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Capt Lynch
Miner Intimidation
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 14:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Some of this needs a translation as Capt Lynch doesn't really speak english.
Black Legion training corp= Black legion member multiboxing/ice mining in high sec. Black Legion war deccing= this guys alt corp war deccing James whilst the entire rest of Black Legion fell over laughing at the guy making an idiot over himself. 50 million isk= 2 ships missing an ice cycle.
So basically a guy missed 2 mining cycles, has temper tantrum, wardecs without any research and then gets laughed at. I am sure however the mightly Black Legion appreciate the white knighting here though :).
Apologies for the misunderstanding. I presumed that the black legion alt was inside a training corp for Black Legion. I saw the same thing done during a brief stint in the Null sec alliance, United Pod Services.
Either way, removing the exploit used to avoid the wardec and adding the changes outlined to the NPC corps would make High sec that little bit more dangerous and would encourage training of PVP skills before going onto mining.
As for the comment that I don't speak english. I am attempting to get CCP to take notice and make a high sec change that the most PVP'ers and James 315's little gang want. As such, please keep the trolling to a minimum as I doubt CCP development will bother to read a thread that was locked for trolling. |

De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
1733
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Just to clarify - this is not an exploit. In fact, CCP have, on several occasions, said that dropping a corporation at any time is pretty much working at as intended. The fact that it happens to be done at an inconvenient time for you (or anyone else) does not trump the player's right to leave a corp they no longer wish to be a part of.
Also, and I don't know how many times I have said this over the years, you CANNOT force people to PvP. You can inflict PvP on them, but you can't force them to reciprocate. Even if you force them to stay locked into a corporation, you can't force them to actually participate in a war - jump clones are an amazing thing, as are alts.
You do have options open to you: gank them. Bump them back. Infiltrate spies into the corporations, find out where they will be operating on a given day/week, and don't be there. Find out who's supplying them and interrupt THEIR training/logistics operations. Declaring war is actually the least creative way of solving the problem. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |

Capt Lynch
Miner Intimidation
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Just to clarify - this is not an exploit. In fact, CCP have, on several occasions, said that dropping a corporation at any time is pretty much working at as intended. The fact that it happens to be done at an inconvenient time for you (or anyone else) does not trump the player's right to leave a corp they no longer wish to be a part of.
Also, and I don't know how many times I have said this over the years, you CANNOT force people to PvP. You can inflict PvP on them, but you can't force them to reciprocate. Even if you force them to stay locked into a corporation, you can't force them to actually participate in a war - jump clones are an amazing thing, as are alts.
You do have options open to you: gank them. Bump them back. Infiltrate spies into the corporations, find out where they will be operating on a given day/week, and don't be there. Find out who's supplying them and interrupt THEIR training/logistics operations. Declaring war is actually the least creative way of solving the problem.
I am simply pointing out a problem with the exploit and a solution. As for your many posts over the years, I've never read them. That doesn't ,mean they don't exist but I cannot know of things I have never even heard of, let alone read.
As for the options you have stated, the targets of the attacks are usually not equipped for PVP, be it ganking or awoxing, nor are they able to spy on a corp that only allows the founder to be a member. Bumping also doesn't work that well given the speed of the bumping ships used.
While adding awoxing to NPC corps would have its problems, many players starting their account as awoxers would probably be put off by the threat of being transferred to a pirate NPC corp, given that those corps have home ops in Low/null sec.
|

Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 15:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.
Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |

Capt Lynch
Miner Intimidation
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.
Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would.
Please stay on topic. If you think my fix won't work, say what you think will instead of simply trolling.
Edit: Apologies, didn;t see that you had already.
However, this thread is not meant to tear extraction, its meant to bring such solutions to CCP's attention so they can potentially impliment them. |

xxBLACK SKULLxx 929
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
As CEO of The NODD & member of the CODE. Alliance I fully support this thread. I'll reframe from friendly banter at this time.
Making it that the wardec following the character for 7 days is the best idea imo.
Black 929
and cry less about being bumped. If I or any of my guys would have been there you would have got ganked. |

Capt Lynch
Miner Intimidation
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
xxBLACK SKULLxx 929 wrote:As CEO of The NODD & member of the CODE. Alliance I fully support this thread. I'll reframe from friendly banter at this time.
Making it that the wardec following the character for 7 days is the best idea imo.
Black 929
and cry less about being bumped. If I or any of my guys would have been there you would have got ganked.
Never been bumped, black. You must have me confused with another player...Miner intimidations mining ops are wormhole based and all high sec operations are usually war ops against targetted corporations. |

Soylent Jade
New Order Logistics CODE.
37
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
It should always be dangerous to undock, but CCP doesn't want to drive carebears from the game, nor should they. You can't force people to fight, even in a PvP first game like this, and constant, inescapable war decs are just going to make people quit the game. Easy for the wolves to say "good!", but it's not us losing money when carebears quit. CCP is a business first, and not many pure FFA PVP MMOs are successful.
My suggestion would be first 30 days stays as is and you are in whatever NPC corp you would normally be in as a nooby that has war dec/AWOX protection.
After 30 days (if you don't voluntarily leave sooner), you are dumped into a secondary faction based (but not faction warfare) NPC corp that can we wardecced. These would be the same corps people dropping from player corps would go into. Of course, such a corp would probably be big enough that only rich corps/alliances could afford a war dec, and that would be really bad news to people who don't want to PvP. I guess if you don't want to be in a wardecced NPC corp you could pay the 1.6M ISK and make a player corp to escape the war dec on the NPC corp or join an active player corp. You do have 1.6M ISK to spare after playing for 30 days, don't you?
I doubt CCP would *ever* let NPC corp members freely attack each other, even with a sec status hit/auto transfer out to a pirate NPC corp once your sec status is too low. I can only imagine how badly that would be abused.
TBH I'd be happy with just having a war dec follow any member that leaves a corp under war dec for 7 days. Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time
minerbumping.com |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
973
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
This mechanic doesn't need to be removed, it's awesome for tears collecting and it works !!
Hint move to null sec, no more issues with alt corps, neutral boost/falcon alts, wardecs and blahblahblah. Kill everything in your overview it's not blue/green/purple
No problem to solve, option available: check
Op you're doing it wrong. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Goldensaver
ArTech Expeditions
202
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
xxBLACK SKULLxx 929 wrote:As CEO of The NODD & member of the CODE. Alliance I fully support this thread. I'll reframe from friendly banter at this time.
Making it that the wardec following the character for 7 days is the best idea imo.
Black 929
and cry less about being bumped. If I or any of my guys would have been there you would have got ganked. Who are you anyways? I have a miner character who I mine with semi-AFK, and I've never seen you, or anyone else. I've never had a suicide gank against me. You all seem rather impotent to me, incapable of policing most of highsec...
And no, my miner doesn't mine in the same area as this character. I want to see if you'll actually step up and work on policing highsec properly. So please, come and find my miner. |

Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold. |

xxBLACK SKULLxx 929
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apologizes OP I thought this was a carry over from Minerbumping.com .
Black 929
As for who I'm am. All you need to know is that I gank in High-sec. But lets try to stay on topic. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
110
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Capt Lynch wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.
Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would. Please stay on topic. If you think my fix won't work, say what you think will instead of simply trolling. Edit: Apologies, didn;t see that you had already. However, this thread is not meant to tear extraction, its meant to bring such solutions to CCP's attention so they can potentially impliment them.
You should check out the "Join the ISD" threads if you want to be a forum cop. I bet reading comprehension is on the requirements list though.
tl;dr you're not the boss of me. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |

Capt Lynch
Miner Intimidation
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
xxBLACK SKULLxx 929 wrote:Apologizes OP I thought this was a carry over from Minerbumping.com .
Black 929
As for who I'm am. All you need to know is that I gank in High-sec. But lets try to stay on topic.
Agreed. Please stay on the topic if you do not have an idea or counter arguement to contribute.
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Capt Lynch wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.
Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would. Please stay on topic. If you think my fix won't work, say what you think will instead of simply trolling. Edit: Apologies, didn;t see that you had already. However, this thread is not meant to tear extraction, its meant to bring such solutions to CCP's attention so they can potentially impliment them. You should check out the "Join the ISD" threads if you want to be a forum cop. I bet reading comprehension is on the requirements list though. tl;dr you're not the boss of me.
Keep on topic please. I never said I was the boss of you and I definately didn't say I was a 'forum cop'. I just do not want to see this forum descend into a thread of trolls and insults.
My misread of your first one was a mistake, one many people make on forums
Do you have any ideas to make it so NPC wardecs wouldn;t be abused? |

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1563
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 23:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Imagine the tears from the risk averse baddies if their ability to quickly and cheaply avoid wardecs was removed
this will never happen, unfortunately
Might as well make like James and use it to our own advantage. The carebears made this bed, now they can lie in it. |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
110
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 23:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Laendra wrote:I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold.
A one time killright the guy can burn off at Planet X in a velator with a friend is no solution. Even if it is only towards the corp that made the wardec, a one time kill isn't "fair" either. Just cruise around doing your business in a venture or atron until you get popped once. Who cares.
Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1563
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 00:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Laendra wrote:I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold. A one time killright the guy can burn off at Planet X in a velator with a friend is no solution. Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires.
I think even a more limited timer (why not go with the often used 24 hour one, for example) in which they are still valid targets is enough.
The penalty for trashing an entire corp and starting again should be high though - bump the cost of forming a corp up to 50m at the very least so it's in line with war decs |

Malcolm Shinhwa
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
111
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 03:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sorry Gunslinger, I thought I got the edit in before anyone had even seen it. I don't think it changes your point, but I kind of feel bad. I have 5 different chars that I play. This may be my main, or maybe not. I have no idea. |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 04:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:bears want one set of rules for themselves, and another set for everyone else
some bears....
OP is not representative of the bear population.
Some would trade in sec status to kill the bumper for giggles and grins.
Others would counter bump him with another ship.
And the really smart bears learned mining sucked ass and went to mission running, exploring, etc.
Also industrialists is a bad example. Those who whine would be idiots that don't represent the indy profession. Smart ones have the trade hub alt perma docked in the trade hub, inventors/builders permadocked in station/pos and the haulers are neut or straight npc corp. This would not be a empire trademark either. I had a neut hauler take my 0.0 goodies to jita. this is also how most corp/alliance moon goo stuff gets to jita as well. Not many want to feed the 4-4 nutswingers fat multibliion isk moon goo kills for some odd reason... |

Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 06:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:[quote=Laendra]
...
Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires.
Maybe deccing corps should be a bit less reckless in picking names to dec. Even in other threads, mercs have mentioned researching target corps and pilots, making sure they're not the type or likely to drop/disband to avoid the dec before paying out. Don't [wardec] what you can't afford to [miss].
In addition, It's been said before and gets repeated in threads of this nature. Wardecs are against the corp, not the members or players. If that was the case, then ways to keep selected individuals perma-harassed/griefed would be abused.
Repeated even more than anything else on these wardec threads, you cannot force your methods or vision of playing onto someone else. If you really have it out for some pilots, there have been suggested ways to still inflict pvp on them, such as suicide gank. But you cannot force someone to undock to fight, or lock them into corps to stay under an unwanted dec.
|

Soelent
Radiant core construction Green Alien Growth
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 20:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
why dont we simply employ the laws of physics into this.. its a simple fix (more or less) for CCP..
if a small object running at high speed hits a large object traveling slowely, laws of conservation of momentum, etc..
Similar to the analogy of you running into a train (end on)... you would not impart enough energy to move the train very much.. if at all.. but you would bounce off..
now imagine a little frigate or cruiser hitting a huge mining ship, and liken it to the above analogy of you, running into a train.. (retriever 20millionkg, vs say, a catalyst at 1.5..)
dont need to fix the wardec, just refine the bumping physics he would have to rock up in a carrier with 5 MWDs from 500kms away to get anywhere near enough momentum to bump the ship...
now isnt that a better idea - screwing over the kiddies doing the bumping, without screwing over the wardec system (completely)
i would like to see it refined tho, maybe adding a "cooldown timer" to the player, like was suggested, a 24 or 48hour killright on said player leaving corp, or a 24hour name restriction for new corps (ie you cant make a corp with the same name for 24 hours after disbanding your old corp) |

Daniel Jackson
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 21:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Capt Lynch wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Capt Lynch wrote:DrysonBennington wrote:The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with. You misread...it was Black legion who wardecced after James 315 harassed their high sec training corps industrial operation and James 315 who instantly used the exploit to didge the wardec in literally a minute and continued. What exactly was he able to do? Did he figure out a way to avoid sec status penalties? I seriously don't play enough in high sec to know the details of his harassment. James 315 is that minerbumper idiot who thinks he controlls High sec. He bumped all their ice miners away mid cycle and tried to extort them...when they wardecced him, he simply carried out the exploit, avoiding the wardec, keeping his corp and costing Black Legion 50 million isk...all in the space of 1 minute...and he can carry this exploit out as many times as he wants if he is again wardecced how about a way to Anchor our ships o-o, we already can anchor cans so why not ships I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!! |

Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Daniel Jackson wrote:how about a way to Anchor our ships o-o, we already can anchor cans so why not ships
I had posted that feature/suggestion at least once before. Where the mining ship can "deploy" like a rorqual, basically multiplying its mass and changing velocity to 0. Putting it on a cycle timer would increase your risk to suicide ganks, but would prevent the harassment of the bumping by these idiots.
As a side note, I find those idiots doing the bumping rather amusing, in that they have found a way to ruin the enjoyment of others in the game, completely within the defined mechanics of the game, and have been gathering many m-¦ of tears in the process. If they weren't highsec wusses that won't pvp, I'd say they were goon material.
|

WindRode
M.I.M.M.S The Watchmen.
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 09:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
You cannot stop a player leaving a corp. or stop a corp being wound up, but the simple fix is that a Wardec should also be attached to a corp's members. Any player in a corp that has been wardec'd should remain a valid War Target untill the wardec is dropped by the corp that declared the war.
If the player leaves the Corp and goes to a NPC Corp, then the player takes the WD with them, but it does not affect the rest of the NPC corp unless they fleet with the player holding the Wardec. Additionally, make it so that you can Wardec and individual Alt.
Simple and fixes the exploit |

Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
452
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
Capt Lynch wrote:This is a problematic exploit that was no doubt requested by players sick of getting wardecced, which is a way of life in EVE. However, it is getting out of control as several characters, most famously James 315 (his employment history is proof of this exploit if compared against wardecs sent against his character and the corp named) use it to avoid the concequences that is boasted all over EVE. For people using this exploit, predominantly one-man corporations they are able to harass, grief and gank without the worry of a wardec thanks to the ability to simply close and instantly open an identical corp, therefore nullifying the wardec and costing the deccer 50 million isk and then continuing with the actions that caused the wardec. This exploit needs to be removed or modified so players cannot instantly close and reset their corp without some kind of penalty that would actively discourage such action. Players that anger other playermade corps need to take their medicine and equally must also be able to attack other corps without the annoyance of their target simply resetting their corp and avoiding the dec. This exploit's removal may make high sec a little more dangerous for the corps that are just beginning, but thats EVE for you. People will always want to kick over your sandcastle or burn your corp, be you just a small time mining corp or James 315 himself.
My suggestion always was. When you are at wardec.. and you want to close your corp.. you need to pay 100M isk to the part that started the war upon you. |

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Its hilerious who mich Impact James 315 does have...
Hey, People listen quitting a Corp while in War is just a stupid mechanic, CCP should change this. The End. |

Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
768
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
My suggestion always was. When you are at wardec.. and you want to close your corp.. you need to pay 100M isk to the part that started the war upon you.
doesnt really help because of alt CEO's
War decs aren't useful for attacking individuals, u war dec the corp not the player. try ganking his stabber, at least with his bounty u'll get small payments for it lol.
its widely regarded that many ice miners are botters and afk miners, so each one that is griefed helps my own mining toon.  There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
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