Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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take a clue troll, more then one person is telling you to STFU.

you are ranting and whining, not go away, don't go away mad, just go away.

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Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

Post with your main and I might pay an ounce of attention.

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Originally by: konkord

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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take a clue troll, more then one person is telling you to STFU.

you are ranting and whining, not go away, don't go away mad, just go away.

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Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

Post with your main and I might pay an ounce of attention.

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I have had quite a olot of respect for you, Dark, you've said some really interesting points which i feel reflect the gameplay of eve.

Now, i fear, your coming across a bit too much of a tit. Whats the *****? why i have you turned troll-like?!

Dont argue with people?! its not debate like, it doesnt get us anywhere... your just arguing for arguings sake. STFU with all you forum arrogance, this aint like you. i dont like it.

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Originally by: konkord

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Dont argue with people?! its not debate like, it doesnt get us anywhere... your just arguing for arguings sake. STFU with all your forum arrogance, this aint like you. i dont like it.

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Originally by: Richard Majestic

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This post is going to be a list of problems with the trial account proposal and a list of solutions to those particular problems. Please contribute to this list -- hopefully it will get attention.

Problem 1: The trial account change hurts organized efforts to bring new players to the game by making it harder to distribute goods and money to new players.

Solution 1: Trial accounts in NPC corps are restricted as planned. Trial accounts in player corps are not restricted.

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Its to late changes get implemented tommorow.This debate can wait after new years once everyone is sober.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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I'm not exactly sure of that. I've heard that new players can't accept escrows and money, and I've heard exactly the opposite. This is why we need a clarification from Oveur.

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Originally by: Jacob Majestic

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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I'm not exactly sure of that. I've heard that new players can't accept escrows and money, and I've heard exactly the opposite. This is why we need a clarification from Oveur.

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If RMR is going in this Tuesday, we need to have clarification right now so that the changes can be properly debated. MK2 ships have been debated for weeks. A more fundamental change like this trial account nerf should not slide in in the 11th hour.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Its to late changes get implemented tommorow.This debate can wait after new years once everyone is sober.

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They don't patch on Mondays.

And I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for a clarification from Oveur.

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Its to late changes get implemented tommorow.This debate can wait after new years once everyone is sober.

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They don't patch on Mondays.

And I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for a clarification from Oveur.

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Than wait you've asked enough

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2005 17:31:16

Originally by: konkord

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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take a clue troll, more then one person is telling you to STFU.

you are ranting and whining, not go away, don't go away mad, just go away.

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Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

Post with your main and I might pay an ounce of attention.

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I have had quite a olot of respect for you, Dark, you've said some really interesting points which i feel reflect the gameplay of eve.

Now, i fear, your coming across a bit too much of a tit. Whats the *****? why i have you turned troll-like?!

Dont argue with people?! its not debate like, it doesnt get us anywhere... your just arguing for arguings sake. STFU with all you forum arrogance, this aint like you. i dont like it.

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I'm not arguing. I'm attempting to debate the issue.

The only reason I'm forced to post like this is because people are trolling in this thread. If people didn't constantly break the forum rules by name-calling, telling people to STFU, and running around whining, I wouldn't have to do this.

You're just adding to the problem.

If you don't have an opinion to debate, don't post. Its that simple.

The only thing I've asked for is a simple, couple-sentence clarification from Oveur. That's it. I didn't ask for trolls to descend and start feasting on my posts.

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Its to late changes get implemented tommorow.This debate can wait after new years once everyone is sober.

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Originally by: Azuriel Talloth

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I can see why most MMO devs don't openly discuss with the player base.

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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You are not entitled to ANYTHING from CCP in how they choose to run THEIR business.

sooooo, it is back your mouth, and the lack of your ability to shut it on a subject that Oveur has already explained.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Pantheii

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Its to late changes get implemented tommorow.This debate can wait after new years once everyone is sober.

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They don't patch on Mondays.

And I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for a clarification from Oveur.

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Than wait you've asked enough

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I am waiting.

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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...you demanded, you did not ask, you whined to gain readers support and that failed too...you refused to accept what CCP has choosen as a course of action, when it has absolutly nothing to do with you, and that seems to bother you, that YOU are not the center of Oveur's attention...

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Originally by: Makhan

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good god give it a rest, CCP knows what they are doing here!

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Originally by: Jacob Majestic

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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...you demanded, you did not ask, you whined to gain readers support and that failed too...you refused to accept what CCP has choosen as a course of action, when it has absolutly nothing to do with you, and that seems to bother you, that YOU are not the center of Oveur's attention...

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How do you suppose the community would react if the MK2 changes weren't made in the open but were instead dropped on the community three days before patch day? That's a move I associate more with SOE than CCP, and I'm sure the community would react accordingly.

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2005 15:19:34

Originally by: Oveur

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2005 14:54:38

Originally by: Oveur

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Originally by: Deja Thoris

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I think what they are doing with the trial accounts is great.

Sure theres work arounds. But what has been implemented will stop the worst of the abuse.

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Spot on. Of course there are workarounds, but it requires you to at least move to do it now. More to come.

And does it affect trial accounts converting to subscription? Of course it does, but it's the lesser of two evils. I'd rather have less subs than the abuse going rampant.

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I don't see how this is going to help stop any sort of abuse. It will simply shaft newbies.

EVE grabbed me in the first place because it had a truly unlimited trial. It will now have a trial that completely prevents a new player from even hauling his ore, let alone working with friends, etc. Might as well just cut it down to a one-day trial

I personally am going to stop promoting EVE if this happens because it'll be ridiculously hard to get people to catch on if they find they have to pay to even fly an industrial ship. They won't like the fact that they can't try more than a tiny percentage of the content of the game.

Trust me Oveur, this is phenomenally stupid.

Now if you could explain how this would actually help stop abuse...

P.S. In order to stop abuse, you have to be proactive. You're simply trying easy solutions, which in the end will do absolutely nothing. You need to either get a much larger group of GMs out there with powerful database search tools to help work against ISK sellers and the like, or to revamp mining to make it much harder to farm. Anything simpler is simply not going to cut it, and will have unintended consequences.

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Usually I listen to you, but you just crossed a very fine line.

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Are you going to answer my question? As in how will this stop abuse?

I really don't see newbies liking a nice little popup box that says "TRIAL ACCOUNTS CAN'T DO THIS."

Your entire idea here is a complete non-sequitor to the real issue. You're damming a creek to stop the flood of a river.

Ignoring the people telling you that your idea will fail does not stop it from failing.

If you want me and the rest of the playerbase to agree with you, you should give us an explanation. This should include the same statistics you are using to make your decision.

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He should ban you off the forums for being an arse.

STFU and pay attention, CCP will handle things the way CCP wants to, not how YOU dictate to them.

You are a classic case of a person that thinks they are far more important then they ever were, or will be in the organization...you are a subscriber, not a CCP shareholder or employee.

Now go pout and suck your thumb like a baby and think it over.

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Originally by: Balrathee

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So glade someone finaly said what needed to be said :)

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Balrathee

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So glade someone finaly said what needed to be said :)

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I think alts should be banned from posting on the forums.

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Originally by: Dario Wall

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DS, shut up. You have posted some 40+ times on this topic. That's atleast 1/3 of all the posts. I think most of the others in here would agree with me in telling you to stop speaking and let others talk about the topic.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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CCP knows that the best way to avoid player backlash is to explain its decisions.

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Originally by: kieron

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As all the participants in this thread already know, we put some limitations on trial accounts to stop some of the abuses trial accounts were generating. We know the new trial account restrictions are going to cost us subscribers. However, if we lose 5 subscriptions because of a limited trial, prevent the creation of new 20 trial accounts for abuse, free up a chunk of GM time because they don't have to investigate petitions on those 20 accounts, and retain 5 veteran players because of the changes made, mission accomplished.

We are not going to rest on our laurels with just these changes to trial accounts and are looking at other options. The problem is, no matter what we do will have an effect on incoming trial players. Limiting the number of trial accounts per IP address will have an effect on location University dorms and internet cafes. Requiring proof of payment, such as entering credit card or other payment information, will cut out those that can only pay for their accounts by ETCs and GTCs. The list of cause and effect goes on and on.

We feel the limitations placed on trial accounts return the best results for the least impact. If it turns out to be the opposite, we will discuss revising the changes. We have reversed design changes in the past and if the circumstances warrant, will do so in the future.

As I said before here and in other threads, we are continuing to investigate solutions where trial players can enjoy EVE, but prevent trial account abuses at the same time. We are investigating other areas where we can have a positive impact on macro mining and ISK farming without negatively impacting non-abusive players.

Will we be able to stop it 100%? Nope, but we are sure going to try to stop as much as we can and keep the EVE play experience intact.

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Originally by: Azuriel Talloth

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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CCP knows that the best way to avoid player backlash is to explain its decisions.

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Originally by: kieron

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As all the participants in this thread already know, we put some limitations on trial accounts to stop some of the abuses trial accounts were generating. We know the new trial account restrictions are going to cost us subscribers. However, if we lose 5 subscriptions because of a limited trial, prevent the creation of new 20 trial accounts for abuse, free up a chunk of GM time because they don't have to investigate petitions on those 20 accounts, and retain 5 veteran players because of the changes made, mission accomplished.

We are not going to rest on our laurels with just these changes to trial accounts and are looking at other options. The problem is, no matter what we do will have an effect on incoming trial players. Limiting the number of trial accounts per IP address will have an effect on location University dorms and internet cafes. Requiring proof of payment, such as entering credit card or other payment information, will cut out those that can only pay for their accounts by ETCs and GTCs. The list of cause and effect goes on and on.

We feel the limitations placed on trial accounts return the best results for the least impact. If it turns out to be the opposite, we will discuss revising the changes. We have reversed design changes in the past and if the circumstances warrant, will do so in the future.

As I said before here and in other threads, we are continuing to investigate solutions where trial players can enjoy EVE, but prevent trial account abuses at the same time. We are investigating other areas where we can have a positive impact on macro mining and ISK farming without negatively impacting non-abusive players.

Will we be able to stop it 100%? Nope, but we are sure going to try to stop as much as we can and keep the EVE play experience intact.

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There ya go

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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Patchnotes

in there u can read this.

In an effort to curb Trial account abuse, Trial accounts are no longer able to donate ISK to other accounts, nor create courier or escrow contracts.

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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mk2 changes have nothing to do with a trial account, since the trial account wont be able to fly one...

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Originally by: Haulsalot

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trial accounts are being handled as CCP has choosen, and it will not effect vet accounts, unless they were exploiting the trial accounts for their own gains (which CCP wants to stop also)

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