taken POWs into my personal custody a number of times before transferring or exchanging them. Tea, yes. Cake, not typically. Although at least one prisoner was actually a damn fine baker, strangely. I prefer to have them prepare their own meals, if possible. GMVA makes an effort to repatriate captured POWs without too much delay. It helps in negotiating the timely return of our own captured crews. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Well, we could gang up on the Republic...
Could work.
But first, we should gang up on the Federation.
This den of scum and villainy must fall. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
206
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Posted - 2013.07.17 06:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:Synthetic Cultist wrote:The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle. What's it like in that little world of yours?
It is Considerably More Fun than being a Mere Puppet voicing the Opinion of others.
Enjoy having your strings pulled, Puppet. |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
223
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Posted - 2013.07.17 13:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Synthetic Cultist wrote:The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle. What's it like in that little world of yours? It is Considerably More Fun than being a Mere Puppet voicing the Opinion of others. Enjoy having your strings pulled, Puppet.
Coming from a bleeder with a penchant for odd capitalization, I find your label to hold little value. |
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