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Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
87
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Posted - 2011.10.28 04:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Goose99 wrote:It actually complete misses the mark. If you pop a superior ship with superior fitting and superior SP, it has nothing to do with you being good, and everything to do with the other person sucking and making a mistake. Eve is a spreadsheet combat sim game, not a twitch shooter. There's no manual control. Assuming the other party is minimally competent and not make mistakes, the spreadsheet stats will show and there's nothing you can do no matter how "good" you are. I don't think you know what your talking about....... Superior ship or fitting: How exactly do you quantifiy superior in eve. Situtuations change and opponents change, so while some fits might be superior for an exact formulaic situation, the situtations you find yourself in are not so exact. Different shps have different roles, different weaknesses, and different strengths. When flying around, there are too many exterior factors to catagorically declare superior fittings and superior ships. Eve is not a twitch game, so skill in that sense is not applicable. Skill in eve relates to applying your knowledge and manipulating your ship to give you an advantage. This is done at the fitting screen, this is done in setting up combat, and this is done during combat. Being good has EVERYTHING to do with applying your knowledge and controlling your ship. If you don't consider that skill, your ignorant. I've killed many, many inties and the occassional AF's with t1 frigates... although its typically not easy to kill an AF. In particular, I've killed enyos (easy) and ishkurs (difficult) with standard fit rifters. They are NOT short fights (60-120s), and often backup will arrive and you'lI have to GTFO before finishing them off. I'm positive I could gank most harpies too, but they just aren't out and about much. The trick is keep out of blaster range and kill them with barrage. With ishkurs, you have to kill the drones first. Rail merlins and tristans should also win against blaster harpies and enyos, but rails will have a very hard time against ishkur drones. The Rail Merlin and Tristans are also very good against mwd-fit inties. I'm pretty sure I can special fit a tristan/merlin/rifter to kill a standard fit wolf or retribution... but it would be a very close fight (50% chance of winning), and I would have to start the engagement at zero. The repping ability of a vengence or hawk makes killing them with a t1 frigate very difficult. Range control is a key aspect to winning most of the fights above. Most faction frigates have bonus' that either allow them to control range, or other bonuses that make range control ineffective.
Full of BS. You do realize "superior" as I put it is relative, right. And don't fit rails...
Again, it's not a twitch shooter, where one headshot solves everything and there's a difference between "godlike" and "competent" player.
Eve is spreadsheet online. Options are limited. With inferior fit in inferior ship and inferior SP against the ship/fit you're fighting against, the only way to win if waiting for the other side to make a mistake. If he doesn't make a mistake, you're sunk. There is only the difference between "competent" and "incompetent." It's not your "skills" but rather the opponent's lack of it. |
Siva Surya Kshatriya
Buccaneers of New Eden
The Forsaken.
13
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Posted - 2011.10.28 07:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's very difficult unless you're in a faction frig. If you're in an ordinary T1 frig like a Rifter or Incursus, your best hope is to take advantage of your quicker speed and fit some kind of arty/long range kiting fit. If you're a really good pilot you should be able to stay at like 16k and pound them down without taking too much damage (unless it's a Wolf or even a Jag depending on the fit). You may not even break their tank though, or at least before they call in backup. |
Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
9
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Posted - 2011.10.29 21:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
"How do you beat a superior opponent? Through superior tactics."
The answer is: it is most definitely not easy, but nowehere near impossible. It is very situational, though.
Ah, you seek meaning?-áThen listen to the music, not the song. |
Acuchai
Tyrannis Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 10:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
If you engage a ship that on average is superior, winning usually depends on countering a weakness specificially well. If you take piloting skill out of the picture (which may be one of those weaknesses) parameters such as cap, speed, range, targeting and tracking are left. You will have to counter one of those parameters to such an extend that in that particular circumstance your inferior ship becomes superior in that battle.
If you fit your ship to specifically counter another ship it usually means that your ship becomes worse for unexpected encounters, but that is the price you have to pay. One variant of this tactic is to fit "bad" t1 cruisers to kill expensive t2 and faction frigates by fitting them with dual webs, small guns and neuts.
Frigates are tougher to fit, because of slot layouts and amount of slots you usually have less options. However there are a few. For instance one way would be to dual-web+2pt a frigate (such as the merlin) and engage targets that have to get close. Or you could use a tracking disrupter (optimal range) to reduce range if you can otherwise keep range as well. Kiting is an option if you have superior speed and range (usually +10k range). The Griffin for instance can be fit with 1 racial jam to perma jam a few t2 frigates. Or you could active tank a few ships with an injector and rely on a high but short burst tank.
Another point to consider is that you need to package your ship that your enemy is not expecting your "unusual" fit. However with frigates that is less of a concern, that is usually more important with t1 cruiser fts.
So to sum it up: if you fly regular fit t1 frigates against regular fit t2 frigates you will always loose. You will have to think out of the box. One place to start looking is electronic warfare, specifically ecm and tracking disrupters, dual-web and ab+2pt scrams. |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
26
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Posted - 2011.11.01 11:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
A plain vanilla 125mm AC Rifter (125mm ACs, nos, web, scram, sar, dcu, 200m plate, rigs) can out track both a Wolf and a Jaguar and if you can get under its guns you have a chance. It's been done.
A MWD TD Crucifier can kill an AB AF.
An MWD Arty Rifter can kill an AB AF.
etc. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions
40
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Posted - 2011.11.01 21:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jude Lloyd wrote: [...] A merlin can tank the dps incoming from some AF's.
^^This.
And most any other T1 frig (possible exception: Scorch-lensed pulse laser Punsher, though I don't fly those, so ask someone who does), at any real range (>3-4km), whilst using his rockets to project a large part of his DPS right to their max range, especially if/when you're webbed, and then that beastly little tank will simply out-last you.
Don't underestimate the Merlin...
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 23:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Wolf n jaguar maybe no- but i imagine it wont be impossible to take out blaster enyo in anything that can kite |
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
DUST ALLIANCE
6
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Posted - 2011.11.02 23:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:Kush Monster wrote:depends on the frig... a T1 Dramiel with a competent pilot can beat nearly any t2 Pirate =/= t1
Pirate ships are T1
Tech lvl != Meta lvl |
xenodia
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
2
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ive seen interceptors taken down 1 on 1 by a hauler. Ive seen an assault frig take out a BC 1 v1. There is no pre-determined outcome in a 1v1. |
Causalitii Eullon
C.A.S. Assisted Living
1
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:
It actually complete misses the mark. If you pop a superior ship with superior fitting and superior SP, it has nothing to do with you being good, and everything to do with the other person sucking and making a mistake. Eve is a spreadsheet combat sim game, not a twitch shooter. There's no manual control. Assuming the other party is minimally competent and not make mistakes, the spreadsheet stats will show and there's nothing you can do no matter how "good" you are.
You sir are an idiot |
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